Community group proposes oversight board with power to remove police superintendent and set policy

[SummerMadness]

Give a civilian oversight board the power to remove police superintendent, set policy, community groups propose

A seven-member civilian board would have the power to fire Chicago’s police superintendent and set department policy under a far-reaching proposal by some of Chicago’s leading community organizations that quickly drew criticism from police.

The long-awaited report from the Grassroots Alliance for Police Accountability calls for Mayor Rahm Emanuel to also retain the ability to fire a superintendent. But extending that authority to a civilian commission would be a dramatic change in a city where City Hall has long held tight controls over what happens at police headquarters.

 

[Bio-Luminescent Billy]

On one hand, it could go terribly wrong. On the other hand, it's already Chicago. Let them experiment.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Seems like a big mistake...but I'm with Billy, it's already a mess so let them make it. At least it will discourage other cities from doing the same.

 

[RDKirk]

Give a civilian oversight board the power to remove police superintendent, set policy, community groups propose

That's how the Soviets in the USSR operated.

In fact, that's specifically what "Soviet" means.

 

[Bio-Luminescent Billy]

That's how the Soviets in the USSR operated.

In fact, that's specifically what "Soviet" means.

I think John Titor called it. The war will come down between the cities (blue zones) and the country (red zones).

 

[Liza B.]

Give a civilian oversight board the power to remove police superintendent, set policy, community groups propose

Is this not like a school board, rather?

 

[iluvatar5150]

In the current scenario, you have the chief responsible solely to the mayor and his political ambitions.

In the other, you'd have the chief at least partly responsible to an elected board made up of folks with relevant experience. Maybe in that case he would be incentivized to release damaging video early instead of hiding it until after an election.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I think John Titor called it. The war will come down between the cities (blue zones) and the country (red zones).

That fight has been going on for centuries. Culturally and economically, if not legislatively, cities seem to be winning.

 

[MoonlessNight]

I think John Titor called it. The war will come down between the cities (blue zones) and the country (red zones).

That's for in worldlines in the alpha attractor basin. We are currently at an unstable equilibrium point between the alpha and beta attractor basins.

 

[Ana the Ist]

In the current scenario, you have the chief responsible solely to the mayor and his political ambitions.

In the other, you'd have the chief at least partly responsible to an elected board made up of folks with relevant experience. Maybe in that case he would be incentivized to release damaging video early instead of hiding it until after an election.

Well if it's a piece of evidence in an investigation...probably not.

 

[SummerMadness]

In the current scenario, you have the chief responsible solely to the mayor and his political ambitions.

In the other, you'd have the chief at least partly responsible to an elected board made up of folks with relevant experience. Maybe in that case he would be incentivized to release damaging video early instead of hiding it until after an election.

Having a police chief that is accountable to the people he serves is NOT the way to do it for some. I believe this attitude comes from the idea that the people being "served" are not to not be treated as citizens and rather as subjects to a patriarchal system that knows best. Given the attitude that certain "cultures" are immoral or inferior, the notion that they giving them any sort of power to direct the police is frightening to some. If you see the police as a buffer to keep the colony in check, you never want to see the colony get any power or authority.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Having a police chief that is accountable to the people he serves is NOT the way to do it for some. I believe this attitude comes from the idea that the people being "served" are not to not be treated as citizens and rather as subjects to a patriarchal system that knows best. Given the attitude that certain "cultures" are immoral or inferior, the notion that they giving them any sort of power to direct the police is frightening to some. If you see the police as a buffer to keep the colony in check, you never want to see the colony get any power or authority.

Of course, then there's reality....

If we took five people off the street and told them "Hey, you're now in charge of this person's job...You have the ability to fire them if you don't like it." Do you think anyone would be comfortable with that scenario? I mean, if I was a janitor I'd think that was unfair...if I was police chief, a nuanced job with tons of responsibility and a perspective on things that the public simply doesn't have...I'd be more than a little miffed.

Then there's the practical implications...let's say an incident happens and it's not immediately clear to the public how it went down. The oversight board asks what happened...and all the chief can say without putting the investigation or entire justice system at risk is, "Sorry, but I can't share details of an ongoing investigation."

The oversight board can basically accept that it's functionally useless...they can fire police chiefs until no one competent wants the job...or they can admit it was a dumb idea and disband.

Regardless, it should be fun to watch.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Of course, then there's reality....

If we took five people off the street and told them "Hey, you're now in charge of this person's job...You have the ability to fire them if you don't like it." Do you think anyone would be comfortable with that scenario? I mean, if I was a janitor I'd think that was unfair...if I was police chief, a nuanced job with tons of responsibility and a perspective on things that the public simply doesn't have...I'd be more than a little miffed.

Then there's the practical implications...let's say an incident happens and it's not immediately clear to the public how it went down. The oversight board asks what happened...and all the chief can say without putting the investigation or entire justice system at risk is, "Sorry, but I can't share details of an ongoing investigation."

The oversight board can basically accept that it's functionally useless...they can fire police chiefs until no one competent wants the job...or they can admit it was a dumb idea and disband.

Regardless, it should be fun to watch.

Did you read the article's description of the requirements to sit on the commission? These aren't just some randos getting elected on a ballot no one pays attention to. Assuming they actually make it to the final legislation, the req's to be on this board will be considerably higher and more relevant than those mandated for other elected officials, including the mayor who already has this authority.

 

[bhsmte]

Who will have oversight, over the civilian board?

 

[SummerMadness]

Did you read the article's description of the requirements to sit on the commission? These aren't just some randos getting elected on a ballot no one pays attention to. Assuming they actually make it to the final legislation, the req's to be on this board will be considerably higher and more relevant than those mandated for other elected officials, including the mayor who already has this authority.

People will make up anything to dismiss such oversight, even creating ridiculous strawmen to attack any sort of accountability. I think akin to a scientist complaining about having a lay person on a university or hospital institutional review board (IRB) because "they don't understand science." Policing is not science, so the idea that community members are clueless about the needs of their community and any oversight is a ridiculous argument foisted by those that wish to residents as subjects.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Who will have oversight, over the civilian board?

If I'm reading the article correctly, the members of the district councils who elect the oversight board.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Did you read the article's description of the requirements to sit on the commission?

Admittedly, no...I didn't read the requirements. Are they all former law enforcement...or at least have law enforcement experience?

These aren't just some randos getting elected on a ballot no one pays attention to. Assuming they actually make it to the final legislation, the req's to be on this board will be considerably higher and more relevant than those mandated for other elected officials, including the mayor who already has this authority.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Admittedly, no...I didn't read the requirements. Are they all former law enforcement...or at least have law enforcement experience?

It's a mix:

Commission applicants would be required to live in Chicago and hold extensive work experience in fields including law, public policy, mental health, social work, law enforcement and community organizing. The proposal also mentions seeking advocates who have worked on behalf of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community and those with disabilities. At least two members must be lawyers with at least 10 years experience of practicing civil rights or criminal law.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It's a mix:

Ahhh...see, I only read a little further than this guy's comments...

"We're in the middle of a serious crime fight, and we're finally making real progress, so I don’t know how you can turn over crime strategy and every policing decision to some group of people who have absolutely no law enforcement experience,” Johnson told reporters. "The two most important things to me are the safety of the people of this city and the necessary reforms we are making to strengthen trust.

“I would have been happy to share my thoughts with this group, but in the entire 18 months they were gathering input, they never bothered to meet with me or with anyone at CPD,” he said."

When I got to a part that said they'd be able to set policy...I realized it was a pretty bad idea. The fact is, policing is simply one of those jobs that lends the people who do it a rather unique perspective. If you don't understand things from their point of view...I doubt you'd be able to make policy decisions that will benefit the police or community. It's a bit like Baltimore, where they hampered police activity and ended up enabling the criminals.

You said you did video game design, right?

 

[iluvatar5150]

Ahhh...see, I only read a little further than this guy's comments...

"We're in the middle of a serious crime fight, and we're finally making real progress, so I don’t know how you can turn over crime strategy and every policing decision to some group of people who have absolutely no law enforcement experience,” Johnson told reporters. "The two most important things to me are the safety of the people of this city and the necessary reforms we are making to strengthen trust.

“I would have been happy to share my thoughts with this group, but in the entire 18 months they were gathering input, they never bothered to meet with me or with anyone at CPD,” he said."

When I got to a part that said they'd be able to set policy...I realized it was a pretty bad idea. The fact is, policing is simply one of those jobs that lends the people who do it a rather unique perspective. If you don't understand things from their point of view...I doubt you'd be able to make policy decisions that will benefit the police or community. It's a bit like Baltimore, where they hampered police activity and ended up enabling the criminals.

It's kinda funny - the author talked about the commission having the authority to set policy right at the beginning of the article. You said you stopped reading there, and I somehow skipped right over it.

You said you did video game design, right?

Audio post production / sound design. These days it's predominantly games, but there's also theater, live music / HOW. I'm trying to get into developing and selling sound fx libraries, but that's turning into more of a pain in the butt than I expected. But anyways...


FWIW, I don't see this as a foolproof plan but I also don't see it as necessarily terrible either. I suspect that its success will come down to how well it's executed.

Regarding the idea of outside oversight - yes, it's easy for people outside an industry to play armchair quarterback. Yes, that's a danger here. LEO has to deal with it. Game devs have to deal with it. Audio guys (which is more how I identify myself) have to deal with it. And yes, many times, that outside judgment is ill-advised and unproductive.

However...

It's also easy for people/organizations - particularly ones as insular/siloed as law enforcement (and game devs and audio guys... especially audio guys) to get tunnel vision, caring only about the things that immediately affect them, and losing perspective of the big picture and how they fit into it. This is a constant struggle in creative industries, because your success is directly tied to how effectively you can communicate something to your audience. It doesn't matter how much you love a certain feature or piece of artwork or piece of music, if it doesn't read to the audience in a certain way, it has to go.

I suspect law enforcement (or most other jobs, for that matter) doesn't have that sort of feedback mechanism pushing them to maintain a "big picture" perspective that serves the audience. After a while, you wind up thinking you're still serving the big picture, when in reality, you're mostly advocating for yourself.