Col 2:16 is about not judging others

myst33 said:

Not for a summary of his letter to few main points.

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It‘s a main point, and having no understanding of the main point is not wise to make a doctrine from, imho.

SabbathBlessings said:

It‘s a main point, and having no understanding of the main point is not wise to make a doctrine from, imho.

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Remember having mathematics in your school? If I say that we should use the variable X in some computation, then I do not need to define what X exactly is, for that.

Imagine that the word "Law" Paul is using is now the variable X. Now, tell me in a concise way, what Paul is saying about the variable "Law" in his letter to Galatians. Whatever your definition of it is.

So that we can finally move on without distraction and infinite digging into definitions. Its called abstraction. We filled almost 2 forum pages without getting anything from you.

myst33 said:

You are free to use any translation or any Greek version you like more. I do not know what you want me to say.

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Nothing, I just wanted you to be aware that it paraphrases a lot.

myst33 said:

I do not care, for now, how you define the Law in Galatians, I want you to summarize what Paul is saying about it.

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It is not how they, you or anyone defines, but how Paul is using the word. With this however the understanding needs to come from the context in which the word is used within the letter to which is the subject.

And on that note in respect to a debate or explaining what the context is, verses need to be shown and an explanation as to how the context is revealed.

Many teach but not all are teachers.

myst33 said:

Remember having mathematics in your school? If I say that we should use the variable X in some computation, then I do not need to define what X exactly is, for that.

Imagine that the word "Law" Paul is using is now the variable X. Now, tell me in a concise way, what Paul is saying about the variable "Law" in his letter to Galatians. Whatever your definition of it is.

So that we can finally move on without distraction and infinite digging into definitions. Its called abstraction. We filled almost 2 forum pages without getting anything from you.

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An abstraction would and can be subjective for the most part. A definition defines what something is therefore is objective and important when dealing with facts and is not an idea which can have no objective bases.

HIM said:

It is not how they, you or anyone defines, but how Paul is using the word. With this however the understanding needs to come from the context in which the word is used within the letter to which is the subject.

And on that note in respect to a debate or explaining what the context is, verses need to be shown and an explanation as to how the context is revealed.

Many teach but not all are teachers.


An abstraction would and can be subjective for the most part. A definition defines what something is therefore is objective and important when dealing with facts and is not an idea which can have no objective bases.

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If you want to join the conversation, you are free to provide your summary of the letter to Galatians and even your definitions, if you wish.

myst33 said:

If you want to join the conversation, you are free to provide your summary of the letter to Galatians and even your definitions, if you wish.

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We are all one in Christ. Not us but Christ.

We are not to sin or want to through Christ, hence no need for law unless one is still sinning. No need for tutors or the schoolmaster. For we are dead nevertheless we live. Yet not us but Christ lives in us and the life we now live in the flesh we live by the faith OF Christ. For we have put on Christ and live through the spirit. For His Law is in our hearts and minds. His Word in our mouth that we do it. That is the Faith in which we preach. We have been given a new Spirit. Us in Him, He in us that the World might believe.


The question was asked what law did Paul set us free from. He didn't God did, and it His Law we are set free from through Christ. We are no longer in bondage to it because we are not breaking it. We are not sinning through Christ. And if we are sinning then we are still under a tutor, the Schoolmaster, the Law and are only living partly in Christ if at all. We are not to be doing the things that we would. We are not under the Schoolmaster, the Law if we are led by the Spirit through Christ and are not sinning. If we are walking in the Spirit we shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. They that are of Christ have crucified the flesh and the lusts thereof through the fruit of the Spirit to which there is no law.

My summary of the book of Galatians for whoever is interested:

Some people in Galatia had become believers in Jesus, and were living what I would call a basic Christian life.

Then some people came, probably from Jerusalem. They told the Galatians they had to keep the law of Moses, which is the instructions in the first five books of the Bible.

Paul's answer is to love other people, suppress the works of the flesh and grow the fruit of the Spirit. Then the law of Moses will take care of itself.

Love you all!

HIM said:

We are not under the Schoolmaster, the Law if we are led by the Spirit through Christ and are not sinning.

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By "we" you mean us Gentiles? Do you think that Gentiles who are sinning are under the Law given to Jews?

Leaf473 said:

Then the law of Moses will take care of itself.

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What do you mean by that?

myst33 said:

By "we" you mean us Gentiles? Do you think that Gentiles who are sinning are under the Law given to Jews?

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There is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ. But in respect to your inquiry.
Who is this to?

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

So with that in mind one who is not led by the Spirit is under the law.

@myst33

Brief summary of Galatians

The Galatians was turning away from Christ and turning to their own gospel, another gospel.

• Paul was charging the Galatians by betraying their calling as Christians
• They were teaching faith in Christ was not enough
• Paul taught circumcision was not required for justification it is faith alone in Christ. Circumcision is mentioned 12 times in Galatians and this was an issue with Jews teaching Gentiles needing to be circumcised for justification and salvation instead of the true gospel
• the gospel is what Christ accomplished for us through His death on the cross and resurrection from the dead. Christ’s death and resurrection did something that we never could do for ourselves. Christ freed His followers from the power of evil, which holds many in bondage
• Gal 1:6-9 there is only one gospel
• Gal 3:8 - that one and only gospel "Was preached to Abraham"

Justified by faith, not works of the law

• We are not justified by the works of the law, it is through faith. Gal 2:16
• Faith is being inseparably connected to Jesus (Christ in us) dying of self- living in Christ
• We are not justified by the works of the law, but through faith it is what Christ does in us
• Genuine faith is a response to God working in us giving consent and in cooperation to His Spirit working through us sanctifying us through His Truth and His Word John 17:17

Saved through faith but how does the faithful live?

• Gal 3:6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” - because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws. Genesis 26:5
• Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. Romans 3:31
• Obedience to God’s law is not a means to salvation, the law brings us to Christ and Christ in us gives us the power to obey Him. The commandments are like a mirror so we know what not to do. Once in Christ His Spirit gives us the power to become a new creature living in His SpiritMatthew 14:15-18 in complete obedience to His will Psalms 40:8, Hebrews 8:10, and commandments. Revelation 14:12
• The law reveals our sinful condition Romans 7:7 and our need for our Saviors grace.
• The fruit of a saved person: Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12

In Christ through faith

• Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
• There is no more Jew or Gentile, just One God and one people, sanctified by the Truth of His Word.
• Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
• We must live as Christ lived as He is our example to follow

Freedom in Christ

• Christ saved His people from the penalty of the law- Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Does this mean we are free to sin? Paul makes this point abundantly clear:
• Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
• Once Christ lives in us we become a new creature no longer a slave to sin, but freedom in Christ without sin through His power.
• Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Those walking in the Spirit submit themselves obedient to God. Acts 5:32 they no longer walk in flesh (sin) and those walking in flesh are in enmity against the law of God Romans 8:7 those walking in the Spirit are in harmony with God’s law and will through love and faithfulness 1 John 5:2-3, Romans 3:31

PS- there’s a couple areas I missed, but ran out of time, will add to soon.

myst33 said:

What do you mean by that?

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I think I'd put it this way:
We don't have to be concerned about performing the physical actions required by the law of Moses. Physical actions like circumcision or refraining from physical activity on the Sabbath.

From the end of Galatians,
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers and sisters. Amen.

Leaf473 said:

I think I'd put it this way:
We don't have to be concerned about performing the physical actions required by the law of Moses. Physical actions like circumcision or refraining from physical activity on the Sabbath.

From the end of Galatians,
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers and sisters. Amen.

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I would rather ask why should Gentiles be concerned about the Mosaic Law in the first place? I think thats one of the Paul's arguments. It was just given to fill the time between Abraham and the Promise, to prepare Israel for the coming of the Son. Gentiles had to undergo special procedures to join this Mosaic Covenant (circumcision and proselytizing).

What I think Paul means is that it makes no sense for Gentiles to try to enter that old order of things (through circumcision) that was just temporary and would put them under another slavery (after they were freed from false gods).

Paul argues - the gifts of the Holy Spirit have been given to you without the Law, so why do you, foolish Galatians, want to finish with flesh, now?

HIM said:

There is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ. But in respect to your inquiry.
Who is this to?

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

So with that in mind one who is not led by the Spirit is under the law.

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Gentiles had to be circumcised and proselytize to be under the law given on Mt Sinai.

So I do not think that the logic "who is not led by the Spirit is under the law" applies. Even more, considering what Paul says in Romans:

"All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law." R 2:12

--- therefore, when Gentiles sin, they do not become being under the law; they simply perish apart from the law

SabbathBlessings said:

@myst33

Brief summary of Galatians

The Galatians was turning away from Christ and turning to their own gospel, another gospel.

• Paul was charging the Galatians by betraying their calling as Christians
• They were teaching faith in Christ was not enough
• Paul taught circumcision was not required for justification it is faith alone in Christ. Circumcision is mentioned 12 times in Galatians and this was an issue with Jews teaching Gentiles needing to be circumcised for justification and salvation instead of the true gospel
• the gospel is what Christ accomplished for us through His death on the cross and resurrection from the dead. Christ’s death and resurrection did something that we never could do for ourselves. Christ freed His followers from the power of evil, which holds many in bondage
• Gal 1:6-9 there is only one gospel
• Gal 3:8 - that one and only gospel "Was preached to Abraham"

Justified by faith, not works of the law

• We are not justified by the works of the law, it is through faith. Gal 2:16
• Faith is being inseparably connected to Jesus (Christ in us) dying of self- living in Christ
• We are not justified by the works of the law, but through faith it is what Christ does in us
• Genuine faith is a response to God working in us giving consent and in cooperation to His Spirit working through us sanctifying us through His Truth and His Word John 17:17

Saved through faith but how does the faithful live?

• Gal 3:6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” - because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws. Genesis 26:5
• Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. Romans 3:31
• Obedience to God’s law is not a means to salvation, the law brings us to Christ and Christ in us gives us the power to obey Him. The commandments are like a mirror so we know what not to do. Once in Christ His Spirit gives us the power to become a new creature living in His SpiritMatthew 14:15-18 in complete obedience to His will Psalms 40:8, Hebrews 8:10, and commandments. Revelation 14:12
• The law reveals our sinful condition Romans 7:7 and our need for our Saviors grace.
• The fruit of a saved person: Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12

In Christ through faith

• Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
• There is no more Jew or Gentile, just One God and one people, sanctified by the Truth of His Word.
• Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
• We must live as Christ lived as He is our example to follow

Freedom in Christ

• Christ saved His people from the penalty of the law- Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Does this mean we are free to sin? Paul makes this point abundantly clear:
• Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
• Once Christ lives in us we become a new creature no longer a slave to sin, but freedom in Christ without sin through His power.
• Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Those walking in the Spirit submit themselves obedient to God. Acts 5:32 they no longer walk in flesh (sin) and those walking in flesh are in enmity against the law of God Romans 8:7 those walking in the Spirit are in harmony with God’s law and will through love and faithfulness 1 John 5:2-3, Romans 3:31

PS- there’s a couple areas I missed, but ran out of time, will add to soon.

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This is not what I asked for and what everybody else understood well, except of you.

I cannot imagine that somebody asks you on the street "what is the letter to Galatians about" and you tell something like this.

Please, for your own sake, simply take your time, it takes half an hour at most, read the letter from the beginning to end like it was meant to be read and make your own summary of what it says, without your church instructions and study materials. Not for me, but for yourself.

If I was to analyze your post, it seems you began reading Galatians, got into first chapters, tried to do the summary that is in the beginning of your post and then you gave up and reused some prepared theological materials that just had slightly more verses from Galatians than your other materials.

myst33 said:

This is not what I asked for and what everybody else understood well, except of you.

I cannot imagine that somebody asks you on the street "what is the letter to Galatians about" and you tell something like this.

Please, for your own sake, simply take your time, it takes half an hour at most, read the letter from the beginning to end like it was meant to be read and make your own summary of what it says, without your church instructions and study materials. Not for me, but for yourself.

If I was to analyze your post, it seems you began reading Galatians, got into first chapters, tried to do the summary that is in the beginning of your post and then you gave up and reused some prepared theological materials that just had slightly more verses from Galatians than your other materials.

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I wasn’t expecting you to like my summary, thats okay. Galatians is a big chapter. It was good timing since it is what we are studying in my group bible study.. Thanks for inviting me and take care

Leaf473 said:

I think I'd put it this way:
We don't have to be concerned about performing the physical actions required by the law of Moses. Physical actions like circumcision or refraining from physical activity on the Sabbath.

Click to expand...

It doesn't say the Law of Moses in Galatians.
Tell me is it the faith of Christ that Galatians 2:20 is talking about or faith in? And if we put on Christ as 3:27 says, what does that mean?
And how does that relate to Galatians 6:14-18 where it says a Christian should glory in the cross and that they should be crucified unto the world. In so much that we are new creature walking in Christ Jesus.

Leaf473 said:

From the end of Galatians,
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers and sisters. Amen.

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Is that the same as saying the gift of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit?

myst33 said:

This is not what I asked for and what everybody else understood well, except of you.

I cannot imagine that somebody asks you on the street "what is the letter to Galatians about" and you tell something like this.

Please, for your own sake, simply take your time, it takes half an hour at most, read the letter from the beginning to end like it was meant to be read and make your own summary of what it says, without your church instructions and study materials. Not for me, but for yourself.

If I was to analyze your post, it seems you began reading Galatians, got into first chapters, tried to do the summary that is in the beginning of your post and then you gave up and reused some prepared theological materials that just had slightly more verses from Galatians than your other materials.

Click to expand...

Why not just answer the points of the post. There should be a rule here against this. The above response is nothing more than a distracting or misleading piece of information that diverts attention from a relevant or important question or truth or point that is being made. In other words a red herring.

SabbathBlessings said:

@myst33

In Christ through faith

• Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
• There is no more Jew or Gentile, just One God and one people, sanctified by the Truth of His Word.
• Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
• We must live as Christ lived as He is our example to follow

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Hi Sabbath blessings, in respect to Galatians 2:20 is there a difference between faith in Christ and the faith of Christ?

myst33 said:

Gentiles had to be circumcised and proselytize to be under the law given on Mt Sinai.

So I do not think that the logic "who is not led by the Spirit is under the law" applies. Even more, considering what Paul says in Romans:

"All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law." R 2:12

--- therefore, when Gentiles sin, they do not become being under the law; they simply perish apart from the law

Click to expand...

And yet the doers of the law shall be justified. The gentiles showing the work of the law in their hearts. The invisible things of God from the creation of the world having been made known, Therein the just shall live by. Faith in this. The working of God in and through our hearts. (Romans 2:13-15; 1:17-20) But we are in Galatians not Romans. That is a whole different context and letter. Let's stick with Galatians please, if we get through it then maybe Romans.

You spoke of context before let's stick with that shall we. It applies because he is talking to gentiles in this discourse. Starting in verse 12. In connection to that he says that we can't do the things that we would because the Spirit is contrary to the flesh and passionate against it's desires. In conclusion to this connection with the Spirit that we have it says that we are not under the Law If we are led by it. THERE IS a condition placed there. IF you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law. So if you are not led by the Spirit then you are committing said acts and are under the law. But if you are led by the Spirit the law is not needed because we are not breaking it because of it's fruits through Christ. Wherein there is no law against. (Gal 5:23)

Gal 5:12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you.
Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Gal 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

myst33 said:

I would rather ask why should Gentiles be concerned about the Mosaic Law in the first place? I think thats one of the Paul's arguments. It was just given to fill the time between Abraham and the Promise, to prepare Israel for the coming of the Son. Gentiles had to undergo special procedures to join this Mosaic Covenant (circumcision and proselytizing).

What I think Paul means is that it makes no sense for Gentiles to try to enter that old order of things (through circumcision) that was just temporary and would put them under another slavery (after they were freed from false gods).

Paul argues - the gifts of the Holy Spirit have been given to you without the Law, so why do you, foolish Galatians, want to finish with flesh, now?

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Oh, definitely

I'd just add that there is wisdom in the law, and many good principles can be seen in it.

An example that comes to mind is the instruction about men not wearing women's clothes and vice versa. No need to get into disputes about whether pants are men's clothes or not. No need to follow the letter of that instruction, or any from the law of Moses. But the general idea of a difference between men's clothing styles and women's is good.