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Commandments

Pagan

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Is Genesis 1:28 the first commandment or maybe the first three commandments?

God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
 

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I would say that was more of a "spoken indwelling", so to speak. What I mean by that is it was His continuation of the creation process by speaking things that mankind would inherently do, a type of genetic coding, if you will. No one has to try to do those things, they just come naturally.

I'm not sure if that made sense....more coffee.... :D
 
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Pagan

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I would say that was more of a "spoken indwelling", so to speak. What I mean by that is it was His continuation of the creation process by speaking things that mankind would inherently do, a type of genetic coding, if you will. No one has to try to do those things, they just come naturally.

I'm not sure if that made sense....more coffee.... :D

I can see how humans might reproduce without being told. I don't know if they subdue the earth and rule the animals. How will we know if we have subdued the earth, and if we rule the animals?
 
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I can see how humans might reproduce without being told. I don't know if they subdue the earth and rule the animals. How will we know if we have subdued the earth, and if we rule the animals?

Mankind tries to subdue/control everything he touches. If we "discover" a nice tropical paradise it won't be long before the trees are chopped down, the resources are taken and the animals die out because they no longer have a habitat.
 
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Depending on how we count, Genesis 2:17 could be the first or fourth commandment.

... you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,

That was actually the very first commandment given (and we couldn't keep it very long lol).
 
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Mankind tries to subdue/control everything he touches. If we "discover" a nice tropical paradise it won't be long before the trees are chopped down, the resources are taken and the animals die out because they no longer have a habitat.

I suppose that's right. Sometimes we can trace human migration by noting animal extinction. For example, birds in the Pacific Ocean became extinct as humans moved from island to island. Something similar happened as humans moved into North America.

When I was a kid, I had a Native American neighbor. He told a story about how originally the Europeans took all the furry critters. Then they took all the trees. Then they came back for the rocks. Apparently, the rocks contained a mineral of some kind.

I don't think that God would command us to destroy the earth, so subdue can't mean destroy.
 
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I suppose that's right. Sometimes we can trace human migration by noting animal extinction. For example, birds in the Pacific Ocean became extinct as humans moved from island to island. Something similar happened as humans moved into North America.

When I was a kid, I had a Native American neighbor. He told a story about how originally the Europeans took all the furry critters. Then they took all the trees. Then they came back for the rocks. Apparently, the rocks contained a mineral of some kind.

I don't think that God would command us to destroy the earth, so subdue can't mean destroy.

You are right, that was certainly not His original intent, but then sin entered the picture and instead of taking care of everything like He wanted us to, we destroy it.
 
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Pagan

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That was actually the very first commandment given (and we couldn't keep it very long lol).

So how would I know if I ate forbidden fruit?
I'm not sure I fully understand the thread and its intent.

The church, where my family attends, emphasizes the commandments and how they affect human behavior, so I figure I should learn more about the commandments and how they affect human behavior.
 
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In Exodus 12:2, in which God explains about the Passover, He says to Moses, “This month is to be for you the first month, the first month of your year."

This looks like a commandment to have a calendar that begins at Passover which would begin sometime in the Spring, but I know that the Jewish New Year begins in the fall, so it doesn't make any sense.
 
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In Exodus 20:2, in which God explains about the Passover, He says to Moses, “This month is to be for you the first month, the first month of your year."

This looks like a commandment to have a calendar that begins at Passover which would begin sometime in the Spring, but I know that the Jewish New Year begins in the fall, so it doesn't make any sense.

The Passover ended with Jesus's death, He was the Passover Lamb, the Lamb of God without blemish. The laws given to Moses for the people were Old Covenant laws, ceremonial laws. Those don't apply to us today because Jesus fulfilled them all for us. Jesus said,

“ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’c 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’d 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

When we love God and love others, all other (moral) commandments stand, because if you love someone you won't steal from them, lie to them, murder them, etc..
 
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Pagan

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Exodus 12 has more commandments about how to celebrate Passover.

Fifty years ago, when I worked in a Chevron Oil Company research lab, the scientists celebrated Passover in December when the Nobel Prize Committee passed them over for Nobel Prizes.

Exodus 12:49 has an early version of the 14th Amendment, which guarantees all persons equal protection of the laws.

Exodus 12:49 says, "The same law applies both to the native-born and to the foreigner residing among you.”

I might guess the Exodus 12:49 would not apply the same law to slaves and women.
 
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The church, where my family attends, emphasizes the commandments and how they affect human behavior, so I figure I should learn more about the commandments and how they affect human behavior.
Are you sure they're not talking specifically about the 10 Commandments?
 
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Is Genesis 1:28 the first commandment or maybe the first three commandments?

God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
Yes, it is a timeless commandment. For this purpose mankind was created: to be the image of God. Just as God fills the earth (and heaven: Ephesians 4:10), subdues and rules over it (Proverbs 15:3), He does so from His throne in heaven (Isaiah 66:1), so we are to be the image of God in His creation - as the physical walking, talking creators who bring His power to earth through our representation of Him / the speaking of His word (John 5:38, Romans 10:8, Matthew 4:4, Isaiah 59:21, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:43-44).
I can see how humans might reproduce without being told. I don't know if they subdue the earth and rule the animals. How will we know if we have subdued the earth, and if we rule the animals?
At that time, there will be peace throughout the earth. All humans and animals will be at peace, and nothing will harm or destroy (Daniel 2:35). For all the earth will be full of the knowledge of God (Isaiah 11:6-9).
Depending on how we count, Genesis 2:17 could be the first or fourth commandment.

... you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,
We should consider these seemingly separate commands, as individual observations of the complete commandment.

It was a knowledge of what God's will is for them in the original state of things (ie The Garden of Eden), rather than a list of prescribed statements (see Jeremiah 31:33, Psalms 37:31).

Therefore, humans were given paradise and an inherent understanding of their role, along with a warning. Since it is written as two separate commands in proximity of words, to our reading it is possible to make it appear to imply some chronological issuing of the understandings, so that we may be inclined to classify it as "two separated commands". This is not necessarily the case.

There is no real indication that there was a chronology of commandments between Genesis 1:28 and Genesis 2:17, but rather, both those verses give different details about a much more complex understanding. It is merely a consequence of written communication that these might appear to be separate commands.

When it comes to having a spiritual comprehension of God's law (eg as Jeremiah 31:33 describes), the understanding does not have such limitations, because it does not require words at all. Rather, it is the resonating of two hearts so that there be no misunderstanding.

I suppose that's right. Sometimes we can trace human migration by noting animal extinction. For example, birds in the Pacific Ocean became extinct as humans moved from island to island. Something similar happened as humans moved into North America.

When I was a kid, I had a Native American neighbor. He told a story about how originally the Europeans took all the furry critters. Then they took all the trees. Then they came back for the rocks. Apparently, the rocks contained a mineral of some kind.

I don't think that God would command us to destroy the earth, so subdue can't mean destroy.
Very good. Destruction does not come from God (John 8:44, John 10:10). The human who destroys is operating of their beast nature, not of their original human nature - which is to be the image of God (create, love, guard, teach etc). (Romans 8:5-6, Galatians 5:14-18).

So how would I know if I ate forbidden fruit?
A person first needs to be willing to acknowledge it, so that they may receive the conviction of the truth that comes from The Holy Spirit.

Once a person has left resonance with The Holy Spirit, they have already chosen to reject the truth, and it is only by the grace of God that we may return to Him. It's interesting that Jesus said "unless you turn and become again as a little child, you will never enter the kingdom of God". This is because children always break down their illusion of deceit and admit the truth, when their parents bust them (parents are more cunning than children and it is difficult for children to evade grown-ups when they conduct an investigation).

Grown-ups don't always do this when God speaks to them though. Instead they pretend that nobody will corner them in their errors because nobody can actually prove anything (they have figured out how to use deceit to guard their convictions). They go on thinking that He doesn't see them, because they do not acknowledge the words that He speaks to them. They have chosen to not hear The Holy Spirit - and so therefore they have chosen to eat (be nourished, sustained-by) the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil!

These are they who choose to believe in their heart "there is no God - and I won't believe it until it is proven to me". They have done an abominable deed (Psalms 53:1). This was an interesting post in which I described detail to another member about that transition from being innocent and close to God, as a child, then to being obstinate as a grown-up and needing to be born again (John 4:14): Faith & Believe Help

After saying all of this, the only way a person will know if they have eaten forbidden fruit, is if they are willing to stop pretending that the onus is on God, and then admit to God "I know that something has come between us, and I am really not sure what particular thing is stopping me from being born again - can you please bring me into your judgement so that I can receive conviction for my sin, and then to repent so I can have the relationship with you that you have promised and that those Christians already have".
The church, where my family attends, emphasizes the commandments and how they affect human behavior, so I figure I should learn more about the commandments and how they affect human behavior.
A major learning for me, is that holding a belief that a command is paramount, most often produces a judgementalism against those who do not observe it as we have come to expect. This in turn gives opportunity for our pride, jealousy, anger etc to manifest against those whom we have deemed "lawless", and that is the opposite of our ability to demonstrate love. (He who stays in love stays in God, and God in him). This is how it is written "the letter of the law quickens, but the spirit gives life". The way that these such people have learned to apply the commandments to their life, is to earn a justification (Romans 4:4). They then become lawless against their brethren by failing to have love, where their brothers and sisters are already sanctified by their ignorance so that The Holy Spirit has not even convicted them eg (Galatians 5:14, Romans 14:4, Matthew 7:1). Thus, their judgement is not applied in righteousness, because that one still has not received conviction from The Holy Spirit in order that they should be judged!

All this to say, "beware the yeast of the Pharisee" - a little leaven ferments a whole loaf of dough.
 
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Pagan

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Are you sure they're not talking specifically about the 10 Commandments?

Actually, I'm not sure, but I think that some of the church consider any imperative, Biblical sentence as a commandment, even things like, "Let there be light."
 
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Pagan

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Yes, it is a timeless commandment. For this purpose mankind was created: to be the image of God. Just as God fills the earth (and heaven: Ephesians 4:10), subdues and rules over it (Proverbs 15:3), He does so from His throne in heaven (Isaiah 66:1), so we are to be the image of God in His creation - as the physical walking, talking creators who bring His power to earth through our representation of Him / the speaking of His word (John 5:38, Romans 10:8, Matthew 4:4, Isaiah 59:21, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:43-44).

At that time, there will be peace throughout the earth. All humans and animals will be at peace, and nothing will harm or destroy (Daniel 2:35). For all the earth will be full of the knowledge of God (Isaiah 11:6-9).

We should consider these seemingly separate commands, as individual observations of the complete commandment.

It was a knowledge of what God's will is for them in the original state of things (ie The Garden of Eden), rather than a list of prescribed statements (see Jeremiah 31:33, Psalms 37:31).

Therefore, humans were given paradise and an inherent understanding of their role, along with a warning. Since it is written as two separate commands in proximity of words, to our reading it is possible to make it appear to imply some chronological issuing of the understandings, so that we may be inclined to classify it as "two separated commands". This is not necessarily the case.

There is no real indication that there was a chronology of commandments between Genesis 1:28 and Genesis 2:17, but rather, both those verses give different details about a much more complex understanding. It is merely a consequence of written communication that these might appear to be separate commands.

When it comes to having a spiritual comprehension of God's law (eg as Jeremiah 31:33 describes), the understanding does not have such limitations, because it does not require words at all. Rather, it is the resonating of two hearts so that there be no misunderstanding.


Very good. Destruction does not come from God (John 8:44, John 10:10). The human who destroys is operating of their beast nature, not of their original human nature - which is to be the image of God (create, love, guard, teach etc). (Romans 8:5-6, Galatians 5:14-18).


A person first needs to be willing to acknowledge it, so that they may receive the conviction of the truth that comes from The Holy Spirit.

Once a person has left resonance with The Holy Spirit, they have already chosen to reject the truth, and it is only by the grace of God that we may return to Him. It's interesting that Jesus said "unless you turn and become again as a little child, you will never enter the kingdom of God". This is because children always break down their illusion of deceit and admit the truth, when their parents bust them (parents are more cunning than children and it is difficult for children to evade grown-ups when they conduct an investigation).

Grown-ups don't always do this when God speaks to them though. Instead they pretend that nobody will corner them in their errors because nobody can actually prove anything (they have figured out how to use deceit to guard their convictions). They go on thinking that He doesn't see them, because they do not acknowledge the words that He speaks to them. They have chosen to not hear The Holy Spirit - and so therefore they have chosen to eat (be nourished, sustained-by) the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil!

These are they who choose to believe in their heart "there is no God - and I won't believe it until it is proven to me". They have done an abominable deed (Psalms 53:1). This was an interesting post in which I described detail to another member about that transition from being innocent and close to God, as a child, then to being obstinate as a grown-up and needing to be born again (John 4:14): Faith & Believe Help

After saying all of this, the only way a person will know if they have eaten forbidden fruit, is if they are willing to stop pretending that the onus is on God, and then admit to God "I know that something has come between us, and I am really not sure what particular thing is stopping me from being born again - can you please bring me into your judgement so that I can receive conviction for my sin, and then to repent so I can have the relationship with you that you have promised and that those Christians already have".

A major learning for me, is that holding a belief that a command is paramount, most often produces a judgementalism against those who do not observe it as we have come to expect. This in turn gives opportunity for our pride, jealousy, anger etc to manifest against those whom we have deemed "lawless", and that is the opposite of our ability to demonstrate love. (He who stays in love stays in God, and God in him). This is how it is written "the letter of the law quickens, but the spirit gives life". The way that these such people have learned to apply the commandments to their life, is to earn a justification (Romans 4:4). They then become lawless against their brethren by failing to have love, where their brothers and sisters are already sanctified by their ignorance so that The Holy Spirit has not even convicted them eg (Galatians 5:14, Romans 14:4, Matthew 7:1). Thus, their judgement is not applied in righteousness, because that one still has not received conviction from The Holy Spirit in order that they should be judged!

All this to say, "beware the yeast of the Pharisee" - a little leaven ferments a whole loaf of dough.

That's interesting. I'll take a while to digest this.
 
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