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So the TC are good for commentary, but we are not under them. Why? Because Paul says love fulfills the law.
“Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.” Romans 13:10 (KJV 1900)
I am surprised that you asked this question?How many people do you know personally who directly committed murder,
or who every day race through red lights without hesitation ?
Hello!
So ive been thinking abut this and im a bit confused. God put the 10 commandments in place billions of years ago which lead up to todays generation. When jesus came around, he said,"I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it" And one prophecy concerning the sabbath (wrking on sunday? idk) says in amos, "When will the new moon be over that we may sell grain, and the sabbath be ended..." Amos 8:5 and then the lord answers in verse 9. When jesus is asked by a rich man about which commandments to follow he replies with, "you shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, steal, give false testimony, honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 19:18) And in Colossians, it appears that the mosaic law was taken away when scripture says, "having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us, he has taken away, nailing it to the cross.' (Colossians 2:14) Here are my questions: What does this verse mean?, If jesus fulfilled ceremonial law, then wouldn't that take away the sabbath? Which commandments do we follow if this is the case? From a fellow believer- Michael V
You may need to explain this quotation."Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14).
Since the bible it is only "those who do His com-
mandments...who have the right to enter...the city,
the commandments could not be "contrary to us."
Revelation specifically shows that those who break one of at least four of the ten commandments will be outside God's city (Revelation 22:15).
The ten commandments were not "nailed to the cross," what was? Look again at what the Bible actually says (two translations):
14 having wiped out the handwriting of
requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross ( NKJV)
14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.. (Colossians 2:14, NASB)
The handwriting of requirements (often also called the hand-writing of ordinances) or certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the stake, some call a cross
Which requirements were wiped out? the expression "the handwriting of requirements" (cheirógrafon toís dógmasin) is a Greek legal expression that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay
--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty. It is only through the acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that the penalty was wiped out ("the handwriting of requirements").
But only the penalty, not the law!
Even some Protestant commentators realize this is so. Notice what Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible states about Colossians 2:14:
"Whatever was in force against us is taken out of the way. He has obtained for us a legal discharge from the hand-writing of ordinances, which was against us (v. 14), which may be understood,
1. Of that obligation to punishment in which consists the guilt of sin. The curse of the law is the hand-writing against us, like the hand-writing on Belshazzar's wall. Cursed is every one who continues not in every thing. This was a hand-writing which was against us, and contrary to us; for it threatened our eternal ruin.
This was removed when he redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us, Gal 3:13. (from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.).
look at the Greek term exaleipho translated as "wiped out" in Colossians 2:14:
NT:1813
exaleipho (ex-al-i'-fo); from NT:1537 and NT:218; to smear out, i.e. obliterate (erase tears, figuratively, pardon sin) (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International)
In other words, exaleipho has to do with wiping out sin. This is also confirmed in Acts 3:19 where Peter also uses the term exaleipho, which is translated as "blotted out" below:
19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.
Hence, it is sin and the related penalties that are to be blotted or wiped out. And the penalties could vary from "being unclean to the evening" (Leviticus 11:24-28) to making an offering (Leviticus 5:5-6) to being "cut off from his people" (Leviticus 7:27) to the death penalty (Exodus 31:14).
This is also confirmed elsewhere
in the New Testament:
13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (Galatians 3:13). The curse of the law is related to the penalty. And Jesus paid it.
But what about the law of God?
Was the law of God to be wiped out? No:
17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill (Matthew 5:17)
While some erroneously think that Jesus, for example, did away with the Ten Commandments by how He led His life, that most certainly was not the view of the early Christians who continued to keep them[Paul included]
Furthermore, remember that the Bible clearly teaches that sin is lawlessness:Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. (I John 3:4-5).
Notice that Paul wrote:
Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? (Romans 6:1-2).
Thus the New Testament makes clear that the law of God continues, thus it was not nailed to the cross or somehow wiped out.
-
The Bible, however, also shows that the requirements of the Levitical priesthood (Hebrews 9:1,6-10) sometimes called the law, which were part of the penalty of sin, were blotted out.
And why?
"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins...By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus once for all" (Hebrews 10:4,10).
Jesus' one sacrifice was and is sufficient--
we do not have to sacrifice animals any more!
Another requirement (which is related) would be the death penalty of sin, as "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23) or other specific ceremonial penalties associated with the Old Testament statutes (such as making a sin offering, being put outside the camp, or washing).
That verse (Revelation 22:15) specifically mentions sorcery but you have omitted any mention of that law.Revelation specifically shows that those who break one of at least four of the ten commandments will be outside God's city (Revelation 22:15).
According to Yahuweh's Word,Jesus was the only person to ever obey the commandments.
We already have sentenced most of the population as commandment breakers.
You may need to explain this quotation. That verse (Revelation 22:15) specifically mentions sorcery but you have omitted any mention of that law.
Paul actually says the opposite.According to Yahuweh's Word,
Moses and many of the Israelites obeyed the ten commandments. Daily. All their lives.
(the Apostle Paul did also, and stated so - according to TORAH, he was righteous , as written in the NEW TESTAMENT) ....
Some or many sinned.
It is written what happened to them, according to Yahuweh's Instructions it was accomplished.....
At least four of the commandments?You should read what I said.
I said "at least four"
of the 10 commandments.
Can you show me were no sorcery
was made a law by Christ?
One of the ten ? "at least four"
You pick and choose what you think is God’s law. If it says in the Books of Moses to stone an adulterer, do you not think that is God’s law? Surely you should not stone an adulterer. Do you agree?The actual Law from the Word of God says that the Hebrews should do no servile work. Harvesting is servile, because that is work. Gathering food because you are starving, and/or you need to feed someone or yourself is called survival. The Word of God Himself showed us the boundaries of the Law we didn't even realize - even after hearing it for generations after Moses received the Law, formally, from the Most High God. He even gave us an example of how other righteous people stayed within the boundary of the Law even if the Hebrews didn't find it lawful (e.g. David).
How can a Christian possibly say that the Word of God broke any Law? No, He did not break the Sabbath Law; He broke the dogmatic statutes of the institutions of that time. That's one reason He mentioned that the Sabbath was made for man, not man the Sabbath.
The Law is Perfect because it came from the Most High God. Sacrifices are abandoned because the Word of God Himself sacrificed Himself for our sin - that one actually redeems us. Do you realize sacrifices pointed to Him and His sacrifice the entire time? Christians ignore Law DOGMA - humans telling them the Word of God "isn't really what it seems", and that the Law of God is conditional and void. That is on the teachers who teach this. However, our inability to follow the Law perfectly isn't a reflection on the Law; it is a reflection on our degeneracy, imperfection and evil.
I cannot believe what I am hearing today; where did the Most High God Himself ever say any of His Law was void, inert or no longer applicable?
Oh yes it includes the Sunday morning. The Jewish day begins at evening and continues to the following evening. So between the evenings is the morning and throughout the day.No... the disciples including Paul, gathered for what is called Havdallah... and end of Sabbath meal and prayer for the coming week. Once done, Paul taught. That was on what we call a Saturday night. But because the bible begins it's day at sundown, it was the first day of the week.... but still not Sunday morning.
You have provided yourself a lie just so you can deny that the first century believers went to worship God on Sunday.So not on Sunday as you know it today, and no mandate.
I disagree. The book of Hebrews and other epistles of Paul states that any one can enter into God's rest on any day of the week.Just because somebody gathered and taught on any day doesn't decree that day supersedes something God set apart at Creation.
The apostle Paul stated in 2 Tim.3:16 that all scriptures are God breathed. In Hebrews 1 it states that in the OT God spoke through Moses and the prophets but that now in the NT God speaks through His Son.That isn't what 1 Timothy says. Think about it, first of all, God made some animals food, and some were not food. Second, in 1 Timothy 4, the context of verses 3 and 4 are tied to 5 which says, "for it sanctified by the word of God and prayer." It, is that which was received, and that which was received was set apart by the Word of God. Well guess what... there was no NT back then, not until about 200AD. So the "Word of God" was the Tanach, the OT... and there the only thing set apart to be received as food are those things God created to be food.
It doesn't state that they aren't for us today. The Sabbath and the new moon is involved in the Jewish feasts that will never be done away with.If the Sabbath and New Moon gathering are not for us, and not for today.... then there isn't anything to judge because they don't exist anymore.
At the same time.. you Sabbath only worshipers are not to judge us who worship on Sunday. Nor seek to convert us or imply that we are not following the Bible and therefore if we seek to obey God, then we must (according to you) worship only on the Sabbath.But they do exist, and we are to gather on these days and we shouldn't be bothered when others, who don't understand, judge us.
No. Your theology is seeking to be acceptable to God even so far as going away from what is Biblical.You are part of Israel now, whether you know it today or not.
That is speaking of our sharing in the inheritance of the saints. That does not require that we become Israel in order to fulfill it.As Paul wrote in Ephesians 2, you WERE a gentile and WERE an alien of the Commonwealth of Israel but are NOW through the blood of Christ, a fellow citizen.
Until the end of the OT and the establishing of the NT.And as part of Israel, the Sabbath remains and perpetual (everlasting, never ending) sign of the covenant.
Jesus set it apart when He rose from the dead on that day. Friday and Saturday He was still dead in the tomb.First of all, there is nothing that says to set apart Sunday. Nothing... not one verse.
I do. However, around 8AM on Sunday morning .. I go to church to worship with other believers who rejoice also in their salvation and having been raised from the dead. In the new dawn, a new day unto resurrection life. Which Biblically nor spiritually cannot be done on Saturday.Second, if WHEN he rose matters that much to you, then you need to get up BEFORE sunrise on Sunday to celebrate the time.
I do hope that the morning of His resurrection is important to you. I do hope that your identity is in Christ Jesus and not in Israel.Because at sunrise, the tomb was ALREADY empty, he had ALREADY risen... and yet you wait many hours to celebrate because the day he rose is so important to you?
You are seeking for a definite verse that would tell you word for word to worship on Sunday. I see the example of the NT body of believers that did it. They were Jews, who taught the Gentiles by example. So how can you, a Gentile, be more right than they are?I don't care what you do... I don't even think you are wrong to gather on Sunday... all I am saying is, not one verse says the Sabbath is not for today, and not one verse says to replace it with Sunday.
No you can't exactly tell me.. but I can exactly tell you.I can tell you EXACTLY when and why SOME Hellenized Jews began to keep Sunday and when it became the majority practice.
I've indicated above from where I take my instruction.Don't waste your time on this.
It was Paul who taught the believers about grace. He told the Galatians to cease from following the law.There were two Pharisaical schools in that day, one taught the letter of the law, one taught the spirit of the law. Paul went to the law and yet still killed Christians. I would think you can't fully explain the difference between the two.
So, you deny 2 Cor.3:6?I will... the letter ALONE kills... it doesn't say the letter kills.
I read that to mean that, the letter without the love of God, kills. But you didn't mention the love of God at all as the motive why you should not steal or commit adultery.. etc. So I'm thinking that you are living your religious life by the letter of the law. No other motivation than naked obedience. Am I wrong?Do not steal still applies... don't take something that belongs to somebody else. But don't even set your heart on taking it because when you do, you have already sinned. THAT is the spirit behind the letter. Don't believe me... go look at messiah's examples. To lay with another's wife is adultery... STILL adultery. But to do so in the heart is ALSO adultery. To physically kill your brother is murder... to hate in the heart is the same.
But like the Galatians you aren't living in NT grace, but according to the OT law.God gives grace, period.
Instead of saying that. You could have explained it to me.You could have asked for an explanation rather than tell me what I do makes no sense. It does... if you want to hear it. If not it will always just not make sense.
I take it that you are explaining how you see it. Not that you are telling me something that I hadn't known.You are spiritually raised when you come to Him in faith. Once done it's done, it isn't a recurring event. "Now we are the children of God and it does not yet appear what WE SHALL BE."
The work is not done, we are not to camp at the cross... we are to come in faith believing and then begin a journey where we learn what God's will is for our lives and walk it out the best we can... learning from any mistakes we make and we will make them.
The return to the OT worship on Saturday is a bondage that doesn't acknowledge the freedom from the OT observances.. and instead embrace fully the life that there is in Christ.You make this sound like bondage when it is joy to be part of His family!
It depends on what rabbinical commentary you rely on. In Israel the elevators stop on every floor from sundown Friday til sundown Saturday. This is because they thought pushing an elevator button is work. They are not allowed to light a candle during the Sabbath as it is work. They cooked enough food for 24 hours before Sabbath began. The Orthodox can not walk more than about half a mile on Sabbath. Some blocked off their neighborhoods so people could not drive there during the Sabbath.Why, because they were hungry. The law does not forbid to eat on Shabbat. They were not harvesting, nor cooking...
You pick and choose what you think is God’s law. If it says in the Books of Moses to stone an adulterer, do you not think that is God’s law? Surely you should not stone an adulterer. Do you agree?
It depends on what rabbinical commentary you rely on. In Israel the elevators stop on every floor from sundown Friday til sundown Saturday. This is because they thought pushing an elevator button is work. They are not allowed to light a candle during the Sabbath as it is work. They cooked enough food for 24 hours before Sabbath began. The Orthodox can not walk more than about half a mile on Sabbath. Some blocked off their neighborhoods so people could not drive there during the Sabbath.
It depends on what rabbinical commentary you rely on. In Israel the elevators stop on every floor from sundown Friday til sundown Saturday. This is because they thought pushing an elevator button is work. They are not allowed to light a candle during the Sabbath as it is work. They cooked enough food for 24 hours before Sabbath began. The Orthodox can not walk more than about half a mile on Sabbath. Some blocked off their neighborhoods so people could not drive there during the Sabbath.
The written laws described as from Moses are in the the Torah. Laws of God outside of the the Pentateuch were described by Paul as faith or prophesy. Jesus came not to do away with laws against murder or adultery, but to show what works might be done by one who believes. He healed many people.How are these not ways to get around the Law? Weren’t and don’t they remain the fruit of uncircumcised hearts? For me they are. Paul wrote of himself as being to the Law perfect and under Grace saw Himself as the Chief of sinners. Where then is bragging excludedby the Law or by Grace? Paul s{
I have. It unfortunately made it a large post.I do hope you address some of the things I shared in my other response to you, but I wanted to add a thought.
This is extra padding that is not the topic of worship on Saturday versus Sunday.Jesus didn't come to die so that "do not steal" was no longer binding.
I know of it already.He didn't die so that a man could now lay with a man as he would a woman. He didn't die so that when we dig a hole for some reason on our property and somebody walks by and falls in and gets hurt, that we are no longer responsible... and yes, that is a commandment.
This should be addressed on another thread.What he DID come to die for was to nail our guilty verdict to the cross... he came to reverse the curse of sin and death... reverse what the first Adam introduced into this world.
That is not how I read it.He also came for another reason, he came to show us how God's expects us all to walk. Let me share with you a verse that is entirely misunderstood. In fact, it is taken completely opposite to how it should be understood.
“Do not think that I have come to do away with the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to do away with them but to fulfill them.
In the above verse, the word "fulfill" is taken by most Christians to mean, "do away with, abolish."
In thinking a moment.. this sort of fictional unbiblically taught person you portray.. as apparently not having access to the many bible tools, original language and commentaries to research online for themselves.So, read it that way....
“Do not think that I have come to do away with the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to do away with them but to do away with them."
You bet it doesn't make sense. The whole idea that anyone would read it like that is a big assumption on your part.Doesn't make sense...
The fulfillment that Jesus is speaking of is His sacrificial obedience. As it states. "In the book of the law it is written of Me to do Your will O God." What is that? It is said by John the baptist "Behold, the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world." And of course there's the well known John 3:16.the verse contradicts itself by the manner in which we interpret "fulfill." In fact, it not only contradicts itself, it contradicts the next two verses which speak about law being here unless heaven and earth are passed away... which they are not.
Of course you would use the information to support your Sabbath keeping tradition. While at the same time ignoring the scriptures that I provide that indicates that the OT strick keeping of the Sabbath-Saturday ignores and doesn't acknowledge the resurrection of Christ on Sunday.. through Whom we live our new lives in the dispensation of grace.So then, what does "fulfill" mean in this verse?
According to Thayer, there is an alternate defintion of pleroo (the underlying Greek word) that really brings Matt. 5:17 to life, for me anyway. It says:
Pleroo (G4137) - to fulfil, i.e. to cause God’s will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God’s promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfillment.
He walked out the law and prophets to the fullness of God's desire, the fullness of God's expectations. He walked it out perfectly and in doing so... blazed a path we can follow. We now understand HOW to walk the walk and are to FOLLOW HIM.
You imagine wrongly that I would not know of or think of that scripture as well.So, we FOLLOW HIM. We do as he did, think as he thought, love as he loved, etc. And don't come back saying this isn't possible... to save you time, my reply will be, "I can do ALL THINGS through Christ who strengthens me."
You forget that Jesus arose on the first day of the week. So that is the day to worship Him.So if he kept the Sabbath, how can we say we follow him if we keep a different day?
Does it say in the NT that Gentiles are to keep the Passover.. on the same day that the Jews observe it?If he kept Passover, how can we say we follow him if we don't?
Indeed you are following your own traditions of men.If we eat pork and pork would NEVER have touched his lips... then how can we say, "I follow the Lord." Because clearly, we are following our desires and/or our tradition.
I disagree. You are seeking to direct me to your way of thinking.. to your traditions. And thereby forsake my freedom in Christ and take upon me once again an OT yoke of bondage.I am not questioning your heart, or your love for the Lord. I am simply posing questions to create some thought independent and outside of, tradition.
As all of your unnecessary traditions that frustrate grace are between you and God.That's how I see this, and if you see it otherwise, that's fine, that's between you and God.
It does not matter Moses glory of that Shining on his face was already fading long before the 2,000 years. This vvvvootthat it be replaced by the Covenant Grace first given through Abraham whose Glory is Jesus Christ a Glory that will never fade.Yes, seems confused. In Scripture, it was only a few thousand years ago (the Jews can tell more precisely, as can any Biblical expositor who looks into it in the timelines in Scripture)... it was only a few thousand years ago that Yahuweh gave the ten words (commandments) to Moses and the Israelites. (and TORAH)
The verse in Colossians means that Jesus Christ's finished work is complete. He obeyed the law of God and then took the penalty of death we deserved for our disobedience to it. The law is still in effect, but it is for unbelievers, not Christians (1 Timothy 1:8-11). Christians now live by grace through faith (Galatians 3:11); responding to the indwelling Holy Spirit guiding us from within. And, as the Bible says, "love is the fulfillment of the law (Romans 13:10)." We don't live by following commandments because a commandment is a law. And because of the forgiveness we have (Colossians 2:13), there is no penalty for violating the law. Therefore, the law is obsolete in our lives (Romans 5:13; Galatians 5:23). We use the law to show an unbeliever that they are spiritually dead to God in sin, not to live by.Hello!
So ive been thinking abut this and im a bit confused. God put the 10 commandments in place billions of years ago which lead up to todays generation. When jesus came around, he said,"I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it" And one prophecy concerning the sabbath (wrking on sunday? idk) says in amos, "When will the new moon be over that we may sell grain, and the sabbath be ended..." Amos 8:5 and then the lord answers in verse 9. When jesus is asked by a rich man about which commandments to follow he replies with, "you shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, steal, give false testimony, honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 19:18) And in Colossians, it appears that the mosaic law was taken away when scripture says, "having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us, he has taken away, nailing it to the cross.' (Colossians 2:14) Here are my questions: What does this verse mean?, If jesus fulfilled ceremonial law, then wouldn't that take away the sabbath? Which commandments do we follow if this is the case? From a fellow believer- Michael V
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