Competition Shooting

Shane R

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Shot 115 rounds of 10mm yesterday trying to find a load that my KKM barrel and my stock barrel like.

Getting closer. 5.2gr of W231 behind a 180gr Hornady XTP is getting me closer to 2" or better at 25yds and is very soft shooting.

View attachment 199777
Here's a thought: try loading to the high end of the specs for .40 S&W. It should give you a milder 10mm load without totally wreaking havoc on the listed chamber pressures (since the casing will be quite under-filled). Also, for competition shooting, heavier bullets are almost always better. If memory serves, you can get bullets as heavy as 220gr. for that calibre.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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Here's a thought: try loading to the high end of the specs for .40 S&W. It should give you a milder 10mm load without totally wreaking havoc on the listed chamber pressures (since the casing will be quite under-filled). Also, for competition shooting, heavier bullets are almost always better. If memory serves, you can get bullets as heavy as 220gr. for that calibre.

Last weekend I again took my Serbian M-57 Tokarev out and ran about 125 rounds through it. I have been having a heck of a time getting on paper with it; despite how accurate everyone says they are; so I shot from a Caldwell bench rest; and bingo, the first 10 were on the paper at 20 yards; so it's not the gun.

Then I tried all kinds of different holds; I have put a Hogue grip sleve on it a while back and being super conscious of my tendency to pull shots down (about a foot low at 20 yards) No matter what I tried, I got less than 10 of the over 100 more rounds on the big Pistol target. still shooting low. I have, however stopped pulling left.

Short of selling it and getting a 9mm, I don't know what to do.

The pistol itself is beautifully finished, and functions flawlessly over about 700 rounds now, since brand new.

Frustration is all I can say.
 
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ChavaK

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I shot another outdoor Glock match on Sunday. I did terrible. Was so upset when I got home. Two days later they posted the results, and I actually moved up a place in the Ladies match (third out of eleven) and stayed the same in the Civilian match (9th out of 69) which made me top lady/top senior lady again which means I won another $150. I really am hoping to win a Glock though.
The weather was really hot, and most people had to drive at least an hour and a half to get to the match, so I guess none of us shot as well as usual.
 
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Shane R

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Last weekend I again took my Serbian M-57 Tokarev out and ran about 125 rounds through it. I have been having a heck of a time getting on paper with it; despite how accurate everyone says they are; so I shot from a Caldwell bench rest; and bingo, the first 10 were on the paper at 20 yards; so it's not the gun.

Then I tried all kinds of different holds; I have put a Hogue grip sleve on it a while back and being super conscious of my tendency to pull shots down (about a foot low at 20 yards) No matter what I tried, I got less than 10 of the over 100 more rounds on the big Pistol target. still shooting low. I have, however stopped pulling left.

Short of selling it and getting a 9mm, I don't know what to do.

The pistol itself is beautifully finished, and functions flawlessly over about 700 rounds now, since brand new.

Frustration is all I can say.
You need a good coach Mark: someone who will beat you up a bit over whatever bad habit you have. I once shot on the wrong target at a match and the guy next to me took it in stride while taking me to the proverbial wood-shed. No harm was done and I didn't shoot on anyone else's target again. By the way, most issues with side to side movement are trigger control related and up and down is typically either trigger control or sight picture - maybe try painting the front sight with orange or yellow nail polish.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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You need a good coach Mark: someone who will beat you up a bit over whatever bad habit you have. I once shot on the wrong target at a match and the guy next to me took it in stride while taking me to the proverbial wood-shed. No harm was done and I didn't shoot on anyone else's target again. By the way, most issues with side to side movement are trigger control related and up and down is typically either trigger control or sight picture - maybe try painting the front sight with orange or yellow nail polish.

No one beats me up more than I do my self. I have painted the sights. Sightpcture is not the issue. I have an hold High Standard Sport King with fixed sights (22) it pretty much goes where I point it every time; same for an old Webly Enfield in .38 S&W. I am trying to get together with a friend of a friend who is ex Serbian Military Police, and this is the same pistol that they carried. Having a hard time connecting with him. BTW, I have the same issue with the TT33 Tokareves.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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You need a good coach Mark: someone who will beat you up a bit over whatever bad habit you have. I once shot on the wrong target at a match and the guy next to me took it in stride while taking me to the proverbial wood-shed. No harm was done and I didn't shoot on anyone else's target again. By the way, most issues with side to side movement are trigger control related and up and down is typically either trigger control or sight picture - maybe try painting the front sight with orange or yellow nail polish.

I can keep them on big target paper if I aim two inches over the paper.
 
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Shane R

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I can keep them on big target paper if I aim two inches over the paper.
File the rear sight either more open or down. I have a relatively new Marlin .22 rifle that has a factory buckhorn and I had to open it up a bit with a little careful file work. Much improved.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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File the rear sight either more open or down. I have a relatively new Marlin .22 rifle that has a factory buckhorn and I had to open it up a bit with a little careful file work. Much improved.

Sight is very visible and looks like this:

upload_2017-8-6_9-9-14.png

If I hold this sight picture; dead centre on the bulls eye, I shoot 10 inches low, and 8 left.

If I aim so that the top of the front end of the slide is level with the top of the rear sight, and the front post is two inches above the upper right corner of a large pistol bulls eye target, I can print most of them on the paper.

Filing is not going to help me with this pistol; and I have a buyer that is willing to buy it from me for what I paid (president of my club actually), and had been looking for one for some time. It breaks my heart as it is beautifully finished, and with over 1000 rounds through it, not one single malfunction.
DSC08753.4854248.JPG

After over 1000 rounds through it and the only improvement has been that I learned how consistently badly I shoot with it (and the other shorter grip Russian and Chinese Tokareves as well).

Closer range combat style, I could likely do OK with it; but this pistol, for obvious reasons, does not qualify for IPSC shooting; and we are building our outdoor range to accommodate ISPS also.

I'm thinking CZ or more likely a NZ 75 or 85 CZ clone by Norinco. The Norincos are approved; they have forged, rather than cast steel slides and frames, parts and accessories are fully exchangable with the CZs and they are about 1/4 the price:

NZ85B-2.jpg
 
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A Realist

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I've competed in different types of competitions over the years. FT-R, NRA Rimfire Silhouette, IHMSA, and others. My most recent interest is in USPSA Steel Challenge.

I'm really into it and one of the best things about it is that the competitions are close to me. All of the others were up to 4 hours away.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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Sight is very visible and looks like this:

View attachment 203957
If I hold this sight picture; dead centre on the bulls eye, I shoot 10 inches low, and 8 left.

If I aim so that the top of the front end of the slide is level with the top of the rear sight, and the front post is two inches above the upper right corner of a large pistol bulls eye target, I can print most of them on the paper.

Filing is not going to help me with this pistol; and I have a buyer that is willing to buy it from me for what I paid (president of my club actually), and had been looking for one for some time. It breaks my heart as it is beautifully finished, and with over 1000 rounds through it, not one single malfunction.
DSC08753.4854248.JPG

After over 1000 rounds through it and the only improvement has been that I learned how consistently badly I shoot with it (and the other shorter grip Russian and Chinese Tokareves as well).

Closer range combat style, I could likely do OK with it; but this pistol, for obvious reasons, does not qualify for IPSC shooting; and we are building our outdoor range to accommodate ISPS also.

I'm thinking CZ or more likely a NZ 75 or 85 CZ clone by Norinco. The Norincos are approved; they have forged, rather than cast steel slides and frames, parts and accessories are fully exchangable with the CZs and they are about 1/4 the price:

NZ85B-2.jpg
 
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marineimaging

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I thinks you is thinking right. As long as the buyer knows the issues sell it or you will be fighting it until you do something anyway. But before you do, is there ANYWAY you can get your hands on some different ammo? I don't think it is going to make up the difference but you might not be a bad shot. A particular ammo can seriously damage a guns aim to such a degree that it is assumed the barrel is loose. If you can, try it first.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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I thinks you is thinking right. As long as the buyer knows the issues sell it or you will be fighting it until you do something anyway. But before you do, is there ANYWAY you can get your hands on some different ammo? I don't think it is going to make up the difference but you might not be a bad shot. A particular ammo can seriously damage a guns aim to such a degree that it is assumed the barrel is loose. If you can, try it first.
Ammo was the issue; all we have available is crap corrosive surplus. I did get that NZ85 and I love it.
 
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ChavaK

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Shot my first 2 gun match (PCC and handgun) a couple of weeks ago. I'm new to PCCs as I generally don't do long guns, but it was fun. Unfortunately I found out after I got to the match the battery in the red dot was almost dead and I didn't have iron sights on it. Really slowed me down, having to hunt for a small pink dot instead of a nice bright red one, but that is probably good since I'm a novice with PCC's. Looking forward to the one next month, hopefully a new battery will help things out. Hoping to get into 3 gun in the summer after I get a little more experience with the PCC and with a shotgun.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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Our present range management have decided that they want only PPC completion at this point; while I have signed up, I find IDPA more appealing for a slow old guy with aches and pains. I have joined IDPA, but the closest club where I can shoot is over an hour away.

Because the security-guard, rent-a-cops president and vice president are gung-ho for PPC, they will not let me practice until I have the PPC course. The IDPA director told me to read, understand the rules, and practice at my club; then come out for a qualifier match, and they would walk me trough it. So, I have no where to practice with a holster.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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Here's a thought: try loading to the high end of the specs for .40 S&W. It should give you a milder 10mm load without totally wreaking havoc on the listed chamber pressures (since the casing will be quite under-filled). Also, for competition shooting, heavier bullets are almost always better. If memory serves, you can get bullets as heavy as 220gr. for that calibre.
I picked up an IWI Jericho, full-size, all steel last month in .40. I am presently shooting 200 gr loaded to book max with HP38. I am shooting consistently low with it. I'm going to try some lighter bullets to see if that affects my POA much.
 
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marineimaging

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Shot my first 2 gun match (PCC and handgun) a couple of weeks ago. I'm new to PCCs as I generally don't do long guns, but it was fun. Unfortunately I found out after I got to the match the battery in the red dot was almost dead and I didn't have iron sights on it. Really slowed me down, having to hunt for a small pink dot instead of a nice bright read one, but that is probably good since I'm a novice with PCC's. Looking forward to the one next month, hopefully a new battery will help things out. Hoping to get into 3 gun in the summer after I get a little more experience with the PCC and with a shotgun.
I can relate to that for certain. Especially when using an IR Night Scope for hunting hogs. My first time out I didn't realize how quickly the batteries would be used up so even my spares were soon gone. After that I made sure to have 4-5 fully charged 8000-10000mah battery packs with me. And I also carry a spare scope and rings when I go hunting. I would hate to ruin the entire trip because the reticle ring came loose or a lens broke. And, it has happened.
 
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marineimaging

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I picked up an IWI Jericho, full-size, all steel last month in .40. I am presently shooting 200 gr loaded to book max with HP38. I am shooting consistently low with it. I'm going to try some lighter bullets to see if that affects my POA much.
Have you tried Bullseye over the HP38?
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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Have you tried Bullseye over the HP38?
No, I have not.
How do you find Bullseye when compared to other powders?
I'm cheap (LOL), and I picked up a full, 8 lb. box of HP38 from a guy who was getting out of reloading (for 150.00 Canadian; a little less than half price.) I have used VV-R320, 700 & 800X, Clays and Universal in the past (I still have a pound of clays, and a bit of 800X. I find the 700 & 800X does not meter all that well in my powder measure, and it shoots dirty. HP38 meters consistently out of my old Redding and my lee Autodisk on my Pro 1000. With the R320, I really liked it but it is twice the money of the Canadian made powders. Clays and universal were OK, but still not as clean as the HP38. You may already know this, but HP38 and Winchester 238 are the same powder in a different package.

Published data on velocities is good, yet HP38 seems to be a "softer" shooting powder.

It may be me with the new pistol, and not the loads. HP38 is working great at book max under 115 gr. copper plated Campro bullets.
 
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marineimaging

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No, I have not.
How do you find Bullseye when compared to other powders?
I'm cheap (LOL), and I picked up a full, 8 lb. box of HP38 from a guy who was getting out of reloading (for 150.00 Canadian; a little less than half price.) I have used VV-R320, 700 & 800X, Clays and Universal in the past (I still have a pound of clays, and a bit of 800X. I find the 700 & 800X does not meter all that well in my powder measure, and it shoots dirty. HP38 meters consistently out of my old Redding and my lee Autodisk on my Pro 1000. With the R320, I really liked it but it is twice the money of the Canadian made powders. Clays and universal were OK, but still not as clean as the HP38. You may already know this, but HP38 and Winchester 238 are the same powder in a different package.

Published data on velocities is good, yet HP38 seems to be a "softer" shooting powder.

It may be me with the new pistol, and not the loads. HP38 is working great at book max under 115 gr. copper plated Campro bullets.
First, my favorite powder for now is PowerPistol and 2400 but I have to agree on your assessment of HP38/Win238. They are both clean and they do take less per load, but when you look at their weight/volume ratio you get a very small amount of powder so that when you aim the gun the powder is down at the bottom of the case and ignition/burn is on the lower half of the case. My experience has been that those hotter powders which take less (for us stingy types, LOL) are also more sensitive to even the most minor deviations. The best situation is a powder that will produce the desired effects with a full case and no compression. That allows that the primer will always spark the powder in the near center and always produce the same effect regardless of the angle of the cartridge. One example of that is that Alliant 2400 will fill the .357 magnum case nearly 100 percent. It will just touch the base of a properly seated 158 grain bullet and not require compression.
 
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