Col.2{16} uhhh...cording to scripture

[WailingWall]

Paul points out that the changes in the law which occured when Christ came, were prophesied in the law. For example:
a new temple (Ex. 25:40)
a new priesthood (Ps. 110:1)
a new sacrifice (Ps. 40:6-8)
a new covenant (Jer. 31:31-34)

When the law prophesies a change, its not being partial to accept that change.

In the heavenly temple where Jesus ministers as our High Priest (Heb. 8:2), is the Ark of the Covenant (Rev. 11:19). The Sabbath commandment remains unchanged. This is in keeping with Matthew 5:17-19.

Marc

My point was that Gods feast day sabbaths are still to be observed.

 

[mrasell]

And Hebrews 7:12 clearly shows jots and tittles of the law have changed or Jesus is a sinner and can not be the spotless lamb required for salvation and redemption. So what is the truth?

bugkiller

"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law" Heb. 7:12

There has been a change in the priesthood, as prophesied in the law (Psalm 110:1), we are now under the priesthood of Melchizedek, Jesus is our High Priest.

Marc

 

[WailingWall]

"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law" Heb. 7:12

There has been a change in the priesthood, as prophesied in the law (Psalm 110:1), we are now under the priesthood of Melchizedek, Jesus is our High Priest.

Marc

Yes Jesus is now our high priest. And there has been a change {fulfillment} in the law. We need not sacrifice animals (meat and drink offerings).

JOHN 6 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.

 

[bugkiller]

The feast day sabbaths are to still be kept by who?

bugkiller

 

[mrasell]

Yes Jesus is now our high priest. And there has been a change {fulfillment} in the law. We need not sacrifice animals (meat and drink offerings).

JOHN 6 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.

I agree that we don't need animal sacrifices etc. but a change in the law does not mean a complete abolition of all moral principles in the law, which are God's eternal moral law, the 10 Commandments. These laws are in the heavenly temple where Jesus ministers as our High Priest (Heb. 8:1-2; Rev. 11:19).

Jesus did not come to abolish the 10 Commandments, the Greek word used in Mt. 5:17 pleroo can mean either:
(a) abolish
(b) fill something up (e.g. Acts 13:52 - the disciples filled with the Holy Spirit)

He said I came NOT to destroy BUT to fulfill, clearly the word is being used in the second sense, to fill with meaning. This is in harmony with Isaiah 42:21 which prophesied that the Messiah would magnify the law.

Jesus showed what he meant, when he taught that not only murder is a sin, but so is anger, and not only adultery but lust. Thus he did not abolish the law, but filled it with meaning.

Marc

 

[WailingWall]

Jesus did not come to abolish the 10 Commandments, the Greek word used in Mt. 5:17 pleroo can mean either:

Marc

I know that.

 

[bugkiller]

If Jesus is your High Priest either the law has been changed or God (Jesus) is a sinner. So take your pick. The law in not immutable as some claim.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Who is arguing the NC abolishes any of the moral principles in the law? The only people I know of that bring such a thing up is the SDA folks.

Some people need to get a grip on the covenants. A replaced covenant effective kills, abolishes, renders in effective, retires, makes obsolete. The same however does not destroy anything.


If anger is a sin then Jesus sinned. We have permission to be angry and not sin - Eph 4:26

bugkiller

 

[WailingWall]

Some people need to get a grip on the covenants.
bugkiller

EXOD.34 [28] And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables THE WORDS OF THE COVENANT, THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.

Theres one of those covenants we need to grip

ROMANS 7 [14] For we know that THE LAW IS SPIRITUAL: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

In Romans 7 we see that the law is spiritual

ROMANS 15 [25] But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.[26] For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.[27] It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. FOR IF THE GENTILES HAVE BEEN MADE PARTAKERS OF THEIR SPIRITUAL THINGS, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

The gentiles have been made partakers of Gods law.

JOHN 4 [23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. [24] GOD IS A SPIRIT: AND THEY THAT WORSHIP HIM MUST WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH.

True worshipers will worship in SPIRIT AND TRUTH

JOHN 14 [15] IF YE LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. [16] AND I WILL PRAY THE FATHER, AND HE SHALL GIVE YOU ANOTHER COMFORTER, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] EVEN THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH;

How are we to recieve this Spirit of truth? Keeping Gods 10 commandments

 

[Clare73]

Theres so many scriptures that speak about the meat and drink off the new moons, feast days and sabbaths. Why are they ignored? Scripture will interpret scripture. Seems that Col.2{16} has been interpreted by man alone. So what does that scripture say uhhh....cording to scripture.

It's about the conflict between believers and the Judaizers, who maintained one had to become a Jew by circumcision and obey the law in order to be saved in the NT (Ac 15:5).

These Judaizers were condemning believers who did not observe the feasts of the law.
Paul is instructing the believers that the regulations of the Mosaic law were only shadows (Heb 10:1) and types of the things that were to come in the NT, and that the reality of them is now found in Christ,
that contrary to the Judaizers' claims that non-practice of the OT feasts was deficient, the truth was
that in the NT they had the realities of the feasts, the true feasts, in Christ.

Therefore, the reality being here, the shadows of it are now weak and beggarly (Gal 4:9-10), useless (Heb 7:18),
and set aside (Heb 9:10).

In the faith,
Clare

 

[WailingWall]

It's about the conflict between believers and the Judaizers, who maintained one had to become a Jew by circumcision and obey the law in order to be saved in the NT (Ac 15:5).

These Judaizers were condemning believers who did not observe the feasts of the law.
Paul is instructing the believers that the regulations of the Mosaic law were only shadows (Heb 10:1) and types of the things that were to come in the NT, and that the reality of them is now found in Christ,
that contrary to the Judaizers' claims that non-practice of the OT feasts was deficient, the truth was
that in the NT they had the realities of the feasts, the true feasts, in Christ.

Therefore, the reality being here, the shadows of it are now weak and beggarly (Gal 4:9-10), useless (Heb 7:18),
and set aside (Heb 9:10).

In the faith,
Clare

I could scripturally address everything you wrote but ill just address one point

GAL.4 [8] Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.[9] But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?[10] YE OBSERVE DAYS, AND MONTHS, AND TIMES, AND YEARS.[11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Galatians 4 says nothing about sabbaths or feast days. Its speaking of those who observe times.

DEUT.18 [9] When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, OR AN OBSERVER OF TIMES, or an enchanter, or a witch,[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

The same thing goes on to this very day. Its speaking of the occult. Those who observe certain days by use of horoscopes?

2 CHR.33 [3] For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.[4] Also he built altars in the house of the LORD, whereof the LORD had said, In Jerusalem shall my name be for ever.[5] And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD.[6] And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: ALSO HE OBSERVED TIMES, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger

Enchantments, witchcraft, familiar spirits, and wizards. Its speaking of the occult. Not following sabbath days.

LEV.19 [26] Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, NOR OBSERVE TIMES.[27] Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.[28] Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.[29] Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a harlot; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.[30] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

I guess this scripture says it all. You shall not observe times BUT you will keep my sabbaths.

 

[Epiphoskei]

That's a completely untenable interpretation of Paul's criticism of the Galatians. Are we to believe the false teachers in Galatia were teaching both that one had to be circumcised according to Moses and that the Galatians should observe horoscopes banned by the same law?

 

[Steve Petersen]

If you look at the Greek 'observe' in Galatians 4;10 you will see that it is NOT the same Greek word used in the Septuagint (Greek OT) as 'observe' in relation to God's commandments.

The Greek (Thayers 3906)in Galatians 4:10 also means 'to take note of or pay attention to.' This is the only place in the NT that the word is used.

The Greek (Thayers 5083) used in other places in the NT for 'observe' in the sense of 'keeping commandments' is different. It is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew 'shamar' which means to guard and keep.

In Jesus day, Jews were forbidden to do business with Gentiles on or near pagan holidays. This is the sense in which they 'took note of' days.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Col. 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival, (or feast day) or new moons.
What is Paul talking about here? Let’s read what he says. In verse 8 he warns us not to be fooled by the traditions of men. Verses 20, 22 warn us not to be subject to the rules of this world and commandments of men.

Col. 2 is actually a condemnation of acetic human philosophy. This is not a discussion of whether or not God’s laws are binding on Christians.

The church in Colosse was in the mist of a pagan gentile country. There is no question here of whether they were keeping God’s laws; rather they are being warned not to let themselves be judged by, or be influenced by the people around them. They are not being told to dismiss God’s Law. They were being encouraged to keep on keeping God’s Law in the mist of these worldly influences.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by WailingWall

The scripture above is the scripture used by all the sunday go to meetin denominations to rid themselves of Gods sabbath day. Its also their biggy to eat their piggy. There are many places in your bible which discuss the meat and the drink offerings of the holy days, new moons and the sabbath but they are ignored by the “many”.

... the many will go on believing what they’ve been taught by the sunday morning pulpiteers.

That's one good reason not be a sunday morning pulpitee.

There is actually a word like that!

pul·pit·eer

Usually Disparaging.
a preacher by profession.

dis·par·ag·ing
adjective tending to belittle or bring reproach upon

"This pulpit needs some remodeling"

 

[usexpat97]

Interesting that a thread can go on for 8 pages now over one Scripture verse that really is pretty clear.

 

[ErminlindaRika]

So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. (Colossians 2:16)

It means what it says. Freedom from rules & new life in Christ.

 

[bugkiller]

I could scripturally address everything you wrote but ill just address one point

GAL.4 [8] Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.[9] But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?[10] YE OBSERVE DAYS, AND MONTHS, AND TIMES, AND YEARS.[11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Galatians 4 says nothing about sabbaths or feast days. Its speaking of those who observe times.

Should that be ah boloney or abalone?

Paul is dealing with the Judaizers here. The battle did not end at the Council in Jerusalem. And apparently it will never end because there are those who demand obligation to the law against the clear written Word of God called the Scripture commonly known as the Bible.

DEUT.18 [9] When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, OR AN OBSERVER OF TIMES, or an enchanter, or a witch,[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

The same thing goes on to this very day. Its speaking of the occult. Those who observe certain days by use of horoscopes?

Did you come into the land, are you Jewish by natural heritage, or perhaps have taken on the covenant given strictly to the Israelites?

2 CHR.33 [3] For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.[4] Also he built altars in the house of the LORD, whereof the LORD had said, In Jerusalem shall my name be for ever.[5] And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD.[6] And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: ALSO HE OBSERVED TIMES, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger

Enchantments, witchcraft, familiar spirits, and wizards. Its speaking of the occult. Not following sabbath days.

LEV.19 [26] Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, NOR OBSERVE TIMES.[27] Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.[28] Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.[29] Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a harlot; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.[30] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

I guess this scripture says it all. You shall not observe times BUT you will keep my sabbaths.

Exactly who is this YE I highlighted?

bugkiller

 

[Clare73]

I could scripturally address everything you wrote but ill just address one point

GAL.4 [8] Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.[9] But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?[10] YE OBSERVE DAYS, AND MONTHS, AND TIMES, AND YEARS.[11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Galatians 4 says nothing about sabbaths or feast days.

Gal 4:6 speaks of the weak and beggarly elements of the law,
which have been set aside because they are weak and useless to obtain righteousness (Heb 7:18-19).

Its speaking of those who observe times.

Yes, the Feasts were times, as much as eight-day times.

DEUT.18 [9] When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.[10] There shall not be found among you any one that. . .useth divination, OR AN OBSERVER OF TIMES, or an enchanter, or a witch,[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

Its speaking of the occult.

Does your "baloney" detector not work?

The believers in Galatia were practicing the occult?

You're joking, right?

In the faith,
Clare

 

[bugkiller]

EXOD.34 [28] And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables THE WORDS OF THE COVENANT, THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.

Theres one of those covenants we need to grip

ROMANS 7 [14] For we know that THE LAW IS SPIRITUAL: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

In Romans 7 we see that the law is spiritual

ROMANS 15 [25] But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.[26] For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.[27] It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. FOR IF THE GENTILES HAVE BEEN MADE PARTAKERS OF THEIR SPIRITUAL THINGS, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

The gentiles have been made partakers of Gods law.

JOHN 4 [23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. [24] GOD IS A SPIRIT: AND THEY THAT WORSHIP HIM MUST WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH.

True worshipers will worship in SPIRIT AND TRUTH

JOHN 14 [15] IF YE LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. [16] AND I WILL PRAY THE FATHER, AND HE SHALL GIVE YOU ANOTHER COMFORTER, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] EVEN THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH;

How are we to recieve this Spirit of truth? Keeping Gods 10 commandments

Nice twisting of Scripture.

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Now - present tense

delivered - still prenent tense as well as indicating already done

We - the who that referenceds the Christian regardless on natural heritage See aditionally Gal 3:28

from - showing further severance

The law - the object we are delivered from

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

The commandments referenced in Jn 14:15 are the same one referenced in 15:10 as My commandments. Jesus gave new commandments, not additional commandments.

My Father's commandments are the commmandments issued at and on Mt Sinai strictly and exclusively to the Israelites. Deut 5:3 These are the commandments Jesus obeyed. Jesus did not tell us to sin. Jesus issued commandments in the Sermon on the Mount -

21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time... then quotes the law in several verses followed with -

22 But I say unto you... then states something different from the law also in several places.

bugkiller