Col.2{16} uhhh...cording to scripture

[WailingWall]

Theres so many scriptures that speak about the meat and drink off the new moons, feast days and sabbaths. Why are they ignored? Scripture will interpret scripture. Seems that Col.2{16} has been interpreted by man alone. So what does that scripture say uhhh....cording to scripture.

 

[laconicstudent]

Theres so many scriptures that speak about the meat and drink off the new moons, feast days and sabbaths. Why are they ignored? Scripture will interpret scripture. Seems that Col.2{16} has been interpreted by man alone. So what does that scripture say uhhh....cording to scripture.

Explain more?

 

[RibI]

Theres so many scriptures that speak about the meat and drink off the new moons, feast days and sabbaths. Why are they ignored? Scripture will interpret scripture. Seems that Col.2{16} has been interpreted by man alone. So what does that scripture say uhhh....cording to scripture.

Col. 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival, (or feast day) or new moons.
What is Paul talking about here? Let’s read what he says. In verse 8 he warns us not to be fooled by the traditions of men. Verses 20, 22 warn us not to be subject to the rules of this world and commandments of men.

Col. 2 is actually a condemnation of acetic human philosophy. This is not a discussion of whether or not God’s laws are binding on Christians.

The church in Colosse was in the mist of a pagan gentile country. There is no question here of whether they were keeping God’s laws; rather they are being warned not to let themselves be judged by, or be influenced by the people around them. They are not being told to dismiss God’s Law. They were being encouraged to keep on keeping God’s Law in the mist of these worldly influences.

 

[Athanasias]

Col. 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival, (or feast day) or new moons.
What is Paul talking about here? Let’s read what he says. In verse 8 he warns us not to be fooled by the traditions of men. Verses 20, 22 warn us not to be subject to the rules of this world and commandments of men.

Col. 2 is actually a condemnation of acetic human philosophy. This is not a discussion of whether or not God’s laws are binding on Christians.

The church in Colosse was in the mist of a pagan gentile country. There is no question here of whether they were keeping God’s laws; rather they are being warned not to let themselves be judged by, or be influenced by the people around them. They are not being told to dismiss God’s Law. They were being encouraged to keep on keeping God’s Law in the mist of these worldly influences.

I can see that!

 

[New_Wineskin]

Theres so many scriptures that speak about the meat and drink off the new moons, feast days and sabbaths.

How many ? What do they speak about them ? How do they apply to me ?
.

Why are they ignored?

How are they ignored ?
.

Scripture will interpret scripture.

What passage says that ?
If true , then there is no need to say anything else about them . They will do the talking .
.

Seems that Col.2{16} has been interpreted by man alone.

Why do you say that ?
How do you interpret how "man alone" has interpreted it ?
.

So what does that scripture say uhhh....cording to scripture.

You state "Theres so many scriptures that speak about .." and now you ask what do they say ? How do you you know that so many speak yet not know what they say ?

 

[Frogster]

Col. 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival, (or feast day) or new moons.
What is Paul talking about here? Let’s read what he says. In verse 8 he warns us not to be fooled by the traditions of men. Verses 20, 22 warn us not to be subject to the rules of this world and commandments of men.

Col. 2 is actually a condemnation of acetic human philosophy. This is not a discussion of whether or not God’s laws are binding on Christians.

The church in Colosse was in the mist of a pagan gentile country. There is no question here of whether they were keeping God’s laws; rather they are being warned not to let themselves be judged by, or be influenced by the people around them. They are not being told to dismiss God’s Law. They were being encouraged to keep on keeping God’s Law in the mist of these worldly influences.

I notice you did a jump,from 16,to 20-22.

There was both,but the fact is,Paul did not want them judged for NOT keeping the sabbath.

Look at the context.It was in the same mode as ,"don't let them judge you" for not worshipping angels.

If your post is correct,then we can only assume,that Paul is condoning angel worship.

Col 2;16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind,

So some things in the letter was about human teachings,but was human teachings nailed to the cross,in col 2:14?

Context is a lovely thing.

Thanks.

 

[Steve Petersen]

There was both,but the fact is,Paul did not want them judged for NOT keeping the sabbath.

Within Judaism of Paul's day, there were disputes over which day that Shavuot (a festival sabbath) fell on. Pharisees taught one thing, Saducees another and Essenes yet another. If Gentiles were hanging out in the synagogues as indicated in Acts, they would have been exposed to those disputes and possibly were being pressured to take sides.

Context is a lovely thing.

I agree.

 

[pehkay]

“Let no one therefore judge you in eating and in drinking or in respect of a feast or of a new moon or of the Sabbath, which are a shadow of the things to come, but the body is of Christ. Let no one defraud you by judging you unworthy of your prize”—Col. 2:16-18a:

1. As with a man’s physical body, the body in 2:17 is the substance, and like the shadow of a man’s body, the rituals in the law are a shadow of Christ, who is the substance and reality of the gospel; Colossians unveils such an all-inclusive Christ as the focus of God’s economy—1:17a, 18a; 3:11.

2. Daily, weekly, monthly, and yearly Christ is the reality of every positive thing, implying the universal extensiveness of the all-inclusive Christ:

a. Daily Christ is our food and drink for our satisfaction and strengthening—1 Cor. 10:3-4.
b. Weekly Christ is our Sabbath for our completion and rest in Him—Matt. 11:28-29.
c. Monthly Christ is our new moon as a new beginning with light in darkness—John 1:5; 8:12.
d. Yearly Christ is our feast for our joy and enjoyment—1 Cor. 5:8.
​

3. The extensive Christ, who is full of attractiveness and rich in magnetism, is the essence of the Bible—Luke 24:44; John 5:39-40; Matt. 1:1; cf. Rev. 22:21.

4. According to the context, the “prize” in Colossians 2:18 is the enjoyment of Christ as the body of the shadows; to be defrauded of our prize is to be defrauded of the subjective enjoyment of Christ—cf. Gen. 15:1; Phil. 3:8.

5. Our need is for the subjective Christ to become our enjoyment to complete the divine revelation within us; if we are short in the experience and enjoyment of Christ, we are also short concerning God’s revelation—Col. 1:25-28.

6. Whatever we do day by day should remind us of Christ as the reality of that thing; if we follow the practice of taking Christ as the reality of all the material things in our daily life, our daily walk will be revolutionized and transformed and we will be full of Christ—2 Cor. 4:16; Phil. 1:19-21a.

7. We need to enjoy Christ day by day as the reality of all our necessities:

a. Christ is our breath—John 20:22.
b. Christ is our drink—4:10, 14; 7:37-39a.
c. Christ is our food—6:35, 57.
d. Christ is our light—1:4; 8:12.
e. Christ is our clothing—Gal. 3:27.
f. Christ is our dwelling place—John 15:5, 7a.​

 

[Frogster]

Within Judaism of Paul's day, there were disputes over which day that Shavuot (a festival sabbath) fell on. Pharisees taught one thing, Saducees another and Essenes yet another. If Gentiles were hanging out in the synagogues as indicated in Acts, they would have been exposed to those disputes and possibly were being pressured to take sides.



I agree.

Hi.

Could be,but the reading of it,sure seems to indicate that they should not partake,rather that ,which one day is right.

 

[WailingWall]

Originally Posted by WailingWall

Theres so many scriptures that speak about the meat and drink off the new moons, feast days and sabbaths.
​

How many ? What do they speak about them ? How do they apply to me ?

Here are a few of those scriptures which talk about the same things as Col.2{16}

Neh. 10:33
For the shewbread, and for the continual meat offering, and for the continual burnt offering, of the sabbaths, of the new moons, for the set feasts, and for the holy things, and for the sin offerings to make an atonement for Israel, and for all the work of the house of our God.

Isaiah 1:13-14
Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting. [14] Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

The scripture below has them in the same exact order as Col.2{16}

Ezekiel 45:17
And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

Hosea 2:11
I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

 

[WailingWall]

COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

The scripture above is the scripture used by all the sunday go to meetin denominations to rid themselves of Gods sabbath day. Its also their biggy to eat their piggy. There are many places in your bible which discuss the meat and the drink offerings of the holy days, new moons and the sabbath but they are ignored by the “many”.

1 CHRON. 23 [29] Both for the shewbread, and for the fine flour for meat offering, and for the unleavened cakes, and for that which is baked in the pan, and for that which is fried, and for all manner of measure and size; [30] And to stand every morning to thank and praise the Lord, and likewise at even; [31] And to offer all burnt sacrifices unto the Lord in the sabbaths, in the new moons, and on the set feasts, by number, according to the order commanded unto them, continually before the Lord:

2 CHRON. 2 [4] Behold, I build an house to the name of the Lord my God, to dedicate it to him, and to burn before him sweet incense, and for the continual shewbread, and for the burnt offerings morning and evening, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts of the Lord our God. This is an ordinance for ever to Israel.

You know the new covenant scripture. Jesus nailed the handwriting of the ordinances to the cross.

NEH. 10 [32] Also we made ordinances for us, to charge ourselves yearly with the third part of a shekel for the service of the house of our God; [33] For the shewbread, and for the continual meat offering, and for the continual burnt offering, of the sabbaths, of the new moons, for the set feasts, and for the holy things, and for the sin offerings to make an atonement for Israel, and for all the work of the house of our God.

EZEKIEL 45 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

Heres one. Same exact order as Col.2{16}, meat, drink, holy days (feast days), new moons, sabbaths. What are the odds these 2 scriptures are not speaking about the same thing? A trillion to one? Higher I suppose.

NUMBERS 28 [9] And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof: [10] This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.

Theres the meat and drink offerings for the sabbath days that Col.2 [16] was speaking of.

EZEKIEL 46 [6] And in the day of the new moon it shall be a young bullock without blemish, and six lambs, and a ram: they shall be without blemish. [7] And he shall prepare a meat offering, an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and for the lambs according as his hand shall attain unto, and an hin of oil to an ephah.

The meat offering for the new moon that was spoken of in Col.2 [16].

LEVITICUS 23 [4] These are the feasts of the Lord, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. [5] In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the Lord's passover. [6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread…… [13] And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the Lord for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.

In all the feast days (holy days) meat and drink offerings were written into the laws of commandments contained in the ordinances. The above scripture points out the holy day of passover when Jesus was crucified. So why should we judge no man in meat or drink in respect to holy days, new moons and sabbath days? Because Jesus fulfilled these offerings that were written in the law of commandments contained in the ordinances. The meat and drink offerings are no more to be observed.

WHY?

JOHN 6 [53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Here is a direct rendering from the Greek of Colossians 2:14:

...blotting out the against us handwriting in ordinances which were contrary to us and it has taken out of the midst, nailing it to the cross.

What was nailed to the cross was not the Law, but the list of our offenses against it.

This parallels Roman practice at crucifixion; that of posting a list of offenses for which a person was being executed. That list of OUR offenses was nailed to Christ's cross. Hallelujah!

 

[RibI]

Here is a direct rendering from the Greek of Colossians 2:14:

...blotting out the against us handwriting in ordinances which were contrary to us and it has taken out of the midst, nailing it to the cross.

What was nailed to the cross was not the Law, but the list of our offenses against it.

This parallels Roman practice at crucifixion; that of posting a list of offenses for which a person was being executed. That list of OUR offenses was nailed to Christ's cross. Hallelujah!

Col. 2:14 is one verse people love to use to try to say that Paul did away with God’s Law. We need to understand what this verse is really talking about.
The Romans nailed two things to the cross 1) They nailed Jesus to the cross. 2) They nailed a sign stating that He was the king of the Jews to the cross. (i.e. the charge against Him) But Paul says, (figuratively) that “the handwriting of requirements that was against us” was also nailed to the cross.
This is the only place in the NT that these Greek words (handwriting of requirements) are used. This is a legal document, hand written by the criminal, stating the charges against him, (in our case the charge is that we have sinned; Ro. 3:23) and the debt that he owes. (our debt or penalty is death; Ro. 6:23.) This is what was nailed to the cross, not God’s Law. Read “Friberg Lexicon” and also “Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words” for a further explanation.

“The New Living Translation” makes it much clearer. Cor. 2:14“He canceled the record that contained the charges against us. He took it and destroyed it by nailing it to the cross.” (Not the Law)
Being forgiven for our sins does not give us some special status where the law no longer applys to us. It just gives us a fresh start.

 

[Timothew]

Wailing Wall,

Are you saying that certain sabbaths apply to Christians? And certain meats are forbidden to be eaten? You can't be saying burnt offerings are required.

Christians are not under the law. So there are no required sabbaths. No more burnt offerings are required. All foods are clean. No circumcision is necessary.

I just wanted to make that perfectly clear. I hope I did.
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
That's Romans 10:4

 

[Steve Petersen]

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
That's Romans 10:4

Check the Greek beneath the word 'end.' It is 'telos' meaning 'goal or purpose.'

There is a field of philosophy called teleology: the study of design or purpose.

It is the same word used in 1 Peter 1:9. Here the NIV translates 'telos' as 'goal.'

9for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Why the translators chose to translate 'telos' as 'end' in Romans 10:4 and 'goal' in 1 Peter 1:9 seems to reflect a theological presupposition.

 

[JamesAH]

Can we go 1 day without a Sabbath thread

 

[Frogster]

Here is a direct rendering from the Greek of Colossians 2:14:

...blotting out the against us handwriting in ordinances which were contrary to us and it has taken out of the midst, nailing it to the cross.

What was nailed to the cross was not the Law, but the list of our offenses against it.

This parallels Roman practice at crucifixion; that of posting a list of offenses for which a person was being executed. That list of OUR offenses was nailed to Christ's cross. Hallelujah!

Aaaaand wouldn't you say,that the record of debt,that stood against "US",be from the law?

 

[Frogster]

Check the Greek beneath the word 'end.' It is 'telos' meaning 'goal or purpose.'

There is a field of philosophy called teleology: the study of design or purpose.

It is the same word used in 1 Peter 1:9. Here the NIV translates 'telos' as 'goal.'

9for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Why the translators chose to translate 'telos' as 'end' in Romans 10:4 and 'goal' in 1 Peter 1:9 seems to reflect a theological presupposition.

Romans 10:4
Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Definition
Telos 5056
1) end
1a) termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be
(always of the end of some act or state, but not of the end
of a period of time)
1b) the end
1b1) the last in any succession or series
1b2) eternal
1c) that by which a thing is finished, its close, issue
1d) the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose
2) toll, custom (i.e. indirect tax on goods)

 

[Frogster]

Col. 2:14 is one verse people love to use to try to say that Paul did away with God’s Law. We need to understand what this verse is really talking about.
The Romans nailed two things to the cross 1) They nailed Jesus to the cross. 2) They nailed a sign stating that He was the king of the Jews to the cross. (i.e. the charge against Him) But Paul says, (figuratively) that “the handwriting of requirements that was against us” was also nailed to the cross.
This is the only place in the NT that these Greek words (handwriting of requirements) are used. This is a legal document, hand written by the criminal, stating the charges against him, (in our case the charge is that we have sinned; Ro. 3:23) and the debt that he owes. (our debt or penalty is death; Ro. 6:23.) This is what was nailed to the cross, not God’s Law. Read “Friberg Lexicon” and also “Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words” for a further explanation.

“The New Living Translation” makes it much clearer. Cor. 2:14“He canceled the record that contained the charges against us. He took it and destroyed it by nailing it to the cross.” (Not the Law)
Being forgiven for our sins does not give us some special status where the law no longer applys to us. It just gives us a fresh start.

It had to be the law,how else could all our sins have been forgiven.See the contextual use,and the verse before.


Col 2: 13And you -- being dead in the trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh -- He made alive together with him, having forgiven you all the trespasses, 14having blotted out the handwriting in the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross;


What other ordinances,that were written stood against "us".Paul used "us" universaly.

Look here,ordinances,in the abolished law.


Ephesians2:15
by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law (3551 nomos) of commandments (1785 entole,a commandment of God) contained in ordinances (1378 dogma), so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Col. 2:14 is one verse people love to use to try to say that Paul did away with God’s Law. We need to understand what this verse is really talking about.,,,,,,,,,

,,,This is the only place in the NT that these Greek words (handwriting of requirements) are used. This is a legal document, hand written by the criminal, stating the charges against him, (in our case the charge is that we have sinned; Ro. 3:23) and the debt that he owes. (our debt or penalty is death; Ro. 6:23.) This is what was nailed to the cross, not God’s Law. Read “Friberg Lexicon” and also “Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words” for a further explanation.

“The New Living Translation” makes it much clearer. Cor. 2:14“He canceled the record that contained the charges against us. He took it and destroyed it by nailing it to the cross.” (Not the Law)
Being forgiven for our sins does not give us some special status where the law no longer applys to us. It just gives us a fresh start.

Canceled, blotted-out, out-rubbed

#1813 used 5 times in 5 verses according to ISA.

1 time each in Acts and Coloss 2, 3 times in Revelation.

Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

Colo 2:14 Out-rubbing/blotting-out/exaleiyaV <1813> (5660) the against us hand-writing to the decrees/dogmasin <1378> which was hostile/opposed/upenantion <5227> to us, and has taken away out of the midst, toward-nailing it to the stauros.

Reve 21:4 And He shall be out-rubbing/exaleiyei <1813> every tear out of the eyes of them, and the death not shall be still, neither mourning neither clamor neither misery, not it shall be still. That the former things pass away/aphlqon <565> (5627).

Strong's Number G1813 matches the Greek &#7952;&#958;&#945;&#955;&#949;&#8055;&#966;&#969; (exaleiph&#333, which occurs 6 times in 5 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

1813. exaleipho ex-al-i'-fo from 1537 and 218; to smear out, i.e. obliterate (erase tears, figuratively, pardon sin):--blot out, wipe away.
1537. ek ek or ex ex a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative; direct or remote):--
218. aleipho al-i'-fo from 1 (as particle of union) and the base of 3045; to oil (with perfume):--anoint.