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Common Questions and Objections Regarding the Sabbath Refuted

SAAN

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Jesus was a problem to the Pharisees added on man made traditions. They added hundred of laws to try to preserve the 613 they were supposed to be keeping.

mark 7 & Matt 15 were examples of how the Pharisees tried to push ceremonial hand washings on disciples even though they were not commands of God.

Jesus was the fulfillment of the law and came and showed how it was to be lived and how the purpose of all of it was to Love God and Love One Another, not that he was here to cancel out all commands of his father when he specifically said he was not here to do that, he wasnt greater than the father, and that he came to do his fathers will.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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Jesus was a stumbling stone, a rock of offense, to the law party.
And still is to this day........

Young) Daniel 2:45
Because that thou hast seen that out of the mountain/OC Jerusalem cut hath been a stone without hands, and it hath beaten small the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold.
The great God hath made known to the king that which [is] to be after this; and the dream [is] true, and its interpretation stedfast.

Young) Daniel 2:35
then broken small together have been the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, and they have been as chaff from the summer threshing-floor, and carried them away hath the wind, and no place hath been found for them: and the stone that smote the image hath become a great mountain/NC Jerusalem, and hath filled all the land.


Reve 18:12
replete of gold and of silver and of stone, precious and of pearl/*s and of cambric and of purple and of silk and of scarlet and every wood citron and every instrument of ivory and every instrument out of wood most-precious and of copper and of iron and of marble,


.
 
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LarryP2

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Jesus was a problem to the Pharisees added on man made traditions. They added hundred of laws to try to preserve the 613 they were supposed to be keeping.

mark 7 & Matt 15 were examples of how the Pharisees tried to push ceremonial hand washings on disciples even though they were not commands of God.

Jesus was the fulfillment of the law and came and showed how it was to be lived and how the purpose of all of it was to Love God and Love One Another, not that he was here to cancel out all commands of his father when he specifically said he was not here to do that, he wasnt greater than the father, and that he came to do his fathers will.


That is a position that was unanimously rejected by Christianity since the beginning. Gentile Christians were absolutely forbidden by the Torah to keep the Mosaic Law. Gentile Christians could be executed for Sabbath Keeping or for Torah reading. The potential for the Death Penalty was crystal clear. Gentiles were specifically covered under the 7 Noahide Commandments since Noah's time, and those 7 commandments were reaffirmed by Moses.
 
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SAAN

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That is a position that was unanimously rejected by Christianity since the beginning. Gentile Christians were absolutely forbidden by the Torah to keep the Mosaic Law. Gentile Christians could be executed for Sabbath Keeping or for Torah reading. The potential for the Death Penalty was crystal clear. Gentiles were specifically covered under the 7 Noahide Commandments since Noah's time, and those 7 commandments were reaffirmed by Moses.


Yes you are right, a Christian should only live by Noahide commands.

All of the following are okay for Christians then:
-Graven images
-Dishonoring your parents
-Bearing False witness against others
-Coveting

How would anyone alive today with the bible we have even know what Sexual immorality is unless they read Leviticus 18?
 
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LarryP2

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Jesus was a problem to the Pharisees added on man made traditions. They added hundred of laws to try to preserve the 613 they were supposed to be keeping.

Chapter and verse please, where Jesus denounced ONLY the "added on man made traditions" and the "other hundreds of laws" you mention.

At least we are making progress. You now accurately concede that there are actually 613 commandments, and not just 10 like the deceitful "War on Ten Commandments" poster lied about. Colossians 2:13-18 either nails ALL of them to the Cross, or NONE of them.

Take your pick.

Yes you are right, a Christian should only live by Noahide commands.

All of the following are okay for Christians then:
-Graven images
-Dishonoring your parents
-Bearing False witness against others
-Coveting

How would anyone alive today with the bible we have even know what Sexual immorality is unless they read Leviticus 18?

They knew what "sexual immorality" was for hundreds of years before Leviticus. In fact, THAT was explained to Adam hundreds of years before Noah. Unlike you, with your wild guessing of what the law "means," there were thousands of court rulings on the subject, regarding the rights and responsibilities of Noahides as they were called, throughout the history of the Old Covenant. And if like you, you need specific guidance on what you can do and what you cannot do, the Sanhedrin spelled it for you thousands of years ago:

"Noahides are prohibited from engaging in six illicit sexual relationships: with one's mother, with one's father's wife, with another man's wife, with his sister from the same mother, in a male homosexual union, and with an animal as it says, 'Therefore shall a man leave his father…' this refers to his father's wife; 'and his mother…" refers to the mother; 'and cling to his wife…' and not another's wife; 'wife…' and not a homosexual union; 'and become one flesh' (Genesis 2:24) excluding animals…" (Maimonides, Laws of Kings, 9:5)."
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/beliefs/Issues/Jews_and_Non-Jews/Legal_Issues/Noahide_Laws.shtml

Your statement that the Noahide Law does not prohibit "Bearing false witness against others" and "Graven Images" is an outright, willful lie, as the Noahide laws, as interpreted by the Sanhedrin CLEARLY prohibit those actions. In fact, Modern Day Israel has set up a court identical to the Sanhedrin to make rulings on Noahide issues:

"Six items were commanded to Adam: concerning idolatry, blasphemy, bloodshed, illicit sexuality, theft, and laws…God added to Noah, the law of not eating from the flesh of a live animal" (Maimonides, Laws of Kings 9:1)."
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/beliefs/Issues/Jews_and_Non-Jews/Legal_Issues/Noahide_Laws.shtml?p=2
http://www.thesanhedrin.org/en/index.php?title=Jerusalem_Court_for_Issues_of_Bnei_Noah

Your final two contentions are bizarre.....if God made the Noahide laws for Gentiles, who are YOU to think that he made a mistake? In any case, Noahides were required as one of their laws to set up Court's of Justice which had the power to criminalize any action that it pleased. Apparently, they took no note of your and Ellen White's fear of total lawless anarchy, were the Ten Commandments abandoned:

"In my opinion, the laws which the Noahides were to establish according to their seven commandments is not only to establish courts in each town, but that they were also commanded concerning theft, abuse, usury, labor relations, damages, loans, business, and the like, just as Israel was commanded to set up laws in these matters (Nahmanides, Commentary to Genesis 34:13)."
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/beliefs/Issues/Jews_and_Non-Jews/Legal_Issues/Noahide_Laws.shtml

Face it, your disbelief that the Noahide laws cover almost everything the Ten Commandments did indicates that you are the victim of a colossal, willful fraud and the victim of a ruthless, sociopathic, pathological liar named Ellen White. SHE is the one that announced that without the Ten Commandments - without ever mentioning the existence of the Noahide laws and the courts that enforced them in her fraudulent Great Controversy trash novel - that people were free to murder, rape and pillage. A more dishonest, deceitful statement cannot possibly be imagined. She lied through her teeth to get more of that ten percent income stream. That you have formed ignorant opinions about the coverage and scope of the Noahide laws, and having never even looked at one single court decision interpreting those laws, indicates that quite a bit of Ellen White's ruthless, naked dishonesty has rubbed off on you.

Finally, if the Ten Commandments were supposed to be universal in application and meant for everyone, please give me some evidence of how and when they were shared with the other cultures and empires at the time of the Old Testament. Were the Greeks given the Ten Commandments? Persians? Babylonians? Do you have ONE SINGE SHRED of evidence that any of those four empires had the Ten Commandments and enforced them? Just Google "Greeks and Ten Commandments," "Romans and Ten Commandments," "Persians and Ten Commandments" and "Babylonians and Ten Commandments" and you will find your answer. NONE of the other civilizations and empires at the time of the Old Testament had or enforced the Ten Commandments. Here's what they DID have, notwithstanding God's forgetfulness and incompetence to give them the Ten Commandments, since according to you they are binding on all people in the world:

Babylonians: Code of Hammurabi, 282 laws carved into stone (Not TEN, but 282): http://www.bandoli.no/hammurabi.htm

Persians: The laws of the Vendidad among the Iranians and the laws of Manu among the early Indians are well-known. But it is not equally known that the laws of the Vendidad formed only a fragment of the vast jurisprudence of the ancient Iranians. Since the days of Zarathushtra when human knowledge was raised into the sanctity of religion and formulated into twenty-one Nasks or Holy Books, one third of that great knowledge comprised Law, one-third Science, and one-third pure Religion. The Books of Law dealt with Court and Magisterial Law, Law of Accusations, Law for Injuries to Person and Property; Laws pertaining to Theft, Misappropriation and Cruelty to Animals; Laws applying to Soldiers and Military Organisations; Church Law, Family Law and Law of Pedigree and Descent; Law applying to Medical Practice; Law of Business Transactions in relation to Property, Animate and Inanimate; Laws relating to Debt and Interest, the other Mutual Obligations; Laws of Purity, Health and Sanitation, Private and Public; Laws applying to the Cultivation of the Soil and Colonizing Schemes; and finally, the Law of the Heavenly Kingdom and the Divine Government of the Universe.

http://www.parstimes.com/law/ancient_persia_laws.html

Greeks: "The Code of Moses is supposed to have followed; but Sparta in ancient Greece probably had the next system of codified law in known history; for, in B.C. 900, Lycurgus, the king of that country, gave his people a new set of laws. In Greece itself Dracon drew up a sever code of laws at Athens in 621 B.C. Solon who followed however gave that state a more humane system of legislation." Apparently the Greeks thought up all of their laws with NO help from the Ten Commandments, since their laws were BEFORE the Ten Commandments! Imagine that!
http://www.parstimes.com/law/ancient_persia_laws.html

Romans: Roman laws are said to have started with Romulus who is supposed to have lived about the year 753 B.C. Numa and Servius Tullius were the next Roman legislators. About 451 B.C. the Decemvirs gave Rome laws which were rather rigorous. The Twelve Tables which the Decemvirs had framed continued as standard Roman law until Emperor Hadrian promulgated the Perpetual Edict which was a fair code prepared by the lawyer Salvius Julian.
http://www.parstimes.com/law/ancient_persia_laws.html

That is a HUGE mistake that God made if he intended for the Ten Commandments to cover everyone! Truly Adventists, who think everyone in the world is covered by the Ten Commandments, believe in a frightfully-incompetent God, who made NO effort whatsoever to give the Ten Commandments to ANYONE else by the Israelites. Even at the very time the Ten Commandments were handed down to Moses, there were four different, massive and advanced empires, NONE of who took any note whatsoever of the Law that supposedly binds everyone, including us today! Along with NO evidence whatsoever that ANYONE at ANYTIME in those years thought the Judaic law applied in any way shape or form to their respective governments. NOBODY!

How can this be? Do Seventh Day Adventists, with their demand that the Ten Commandments cover everyone in the world, REALLY think that God was so incompetent that he neglected to pass the Ten Commandments around for the rest of the world in Old Testament times?
 
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