Concerned/Trying to Understand the Logic

[Gen 22:14]

Hi All,

I have a problem to pose and would like some input. I have been wondering for several days now how a publically professed anti-Christian, anti-God forum could be part of Christian forums? Now, I do understand that the idea to evangelize is prevalent here and that the intent is to do good. However, I feel it is grossly inappropriate to include it as a full fledged part of a wonderful, ecumenical Christian message board.

Ok, now the obvious answer is it is not MY message board so the decision is not mine to make. That's a given. But what is also a given is that we in some small way "appear" to be aligning ourselves with atheists, ignostics, pagans and a few I suspect by their comments to be plain ol' satanists. I feel this is a serious problem for a few reasons.

Primarily, I would like to mention the fact that "evil" is very real. If it were not so then there would be no such place as Hell. Opening a conduit to evil (devil worshippers) can and probably has had serious ramifications. Don't know if there is such a thing as cyper space possession, but I bet there is!

I am just wondering if there is not a safer way to share the Good News? Please understand, I am not questioning the sincere motive to evangelize. What I am wondering is if there is not another, more appropriate medium to use that is less potentially harmful.

Besides the very real danger of opening the door to evil, there is the subliminal message we are sending out. I mean, listen, so many people out there are sincerely searching for The Truth that is Our Lord Jesus. I can only imagine what they might think if they were to stumble upon that board first! Just imagine trying to share Christ with a Jew after having Hitler to dinner on a nightly basis. Do you think our message would be believable?

Again, I really would like to say that the motive of the board admin is indeed admirable. I am in no way slamming them or their very real desire to evangelize. I just worry about the greater good.

Thanks for listening,
Donna

 

[4Jesus4ever]

Hi All,

I have a problem to pose and would like some input. I have been wondering for several days now how a publically professed anti-Christian, anti-God forum could be part of Christian forums? Now, I do understand that the idea to evangelize is prevalent here and that the intent is to do good. However, I feel it is grossly inappropriate to include it as a full fledged part of a wonderful, ecumenical Christian message board.

Ok, now the obvious answer is it is not MY message board so the decision is not mine to make. That's a given. But what is also a given is that we in some small way "appear" to be aligning ourselves with atheists, ignostics, pagans and a few I suspect by their comments to be plain ol' satanists. I feel this is a serious problem for a few reasons.

Primarily, I would like to mention the fact that "evil" is very real. If it were not so then there would be no such place as Hell. Opening a conduit to evil (devil worshippers) can and probably has had serious ramifications. Don't know if there is such a thing as cyper space possession, but I bet there is!

I am just wondering if there is not a safer way to share the Good News? Please understand, I am not questioning the sincere motive to evangelize. What I am wondering is if there is not another, more appropriate medium to use that is less potentially harmful.

Besides the very real danger of opening the door to evil, there is the subliminal message we are sending out. I mean, listen, so many people out there are sincerely searching for The Truth that is Our Lord Jesus. I can only imagine what they might think if they were to stumble upon that board first! Just imagine trying to share Christ with a Jew after having Hitler to dinner on a nightly basis. Do you think our message would be believable?

Again, I really would like to say that the motive of the board admin is indeed admirable. I am in no way slamming them or their very real desire to evangelize. I just worry about the greater good.

Thanks for listening,
Donna

I personally feel, God forgive me if I'm wrong, that a lot of atheists have been at one time members of Churches of various denominations. Somewhere along the line some traumatic event or some questions were raised that were not answered correctly by Christians that are confused themselves. (this is only for them; to whom this does not apply please do not respond)

I feel that we as Christians should learn and humble ourselves before God and pray for the wisdom and understanding to understand his word. Therefore we as Christians need to learn ourselves first, before we try to evangelize atheists and others. Putting an atheist forum with people that are not True atheists but those that denounce Christianity is a mistake. We have to realize that a lot of Christians do not know enough about their own faith to make a difference and that is truly sad. It is such a wonderful thing that they are missing and those other people that fell and are falling from the faith because they are so disillusioned as to what Christianity teaches: LOVE! That is the TRUE teaching that the entire New Testament displays.

A lot of atheists have hardened their hearts because of this evil secular society we live in.
Others object to certain words of Jesus because they feel they are not strong enough to follow him: "If you LOVE Me you will follow My commandments." That is hard for people that enjoy living in sin and are engulfed in the pleasures of the flesh.

In the words of the Scriptures:


Mark 6:52 - for they did not understand about the loaves, but their hearts were hardened.

Mark 8:17 - And being aware of it, Jesus said to them, "Why do you discuss the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet perceive or understand? Are your hearts hardened?

John 12:40 - "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they should see with their eyes and perceive with their heart, and turn for me to heal them."

Romans 9:18 - So then he has mercy upon whomever he wills, and he hardens the heart of whomever he wills.


Romans 11:25 - Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery, brethren: a hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles come in,

2 Corinthians 3:14 - But their minds were hardened; for to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.

Hebrews 3:8 - do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, on the day of testing in the wilderness,

Hebrews 3:13 - But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called "today," that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

Hebrews 3:15 - while it is said, "Today, when you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion."


Also we should keep in mind that for those whose hearts are stone the words of Jesus again:
"Matthew 7:6 - "Do not give dogs what is holy; and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under foot and turn to attack you.

I just want to pray with my brothers and sisters in Christ

God grant us the serenity to accept the things we cannot change
The courage to change the things we can
And the wisdom to know the difference. AMEN

 

[Christy4Christ]

This is very personal to me and I am a little shaken by an experience I had in that forum last night so I will not comment in detail.

I will say that both of your posts were very good.

 

[Miss Shelby]

Hi All,

I have a problem to pose and would like some input. I have been wondering for several days now how a publically professed anti-Christian, anti-God forum could be part of Christian forums? Now, I do understand that the idea to evangelize is prevalent here and that the intent is to do good. However, I feel it is grossly inappropriate to include it as a full fledged part of a wonderful, ecumenical Christian message board.

Ok, now the obvious answer is it is not MY message board so the decision is not mine to make. That's a given. But what is also a given is that we in some small way "appear" to be aligning ourselves with atheists, ignostics, pagans and a few I suspect by their comments to be plain ol' satanists. I feel this is a serious problem for a few reasons.

Primarily, I would like to mention the fact that "evil" is very real. If it were not so then there would be no such place as Hell. Opening a conduit to evil (devil worshippers) can and probably has had serious ramifications. Don't know if there is such a thing as cyper space possession, but I bet there is!

I am just wondering if there is not a safer way to share the Good News? Please understand, I am not questioning the sincere motive to evangelize. What I am wondering is if there is not another, more appropriate medium to use that is less potentially harmful.

Besides the very real danger of opening the door to evil, there is the subliminal message we are sending out. I mean, listen, so many people out there are sincerely searching for The Truth that is Our Lord Jesus. I can only imagine what they might think if they were to stumble upon that board first! Just imagine trying to share Christ with a Jew after having Hitler to dinner on a nightly basis. Do you think our message would be believable?

Again, I really would like to say that the motive of the board admin is indeed admirable. I am in no way slamming them or their very real desire to evangelize. I just worry about the greater good.

Thanks for listening,
Donna

For the most part, I do not see evil when encountering nonChristians on this board.

I think we can give the devil more attention than he is worthy of by worrying if he is going to jump out from around the next corner.

That's not to say that some things I have seen are not disturbing, but overall I would say we are just dealing with other people who do not happen to share our Christian beliefs, and if we're secure in our faith we should not view them as a threat. Or at least, speaking for myself, I do not.

The greater good? An atheist reconverted to Christianity recently, a regular in the Apologetics Forum. We don't see it too often, but to me,that's the greater good.

Michelle

 

[Michelina]

Hi, Donna. I just saw a post yesterday that said that the poster had been brought from atheism back to the Church via that forum. I suppose it's for this possibility that Erwin established that forum.

 

[Christy4Christ]

For the most part, I do not see evil when encountering nonChristians on this board.

I think we can give the devil more attention than he is worthy of by worrying if he is going to jump out from around the next corner.

That's not to say that some things I have seen are not disturbing, but overall I would say we are just dealing with other people who do not happen to share our Christian beliefs, and if we're secure in our faith we should not view them as a threat. Or at least, speaking for myself, I do not.

The greater good? An atheist reconverted to Christianity recently, a regular in the Apologetics Forum. We don't see it too often, but to me,that's the greater good.

Michelle

Shelby, but when I asked the question to a 17 year old kid about what made him turn away from Christianity, he told me that it happened right here at CF on that board. He said he came here to spread the word about Christ and ended up not beleiving in Him anymore after losing a debate with an Athiest.

This is no secret as it is posted in a thread on GA.

There is also a comment there that I find disturbing and that was "A lot of people are led away from the Lord on this board"

 

[Gen 22:14]

For the most part, I do not see evil when encountering nonChristians on this board.

I think we can give the devil more attention than he is worthy of by worrying if he is going to jump out from around the next corner.

That's not to say that some things I have seen are not disturbing, but overall I would say we are just dealing with other people who do not happen to share our Christian beliefs, and if we're secure in our faith we should not view them as a threat. Or at least, speaking for myself, I do not.

The greater good? An atheist reconverted to Christianity recently, a regular in the Apologetics Forum. We don't see it too often, but to me,that's the greater good.

Michelle

I'm so sorry I can't share your enthusiasm, however, I still see the potential for many newbies to get the wrong idea about what we believe and how ardent we are in our faith. My point is that when someone is searching for the Truth, we need to provide a clear, concise understanding. By confusing the Christian message by bundling it together with all kinds of arbitrary beliefs is confusing to say the least.

Now, as to MY faith, it is strong, BUT it is not MY faith I am concerned with. I still believe that there is a difference, a HUGE difference between ministering to the lost and socializing with them. After all, let's tell it like it is! They are saying horrendous things about God, worse things about Jesus, and they are getting away with it. This is a far cry from Jesus dining with sinners. He never would have tolerated anyone speaking blasphemies against His Father. Nor do I!

I guess I am saying is that IF non-Christians are to be allowed to post on a Christian board, they should be monitored at least to the extent that our members are censored. If we get accused of slamming because we can't accept their non-faith, why are they allowed to slam our God? Bad practice.

In truth,
Donna

 

[nyj]

The General Apologetics Forum is not for everyone.

 

[Christy4Christ]

I agree it isn't. What I would propose if I might be so bold, is that the rules of what non-christians could actually say be a little stricter. Has anyone been there and seen the absolutley terrible things they say there about Jesus?

Maybe I missed something and there is a rule? I think they are seriously pushing their beliefs on others while we are encouraged not to do that to them.

 

[nyj]

Like I said... General Apologetics is not for everyone. CF has rules about blasphemy, and stuff that is over the top is edited out. I should know, I moderate the forum. I think people need to understand that some of them are very upset about how Christianity has treated them... either while they were Christians or after they became atheists. They sometimes take this out on us. For us, this has to become a situation of turn the other cheek. Also, there are quite a few Christians in General Apologetics who really, IMO, have no business being in there because they're either too rude to the atheists, further alienating them, they argue with other Christians or they just aren't able to convey Christianity in the proper terms to get the atheists to think about it seriously.

 

[myrna]

Interesting enough today during Mass we had a sermon about hardening of the heart, and what the priest said was that harmony was when belief and actions were one, but if a person believed one way and acted out another way, sooner or later one of two things would happen. Either the person's evil actions would win out and his beliefs would change to match his evil actions; or his beliefs would win out and his evil actions would be amended.

 

[Debi1967]

Debiwebi you resemble my image of the ideal Christian...one who resembles Christ.

I moved this from the GA forum and this person is an Athiest...This had to be the most beautiful compliment I could have gotten from anyone. But it meant so much considering it was coming from an Atheist.
I personally do not frequent that forum anymore at all but this thread in particular caught my interest because of something personal. What I have done in there though is carefully stay away from debate but still at times state my beliefs on certain things. This was the answer I got for doing just that. Apologetics is very hard to do and to stay objective, which you have to do I have learned because of the people you are dealing with. They need to be listened to and not ignored just as you would not want to be ignored by them. So to a certain extent it means taking in a certain amount of knowledge to see their point of view, so that you can properly know how to rebutt it.
One of my favorites which they cannot argue with is that they cannot disprove God's existence just as I cannot prove it to them. When asked today if I would then argue doctrine with one of them I answered Yes to it but I also said that I would not argue the doctrine of His existence or Creation. Yes I do know since I used to be a constant in that forum exactly what he was attempting to do. So he did not choose to debate me on any other doctrine of my belief system.
Someone just asked why a thread could go on and overnight have 65 pages to it. My reply to this was because we will always have some people that instead of stating their beliefs and discussing them will continue to believe that they can change a person and make them decide to go one way or another on both sides of the fence. so they do not leave it up to a person's right to use their own free will to choose. and that this does not just apply for here it also applies unfortunately to those who argue doctrine against doctrine. Sometimes we can be even worse to each other than they ever can be to us, at least with them we know that God will protect us from evil if we are truly trying to do what he has told us to do in spreading the Godd News to them.
In Christ
Debi

 

[Gen 22:14]

Interesting enough today during Mass we had a sermon about hardening of the heart, and what the priest said was that harmony was when belief and actions were one, but if a person believed one way and acted out another way, sooner or later one of two things would happen. Either the person's evil actions would win out and his beliefs would change to match his evil actions; or his beliefs would win out and his evil actions would be amended.

If blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the one unforgivable sin, do we sin by allowing it, and not speaking up? Would this be an evil action on our part? Or in the language of sin, would not defending our faith to the fullest be a sin of omission? Sometimes, letting a sin go without trying to rebuke it can be just as bad as if we were the one committing the sin ourself.

I, for one, am not afraid to defend my faith. I am not afraid of evil because I am protected by the blood of the Lamb. I am clothed in armor and I wear His badge and shield proudly!

Jesus Lives! Alleluia!
Donna

 

[Christy4Christ]

I moved this from the GA forum and this person is an Athiest...This had to be the most beautiful compliment I could have gotten from anyone. But it meant so much considering it was coming from an Atheist.
I personally do not frequent that forum anymore at all but this thread in particular caught my interest because of something personal. What I have done in there though is carefully stay away from debate but still at times state my beliefs on certain things. This was the answer I got for doing just that. Apologetics is very hard to do and to stay objective, which you have to do I have learned because of the people you are dealing with. They need to be listened to and not ignored just as you would not want to be ignored by them. So to a certain extent it means taking in a certain amount of knowledge to see their point of view, so that you can properly know how to rebutt it.
One of my favorites which they cannot argue with is that they cannot disprove God's existence just as I cannot prove it to them. When asked today if I would then argue doctrine with one of them I answered Yes to it but I also said that I would not argue the doctrine of His existence or Creation. Yes I do know since I used to be a constant in that forum exactly what he was attempting to do. So he did not choose to debate me on any other doctrine of my belief system.
Someone just asked why a thread could go on and overnight have 65 pages to it. My reply to this was because we will always have some people that instead of stating their beliefs and discussing them will continue to believe that they can change a person and make them decide to go one way or another on both sides of the fence. so they do not leave it up to a person's right to use their own free will to choose. and that this does not just apply for here it also applies unfortunately to those who argue doctrine against doctrine. Sometimes we can be even worse to each other than they ever can be to us, at least with them we know that God will protect us from evil if we are truly trying to do what he has told us to do in spreading the Godd News to them.
In Christ
Debi

I totally agree that people should try to be gentle to the Atheists. My major concern are the people that are being led astray in there. This is a real and valid concern.

 

[MattMMMan17]

Quote:

Originally Posted by: Routerider

Debiwebi you resemble my image of the ideal Christian...one who resembles Christ.



I agree with him. But you're sure no Jewish carpenter, that's for sure.

 

[Debi1967]

I totally agree that people should try to be gentle to the Atheists. My major concern are the people that are being led astray in there. This is a real and valid concern.

Christy truthfully for as much as they brag about how many are being led astray in there to us and as much as they love to tell the story so as to rub it in our face there are 10 times more that actually are changing there icons all the time that they do not want to tell you about.....We have one right here in our forum I just forgot her name right now and she is a very young person...So we are being effective out there.
The other thing is the reason I am so humbled by that compliment was because that meant that the Holy Spirit was planting a seed in that young man and I couldn't have been any more happier at that moment than I was and still am
What a privledge........

 

[RhetorTheo]

Creating a place for the atheists here reduces the numbers who go to the other forums.

 

[Christy4Christ]

So you guys think maybe they are making it up about leading people away?

 

[Miss Shelby]

I think people need to understand that some of them are very upset about how Christianity has treated them... either while they were Christians or after they became atheists.

I think this is worth repeating. If we do not at least TRY to understand where they are coming from, what kind of a Christian witness can we be?

Michelle

 

[seebs]

I'll refrain from seriously debating here; I'd just point out that apologetics is pretty rough for most people, and I don't recommend it to most. But it does serve a purpose; we're mostly just undoing the damage done by the people who came before us, though. It takes months of debate to undo a Chick tract.