LDS Come Unto Christ

[drstevej]

Members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints believe in following the living prophet. The living prophet today is Russell M. Nelson.

This prophet resembles Joseph Smith more than...

 

[He is the way]

This prophet resembles Joseph Smith more than...

But will he look that good when he is 94?

 

[dzheremi]

If you think Warren Jeffs is going to make it to 94 while in prison for being a serial child molester then I've got some land to sell you in Zarahemla.

 

[He is the way]

If you think Warren Jeffs is going to make it to 94 while in prison for being a serial child molester then I've got some land to sell you in Zarahemla.

No I don't think he will make it to 94, but I think president Nelson is pretty spry for 94.

 

[Rescued One]

Members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints believe in following the living prophet. The living prophet today is Russell M. Nelson.

(Old Testament | Jeremiah 25:4)

4 And the LORD hath sent unto you all his servants the prophets, rising early and sending them; but ye have not hearkened, nor inclined your ear to hear.


(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 1:38)

38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.

You can't be Mormon without believing that Joseph Smith was a prophet. And it's really funny that you think I don't know that Mormons follow their living prophets. Mormons claim to be the only true church which requires converts to accept your teachings from the time of Joseph Smith as well as following the present day prophet.

 

[He is the way]

You can't be Mormon without believing that Joseph Smith was a prophet. And it's really funny that you think I don't know that Mormons follow their living prophets. Mormons claim to be the only true church which requires converts to accept your teachings from the time of Joseph Smith as well as following the present day prophet.

In your post you said: Mormons teach that we have to Come Unto Joseph Smith if we want to Come Unto Christ. I tried that and it wasn't the WAY.
While it is true that we do believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, we do not come unto Joseph Smith in order to come unto Christ. The Bible teaches everyone to follow the prophet. And, as you know, we are to follow the living prophet.

 

[BigDaddy4]

In your post you said: Mormons teach that we have to Come Unto Joseph Smith if we want to Come Unto Christ. I tried that and it wasn't the WAY.
While it is true that we do believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, we do not come unto Joseph Smith in order to come unto Christ. The Bible teaches everyone to follow the prophet. And, as you know, we are to follow the living prophet.

The Bible teaches no such thing. The prophets of the OT teach everyone to follow God. In the NT, we are to follow Jesus (who is God).

 

[dzheremi]

Yeah, if anything the NT teaches more the opposite, as when St. Paul calls those who single out particular apostles to follow ("I am of Paul!" "I am of Apollos!") "carnal". In Biblical terms (and Christianity more generally), being carnal is a bad thing.

 

[He is the way]

The Bible teaches no such thing. The prophets of the OT teach everyone to follow God. In the NT, we are to follow Jesus (who is God).

The Bible does teach us to listen to the prophets:

(New Testament | Luke 16:30 - 31)

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

(Old Testament | Amos 3:7)

7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

 

[dzheremi]

Did you miss the part where the Prophets told everyone to follow God, HITW? In other words, no prophet is to be listened to of themselves, just because they claim to be a prophet. The message has to match up with what God actually tells them, or else they are fraud, and are not to be followed. Some texts suggest that they are even to be killed (e.g., Deuteronomy 18:20).

Seems like kind of an important detail in understanding what the scriptures mean, including their warnings of the coming of false prophets, which you and every other Mormon and other restorationist on the planet seem to have missed...say, how did JS die, again? Hmmm...

 

[He is the way]

Yeah, if anything the NT teaches more the opposite, as when St. Paul calls those who single out particular apostles to follow ("I am of Paul!" "I am of Apollos!") "carnal". In Biblical terms (and Christianity more generally), being carnal is a bad thing.

(New Testament | Revelation 11:18)

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

[He is the way]

Did you miss the part where the Prophets told everyone to follow God, HITW? In other words, no prophet is to be listened to of themselves, just because they claim to be a prophet. The message has to match up with what God actually tells them, or else they are fraud, and are not to be followed. Some texts suggest that they are even to be killed (e.g., Deuteronomy 18:20).

Seems like kind of an important detail in understanding what the scriptures mean, including their warnings of the coming of false prophets, which you and every other Mormon and other restorationist on the planet seem to have missed...say, how did JS die, again? Hmmm...

(New Testament | Revelation 11:18)

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Does this sound like a warning from a false prophet?

(Book of Mormon | Moroni 7:4 - 23)

4 And now my brethren, I judge these things of you because of your peaceable walk with the children of men.
5 For I remember the word of God which saith by their works ye shall know them; for if their works be good, then they are good also.
6 For behold, God hath said a man being evil cannot do that which is good; for if he offereth a gift, or prayeth unto God, except he shall do it with real intent it profiteth him nothing.
7 For behold, it is not counted unto him for righteousness.
8 For behold, if a man being evil giveth a gift, he doeth it grudgingly; wherefore it is counted unto him the same as if he had retained the gift; wherefore he is counted evil before God.
9 And likewise also is it counted evil unto a man, if he shall pray and not with real intent of heart; yea, and it profiteth him nothing, for God receiveth none such.
10 Wherefore, a man being evil cannot do that which is good; neither will he give a good gift.
11 For behold, a bitter fountain cannot bring forth good water; neither can a good fountain bring forth bitter water; wherefore, a man being a servant of the devil cannot follow Christ; and if he follow Christ he cannot be a servant of the devil.
12 Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.
13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.
14 Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.
15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.
18 And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.
19 Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ.
20 And now, my brethren, how is it possible that ye can lay hold upon every good thing?
21 And now I come to that faith, of which I said I would speak; and I will tell you the way whereby ye may lay hold on every good thing.
22 For behold, God knowing all things, being from everlasting to everlasting, behold, he sent angels to minister unto the children of men, to make manifest concerning the coming of Christ; and in Christ there should come every good thing.
23 And God also declared unto prophets, by his own mouth, that Christ should come.

 

[dzheremi]

Good Lord...are you really this dense? Nobody is denying that prophets have existed and that they are servants of God and hence to be followed (so there is no problem or conflict with any Bible verse you can post, though all that BOM nonsense is nothing, so it doesn't add anything, because no Christian is ever going to treat it as anything authoritative), but it is because they serve God that they are followed, not because they are styled "prophets", and "well, duh, the Bible says we have to follow prophets/the ancient Jews should have followed prophets". In other words, there are plenty of false prophets like Muhammad, Joseph Smith, Felix Manalo, etc. whose existence does not call into question the role and importance of prophets as a thing, but who are not to be followed because the content of their messages clearly marks them as false.

This really isn't that hard to understand.

 

[He is the way]

Good Lord...are you really this dense? Nobody is denying that prophets have existed and that they are servants of God and hence to be followed (so there is no problem or conflict with any Bible verse you can post, though all that BOM nonsense is nothing, so it doesn't add anything, because no Christian is ever going to treat it as anything authoritative), but it is because they serve God that they are followed, not because they are styled "prophets", and "well, duh, the Bible says we have to follow prophets/the ancient Jews should have followed prophets". In other words, there are plenty of false prophets like Muhammad, Joseph Smith, Felix Manalo, etc. whose existence does not call into question the role and importance of prophets as a thing, but who are not to be followed because the content of their messages clearly mark them as false.

This really isn't that hard to understand.

Joseph Smith was not a false prophet nor would a false prophet write the passage I quoted. I know that passage is from God.

 

[dzheremi]

Okay then. This is not a Mormon meetinghouse, so there's no reason to bear your testimony at me.

Joseph Smith was a false prophet and you can 'know' that a ham sandwich is from God, but that doesn't make it so.

 

[Peter1000]

Born of water is a reference to vaginal birth....

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Have you ever studied the difference between 'water' and the 'amniotic fluid' in a woman's womb as she carries a child? I didn't think so, because the bible says you are to be baptized of 'water' not
'amniotic fluid' which is mostly baby 'urine', and other properties, and very little 'water'.

Whoever suggested that the baptism of 'water' given by the savior was a vaginal birth, didn't think that through very well.

I am not sure why you try so hard to side-step 'baptism of water' as essential to salvation, the bible must say it 10 times as important. Is it because Jesus mentions 'water' before 'spirit' that throws you? I know you believe that the baptism of the spirit is essential, but what comes first, the baptism of water or the baptism of the spirit? Jesus says water then spirit.

The logical biblical answer is 'water, then spirit', cleansed by water, sanctified by the spirit. But you are so stuck on 'spirit' that you cannot have anything to do with 'water' first. So someone came up with the idea that the 'water' had to do with birth, not baptism, and that solved everything, except being baptized of the 'amniotic fluid' is not like being baptized of the 'water'.

Nice try, but you must think again.

 

[Peter1000]

You can't be Mormon without believing that Joseph Smith was a prophet. And it's really funny that you think I don't know that Mormons follow their living prophets. Mormons claim to be the only true church which requires converts to accept your teachings from the time of Joseph Smith as well as following the present day prophet.

We revere JS and we learn from his teachings, but we follow our current prophet. For instance, we do not practice plural marriage as JS taught. Our current prophet says the Lord does not want us to practice plural marriage at this time.

 

[Peter1000]

Okay then. This is not a Mormon meetinghouse, so there's no reason to bear your testimony at me.

Joseph Smith was a false prophet and you can 'know' that a ham sandwich is from God, but that doesn't make it so.

Why do you think there has not been a 'prophet' since the time of Christ?

 

[drstevej]

We revere JS and we learn from his teachings, but we follow our current prophet. For instance, we do not practice plural marriage as JS taught. Our current prophet says the Lord does not want us to practice plural marriage at this time.

If plural marriage can be an off and on thing, could blacks be banned from the priesthood again under a new prophet?

 

[BigDaddy4]

The Bible does teach us to listen to the prophets:

You said "follow" the prophets, not listen. Are you changing your tune now that you've been proven incorrect?

And why should we listen to the prophets? Because they point us to follow God!