Concensus

[WarriorAngel]

Yes, women are evil. Adam ate of the fruit, so all mankind is evil.

I don't like to answer questions that use words like "equal," "equality," or "equally." They are more or less modern words that are difficult to discern their exact meaning, and the Scriptures do not speak much concerning this modern obsession with equality.

If they are not both at fault then are men less sinful??

Since all are sinful, it is a foregone conclusion that they were EQUALLY guilty.
OR is ADAM more guilty??

One was not more guilty, because both assumed the punishment equally.

mike;
AS for men being superior, I have never read that.
Women are subject to their husbands in matters of faith.
Women should submit to their husbands...BUT Here is the kicker.... men are subject to their wives too.

[bible]Ephesians 5:21[/bible]

What did Paul tell men, and how they should behave??

[bible]Ephesians 5:25[/bible]

What does that mean??
[bible]Ephesians 5:28[/bible]

Where does it say wives must love their husbands??

It doesn't because it is assumed....just as it is assumed men will be subject to their wives after he said be subject to one another.

Just as the CHURCH is subject to Christ...women are subject to their husbands...by being spotless and faithful.

THIS DOESNT MEAN men have it their way.

IF it did, then they are not loving.

Because this very important and critical part of the Bible would be moot point then.

[bible]1 Corinthians 13:4-5[/bible]

Love which is charity, does not insist on its own way.

And finally, Christ died for his Church. Christ submitted to the Apostles by washing their feet, teaching them the greatest shall be least and the least shall be greatest.

Women have equal reward, so it then....does this mean if women are subjects and the least now, that they shall be the greatest in Heaven??

Think about it.

 

[IamAdopted]

If they are not both at fault then are men less sinful??

Since all are sinful, it is a foregone conclusion that they were EQUALLY guilty.
OR is ADAM more guilty??

One was not more guilty, because both assumed the punishment equally.

mike;
AS for men being superior, I have never read that.
Women are subject to their husbands in matters of faith.
Women should submit to their husbands...BUT Here is the kicker.... men are subject to their wives too.

[bible]Ephesians 5:21[/bible]

What did Paul tell men, and how they should behave??

[bible]Ephesians 5:25[/bible]

What does that mean??
[bible]Ephesians 5:28[/bible]

Where does it say wives must love their husbands??

It doesn't because it is assumed....just as it is assumed men will be subject to their wives after he said be subject to one another.

Just as the CHURCH is subject to Christ...women are subject to their husbands...by being spotless and faithful.

THIS DOESNT MEAN men have it their way.

IF it did, then they are not loving.

Because this very important and critical part of the Bible would be moot point then.

[bible]1 Corinthians 13:4-5[/bible]

Love which is charity, does not insist on its own way.

And finally, Christ died for his Church. Christ submitted to the Apostles by washing their feet, teaching them the greatest shall be least and the least shall be greatest.

Women have equal reward, so it then....does this mean if women are subjects and the least now, that they shall be the greatest in Heaven??

Think about it.

Read the scripture in full context. For men are not in submission to their wives but are told they are to love their wife. Woman are to be submissive to thier own husbands.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I did o read it, and not just one verse, but the whole Bible.

If men love their wives as Christ loved His Church and He died for His d Church and before He died, made Himself subject to His Apostles by washing their feet...then I am taking it all into context.

Paul tells us that LOVE does NOT insist on its own way.

WOMEN BE subject as the Church is to Christ.,....[which is faithful to Him.]
[bible]Ephesians 5:24[/bible]
Maybe Its not just me that doesnt interpret it correctly, or maybe it isnt me at all that misinterprets it.

What about............??

[bible]Ephesians 5:21[/bible]

YOU didnt read what I wrote did u?

 

[WarriorAngel]

Again, if women are to be treated as the least, does this mean then...that in Heaven they are the greater?

 

[Fireinfolding]

Yes, women are evil. Adam ate of the fruit, so all mankind is evil.

Just out of curiosity, I ran the words "evil women" and came up with 0. I then ran the words "evil men" and came up with 4 verses.

We know Eve was deceived. When it came to the disobedience, its Adam who is named to that. When it comes to sin (again) its Adam who is named. When it comes to the one we all die in (again) its Adam. Yet even though the Woman was deceived it is her who is named the mother of the living. Whereas anything dead is listed in Adam.

I thought that was interesting

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[IamAdopted]

I did o read it, and not just one verse, but the whole Bible.

If men love their wives as Christ loved His Church and He died for His d Church and before He died, made Himself subject to His Apostles by washing their feet...then I am taking it all into context.

Paul tells us that LOVE does NOT insist on its own way.

WOMEN BE subject as the Church is to Christ.,....[which is faithful to Him.]
[bible]Ephesians 5:24[/bible]
Maybe Its not just me that doesnt interpret it correctly, or maybe it isnt me at all that misinterprets it.

What about............??

[bible]Ephesians 5:21[/bible]

YOU didnt read what I wrote did u?

I sure did. We as a body of believers are to be subject to one another. Husbands are the head of thier wives as Christ is the head of the Church. We are to submit to our husbands as unto the Lord in all things. For this is how we were created. Man for Gods Glory and woman for mans glory. Husband being the head and woman being the submissive. Husbands Loving thier wives as Christ loved the Church and gave Himself up for her.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Interestingly enough, I watch EWTN [Catholic network] and the priests were discussing what makes a successful marriage.

Taking scriptures in full.

And the priest said it is to work like this;
A man must treat his wife as the queen.1 Peter 3:7 And he must submit himself to please her in all things, and the woman, treats her husband like a king 1 Peter 3:6 and submits to everything as the least for him.

When both do this, both are being treated as the greater because we become the least.

Thus is a happy couple.

But when we see men usurping women's choices and ideas and happiness, they are 'insisting' on their own ways.

Thus Paul tells the wives to behave as such....for it pleases the Lord...
BUT our salvation is not dependent upon it.

The same for men, who mistreat their wives...they are not following the doctrines of love.

I have read countless of articles by Catholic men that state the same truths I speak.
Priests, and others.

This epistles was not meant to be an over lording of men to women.

Because if it does.... then the women are greater in Heaven. That is not how it is supposed to be.

BOTH are to be subject to one another. Ephesians 5:21

If both listen to Paul, and in everything he has said [about what love is for instance] then a marriage will work in perfect unity.

BUT women nor men absolutely must behave this way...for them to obtain salvation.

AS the remark passed...who wears the pants.

FOR many men love their wives as themselves Ephesians 5:28 and want to please their wives 1 Corin 7:33 ...and are in agreement and subject to their wives. Ephesians 5:21
Are they less?

They are happy with it, it doesnt make them wrong.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Just out of curiosity, I ran the words "evil women" and came up with 0. I then ran the words "evil men" and came up with 4 verses.

We know Eve was deceived. When it came to the disobedience, its Adam who is named to that. When it comes to sin (again) its Adam who is named. When it comes to the one we all die in (again) its Adam. Yet even though the Woman was deceived it is her who is named the mother of the living. Whereas anything dead is listed in Adam.

I thought that was interesting

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[icedtea]

We are to submit to our husbands as unto the Lord in all things.

I'm glad you made that clear. All things. I was submissive to my hsuband in all things, including when he told me to break the law (I ended up in jail) and when he told me to do immoral things. So I followed the bible on that.

 

[Fireinfolding]

 

[WarriorAngel]

ONE more point;

Paul doesnt insists that this be the way it is, but he advises them, so their marriage is happiness, and is like an outward sign.

MEN are NOT to call women evil, for their guilt is as great.

And men are not to insist on things...for it is by choice the women behave this way.

SHOW me where Paul tells the husbands to make women behave this way!!!

It is the woman's choice to be pleasing, not the man's to make her behave like this.

 

[Yeznik]

Again, if women are to be treated as the least, does this mean then...that in Heaven they are the greater?

Saint Mary is the first amongst Saints.

 

[Yeznik]

Its true that Eve ate the fruit first, but when God came alookin, it was Adam that was made to explain.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I'm glad you made that clear. All things. I was submissive to my hsuband in all things, including when he told me to break the law (I ended up in jail) and when he told me to do immoral things. So I followed the bible on that.

I believe this 'all things' is not as we are meant to read it, because then it makes the rest moot point.

Women are to serve God first, not man.

And the Bible says those who love someone more than God are not worthy.

I have a 'friend' who will stay home from church because her husband tells her to.

There is a danger in believing 'all' means ALL, as we see that the Bible clears says all are sinners, and yet Christ is the exception.

Plus we are not to be immoral or unlawful at the behest of our spouses or for anyone.
Good point.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Saint Mary is the first amongst Saints.

So if all women are subject to the whims of men, then men will be least in Heaven.

I would bet the Apostles treated women kindly and lovingly.

 

[Fireinfolding]

I believe this 'all things' is not as we are meant to read it, because then it makes the rest moot point.

Women are to serve God first, not man.

And the Bible says those who love someone more than God are not worthy.

I have a 'friend' who will stay home from church because her husband tells her to.

I did THAT. I was glad. I didnt really ~want to go~ so it worked for me

Both my husband (not wanting me to) and the pastor of the church were in agreement.

All things were cleared by MY HEAD-->

The dude supposedly in Authority

and my not wanting to

See all them confirmations?

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[Yeznik]

I believe that men and women are not equal. This is an inventation of Western Idealism that starts to break down roles in family and society. Now, I am not saying that men are better than women, I am saying that we are designed for 2 different roles, in society and in family. This doesn't mean that there shouldn't be any women doctors, or leaders. Again look at Mary, "May it be done to me according to your word", this applies to both men and women. But her ROLE was the Mother of our Lord, and she brought holiness to motherhood, which in the Armenian tradition, the mother of the family tries to carry this (Mary) mentality.

 

[mike1reynolds]

mike;
AS for men being superior, I have never read that.
Women are subject to their husbands in matters of faith.
Women should submit to their husbands...BUT Here is the kicker.... men are subject to their wives too.

I addressed that already.

Let me make it clear, I think that a good woman should get her way 90% of the time in a healthy relationship. Pick up your clothes, clean up your crumbs, take out the trash, etc... Men just don't care that much about these minor issues, but we are happy to live in a beautiful surrounding and happily comply on all of these minor matters.

However, that 10% where men get there way in healthy relationships is concerning the big matters. Men's minds are not nearly as encumbered by animal instincts and emotions as women's minds are, and so all world religions, especially Christianity, invest final authority in men, not women. That is why most denominations of Christianity and Judaism do not allow women to become priests or rabbis.

 

[mike1reynolds]

Its true that Eve ate the fruit first, but when God came alookin, it was Adam that was made to explain.

Ha ha! That is an interesting point. The question of who was more culpable is rather moot, since the person in authority is always more culpable. Given the argument that primary authority in society should ultimately be masculine, naturally such an argument would dictate that Adam was more culpable in the Fall.

 

[mike1reynolds]

I'm glad you made that clear. All things. I was submissive to my hsuband in all things, including when he told me to break the law (I ended up in jail) and when he told me to do immoral things. So I followed the bible on that.

What did you dad think of this guy? (Or your grandfather, or whatever male took paternal care of you as a child?)

This is from Taoism, not the Bible, but the Book of Changes says that a girl should follow one man all her life, from her father to her husband. (I almost falsely stated it was from the Bible, I tend to get phrases from the two confused on occasion, they are quite similar in much of their philosophy.)