Compassion for Larry Craig?

[Ohioprof]

Larry Craig will resign today, according the all the news reports. His fellow Republicans have insisted that he resign. They are throwing him overboard in a desperate attempt to prevent any further erosion in support for their party. The upcoming election is clearly looming large in their minds.

Many Democrats can barely conceal their glee over another Republican "family values" guy being exposed as a hypocrite. And he is a hypocrite, quite clearly. He is one of those Republicans who directly harm gay people by voting against our human and civil rights while secretly looking for sex with men.

But.....given that Larry Craig has suffered a stiff dose of karma, and given that Larry Craig has clearly destroyed his own career and possibly his whole life, and given that Larry Craig has caused himself to be humiliated before the entire nation and world, perhaps we can stop now and find some compassion for Larry Craig. Perhaps it's time to stop piling on him, easy as piling on seems. People on the right and the left have been piling on. Anti-gay people and people who support gay rights have been piling on, in a weird display of collective denunciation of Larry Craig, albeit for somewhat different reasons.

Larry Craig has to live with what he has done. Speaking as a gay person, I think he is going to have to come to terms with his sexual orientation, whether that is gay or bisexual. If he doesn't, his life will be miserable. He is going to have to admit to himself that he is either gay or bisexual, just to be honest and to restore integrity to his life. From there, he can make decisions about his future.

It's tempting for those of us who are gay to keep on denouncing Craig for the damage he has done to gay people by voting as he has in the Senate. And he has done damage; there is no doubt about that. But he is also a human being, a human being who is suffering right now and who will suffer further. I think the struggle for Larry Craig, to restore integrity and self-respect to his life, is just beginning.

Can we find it in ourselves to show compassion for Larry Craig in this time of darkness for him? I am not suggesting that people urge Larry Craig to repent of the imaginary sin of being gay. No....I think Larry Craig needs to accept the fact that he is either gay or bisexual, admit that openly, and live as an openly gay or bisexual man. And I think that those of us who are gay or bisexual should reach out to him as he goes through that process, not abandon him as his fellow conservative Republicans are doing. I think that is the Christian thing for us gay people, and those who support gay people, to do.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Well,

Craig pleaded guilty, got fined, and humiliated.

I really do not feel he should have resigned relative to all the other things going on. Run again ? That would be a decision he would need to make based on his chances of winning again. But since he did resign, we will never know if he could have redeemedd himself.

His resignation is more the instrument of a political rival maneuvering into his leadership postion than for what he did.

The governor of the state I live in, is being investigated for accepting a couple hundred grand in casino chips from a contractor while he was a senator. During his election he was accused of assaulting the intoxicated woman he was escorting and placing behind the wheel of her vehicle (drunk). He is being sued by the illegal alien he employed as a maid who lived in the basement. He blackmailed Delta Airlines into rehiring him when a fuel tax bill was before Congress.

Do I think Craig should have resigned ? Not relative to what the politicians are really getting away with and doing.

My governor: Jim Gibbons.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Well,

Craig pleaded guilty, got fined, and humiliated.

I really do not feel he should have resigned relative to all the other things going on. Run again ? That would be a decision he would need to make based on his chances of winning again. But since he did resign, we will never know if he could have redeemedd himself.

His resignation is more the instrument of a political rival maneuvering into his leadership postion than for what he did.

The governor of the state I live in, is being investigated for accepting a couple hundred grand in casino chips from a contractor while he was a senator. During his election he was accused of assaulting the intoxicated woman he was escorting and placing behind the wheel of her vehicle (drunk). He is being sued by the illegal alien he employed as a maid who lived in the basement. He blackmailed Delta Airlines into rehiring him when a fuel tax bill was before Congress.

Do I think Craig should have resigned ? Not relative to what the politicians are really getting away with and doing.

My governor: Jim Gibbons.

But do you think he is a right wing hypocrite, for persecuting gays, but having sex in public bathrooms on the down low ? Not atypical i would imagine.

 

[UberLutheran]

Does "schadenfreude" count as "compassion"?

 

[Zaac]

The man is gay. He can deny it, but as I said before, this whole bathroom thing is nothing new. He was in the bathroom tapping his foot and placing his hand underneath the stall door because he had successfully done it before.

Is it something for which he should be forced into resignation? Has anybody seen the rap sheets for the members of Congress? How many other congressmen are having sex with pages and have been for decades?

He was trying to get a quickie in the bathroom. Is this any different from picking someone up at a bar?

And unless kids are now walking into bathrooms looking underneath the stalls, I can't really see that angle.

Now the reason that he should resign is that he apparently is so afraid of being labeled as gay, that he would resort to this kind of behavior or possibly open himself up to outside influence in order to protect his little secret that apparently isn't that big of a secret.

The biggie for me is that he has been committing adultery. I don't trust the decision making ability or the ability to lead of any man who will cheat on his wife.

 

[Ohioprof]

The man is gay. He can deny it, but as I said before, this whole bathroom thing is nothing new. He was in the bathroom tapping his foot and placing his hand underneath the stall door because he had successfully done it before.

Is it something for which he should be forced into resignation? Has anybody seen the rap sheets for the members of Congress? How many other congressmen are having sex with pages and have been for decades?

He was trying to get a quickie in the bathroom. Is this any different from picking someone up at a bar?

And unless kids are now walking into bathrooms looking underneath the stalls, I can't really see that angle.

Now the reason that he should resign is that he apparently is so afraid of being labeled as gay, that he would resort to this kind of behavior or possibly open himself up to outside influence in order to protect his little secret that apparently isn't that big of a secret.

The biggie for me is that he has been committing adultery. I don't trust the decision making ability or the ability to lead of any man who will cheat on his wife.

Well, Zaac, I actually agree with you on most of your points here. This really isn't much different from picking someone up in a bar. He wasn't hitting on a minor.

Craig was apparently intending to commit adultery. But the Republican leaders did not throw Vitter overboard for going to a prostitute.

 

[Zaac]

But the Republican leaders did not throw Vitter overboard for going to a prostitute.

Why would they? There is so much corruption in Washington that they knew that as sure as they kick him out for that, someone would be at their door with the same allegations.

These guys are accountable to their constituents. Not their peers in Washington who are doing the same thing.

If the people of Idaho want him to resign, then he should. But they would have to put pressure on him in Washington because I don't think they can recall a seating Senator.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Craig was not trying to get a quikie in the bathroom. It is different than trying to pick someone up in a bar because we are not talking about a bathroom, but a public restroom.

The difference is that a bathroom refers to a place in a person's home (ie private property) while a public restroom by definition is not private. From several unfortunate experiences in college, I learned that you can indeed tell when there is more than one person occupying a stall in a public restroom and having sex. Most of us do not want to be exposed to that regardless of whether one is looking under the stalls or not. That is why there are laws against it.

 

[Ohioprof]

Craig was not trying to get a quikie in the bathroom. It is different than trying to pick someone up in a bar because we are not talking about a bathroom, but a public restroom.

The difference is that a bathroom refers to a place in a person's home (ie private property) while a public restroom by definition is not private. From several unfortunate experiences in college, I learned that you can indeed tell when there is more than one person occupying a stall in a public restroom and having sex. Most of us do not want to be exposed to that regardless of whether one is looking under the stalls or not. That is why there are laws against it.

Well that is true; I imagine it would be very disturbing to go to use the restroom and to find people there having sex. (Women just don't do this kind of thing, at least not based on my experience.)

However, Craig did not actually have sex in the restroom. He had not gotten to that point yet, and so he was arrested for what the officer perceived as his intent, not for actually engaging in the act. He in effect propositioned someone, or tested the waters to see if the other guy was interested; he did not have sex in the restroom. He was arrested for what his gestures were assumed to mean, not for actually having sex in a public restroom.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Well that is true; I imagine it would be very disturbing to go to use the restroom and to find people there having sex. (Women just don't do this kind of thing, at least not based on my experience.)

However, Craig did not actually have sex in the restroom. He had not gotten to that point yet, and so he was arrested for what the officer perceived as his intent, not for actually engaging in the act. He in effect propositioned someone, or tested the waters to see if the other guy was interested; he did not have sex in the restroom. He was arrested for what his gestures were assumed to mean, not for actually having sex in a public restroom.

The officer charged Craig with commiting a lewd act in a public place. While you say he was charged for not actually doing that, I suggest you look up what the charge constitutes in the jursidiction he was cited in.

Craig has good lawyers and he pleaded guilty to a lesser charge. If he was not guilty, he never would have pleaded guilty. So there you go.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

Larry Craig will resign today, according the all the news reports. His fellow Republicans have insisted that he resign. They are throwing him overboard in a desperate attempt to prevent any further erosion in support for their party. The upcoming election is clearly looming large in their minds.

Many Democrats can barely conceal their glee over another Republican "family values" guy being exposed as a hypocrite. And he is a hypocrite, quite clearly. He is one of those Republicans who directly harm gay people by voting against our human and civil rights while secretly looking for sex with men.

But.....given that Larry Craig has suffered a stiff dose of karma, and given that Larry Craig has clearly destroyed his own career and possibly his whole life, and given that Larry Craig has caused himself to be humiliated before the entire nation and world, perhaps we can stop now and find some compassion for Larry Craig. Perhaps it's time to stop piling on him, easy as piling on seems. People on the right and the left have been piling on. Anti-gay people and people who support gay rights have been piling on, in a weird display of collective denunciation of Larry Craig, albeit for somewhat different reasons.

Larry Craig has to live with what he has done. Speaking as a gay person, I think he is going to have to come to terms with his sexual orientation, whether that is gay or bisexual. If he doesn't, his life will be miserable. He is going to have to admit to himself that he is either gay or bisexual, just to be honest and to restore integrity to his life. From there, he can make decisions about his future.

It's tempting for those of us who are gay to keep on denouncing Craig for the damage he has done to gay people by voting as he has in the Senate. And he has done damage; there is no doubt about that. But he is also a human being, a human being who is suffering right now and who will suffer further. I think the struggle for Larry Craig, to restore integrity and self-respect to his life, is just beginning.

Can we find it in ourselves to show compassion for Larry Craig in this time of darkness for him? I am not suggesting that people urge Larry Craig to repent of the imaginary sin of being gay. No....I think Larry Craig needs to accept the fact that he is either gay or bisexual, admit that openly, and live as an openly gay or bisexual man. And I think that those of us who are gay or bisexual should reach out to him as he goes through that process, not abandon him as his fellow conservative Republicans are doing. I think that is the Christian thing for us gay people, and those who support gay people, to do.

Interesting!

I have felt twinges of compassion for the poor man...at times.

But I am also aware of his colossal hypocrisy. While I do feel a bit sorry for him, this is a bed of his own making. He must now sleep in it. It really does bring new light to the old saying "you reap what you sow."

The fact that he is now trying to undo his guilty plea is kind of pathetic. I hope he just lets it go and resigns, as he most certainly should.

 

[Ohioprof]

The officer charged Craig with commiting a lewd act in a public place. While you say he was charged for not actually doing that, I suggest you look up what the charge constitutes in the jursidiction he was cited in.

Craig has good lawyers and he pleaded guilty to a lesser charge. If he was not guilty, he never would have pleaded guilty. So there you go.

He pleaded guilty to "disorderly conduct," and he did not get the advice of a lawyer before he did this, from what I have read. He now regards his not previously consulting a lawyer as a big mistake.

My understanding is that he did not actually commit a "lewd act." He reportedly moved his foot around so it touched the policeman's foot, and he moved his hand around under the policeman's stall in a gesture that is commonly intended to signal a request for sex, or so I have read. He also reportedly looked into the policeman's stall before entering the stall next to him, which is considered "peeping" and is against the law in Minnesota. Except perhaps for the "peeping," that does not sound to me like he committed a lewd act, just a form of a come-on.

Of course, this is just what I have read in the news. I could be wrong about exactly what happened.

 

[D.W.Washburn]

I feel terrible for the man.

I feel badly for the hypocrisy to which he was made to stoop.

I do not for a second excuse him.

 

[BAFRIEND]

He pleaded guilty to "disorderly conduct," and he did not get the advice of a lawyer before he did this, from what I have read. He now regards his not previously consulting a lawyer as a big mistake.

My understanding is that he did not actually commit a "lewd act." He reportedly moved his foot around so it touched the policeman's foot, and he moved his hand around under the policeman's stall in a gesture that is commonly intended to signal a request for sex, or so I have read. He also reportedly looked into the policeman's stall before entering the stall next to him, which is considered "peeping" and is against the law in Minnesota. Except perhaps for the "peeping," that does not sound to me like he committed a lewd act, just a form of a come-on.

Of course, this is just what I have read in the news. I could be wrong about exactly what happened.

I looked it up and Minnestoa has what is called an attempt statute that makes him guilty even if he did not go through the act. All he needs to do is attempt to commit a lewd act in order for him to be guilty.

 

[BAFRIEND]

I feel terrible for the man.

I feel badly for the hypocrisy to which he was made to stoop.

I do not for a second excuse him.

i don't think he is a hypocrate if he has a homosexual orientation but is against the gay lifestyle. Are you going to tell me that there are no homosexuals out there who think that gay sex/lifestyle is wrong ?

He is no hypocrate because while he may have given into the temptation to sin, he is against the lifestyle as is proven by the way he leads his public life and by voting against gay marriage.

 

[HaloHope]

I personally don't know the guy well at all. Here in the UK people who are anti-gay dont tend to talk about it (at least now) unless they are from some extremeist party so the concept of someone from a mainstream party bashing others sexuality is quite foreign to me (yay I love the UK!).

His hypocrisy is astounding for being caught in this act, however he does deserve compassion. It is the hateful attitude towards gays and the fact many in America seem to drum "gay is wrong" into their children from an early age that causes sad events like this. Nothing else. If sexuality was a non-issue (as it ALWAYS should be) then people wouldnt hide their true selves and campaign against it imho.

However

 

[D.W.Washburn]

i don't think he is a hypocrate if he has a homosexual orientation but is against the gay lifestyle. Are you going to tell me that there are no homosexuals out there who think that gay sex/lifestyle is wrong ?

He is no hypocrate because while he may have given into the temptation to sin, he is against the lifestyle as is proven by the way he leads his public life and by voting against gay marriage.

He pretends to be what he is not. He is a hypocrite.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

He pretends to be what he is not. He is a hypocrite.

AMEN!

It takes a good deal of courage to come out of the closet and live with integrity as God created us.

Those who live in the closet do not have the right to cast stones at those of us who refuse to go back in.

In fact, if they do cast stones, they bring about their own outing...quite rightly, I might add.

 

[Zaac]

Craig was not trying to get a quikie in the bathroom. It is different than trying to pick someone up in a bar because we are not talking about a bathroom, but a public restroom.

You're right. If he was swiping his hnad underneath the partition, he was trying to GIVE a quickie.

The difference is that a bathroom refers to a place in a person's home (ie private property) while a public restroom by definition is not private. From several unfortunate experiences in college, I learned that you can indeed tell when there is more than one person occupying a stall in a public restroom and having sex. Most of us do not want to be exposed to that regardless of whether one is looking under the stalls or not. That is why there are laws against it.

The laws aren't against having sex in a public restroom. I don't think many places would even word a law that way.

 

[Zaac]

The officer charged Craig with commiting a lewd act in a public place. While you say he was charged for not actually doing that, I suggest you look up what the charge constitutes in the jursidiction he was cited in.

Craig has good lawyers and he pleaded guilty to a lesser charge. If he was not guilty, he never would have pleaded guilty. So there you go.

The man pleaded guilty because he knew what he was in there to do.

I really don't see where the mass confusion of the public is coming from. Folks are saying that he actually didn't do anything and that basde upon the tape he wasn't in there to do anything.

has the whole world gone crazy? The man was in there tapping his foot and swiping his hand for the very reason the cop said. Folks been doing this for years. The officer arrested him because he did the very same thing that everyone else who goes into that bathroom to have sex does.

He can deny it all he wants. But he's had sex in that bathroom before and no doubt in others. Thus he knew exactly what to do once he got in there.

It is not coincidental that hegoes into a bathroom and as though reading a set of directions, followed the same script to have sex in a bathroom that guys have been following for decades.

Guilty as pleaded and chraged.