Col 2:16 is about not judging others

faroukfarouk

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He didn't rise on the Sabbath.
"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept." (1 Corinthians 15.20) :)
Hebrews 7.12 says the law was changed. Hebrews 7.19 says what we now have is better than the law.
 
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Joelthe vicious

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He didn't rise on the Sabbath.
Says the lady.
But said God, Exodus 31:17 "The LORD on the Seventh Day rested and was revived" 'naphash' from 'nephesh', "soul"x428, "life"x119, "breath" Genesis 1:20,30.
Romans 14:9 "Christ both died, and rose and revived that He might be Lord both of the dead (OT Adam Ex31:17b,14) and / as of the living (OT and NT Israel Ex31:16)."

'anadzaoh' Luke 15:24,32 Revelation 20:5 'ana' "again" 'dzaoh' "to live". "He (God) that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap (harvest in the resurrection) Life everlasting." Galatians 6:8.

Christ "rose and revived" = the LORD "rested and was revived"
When a=b and b=c, a=c. Therefore "rose" = "revived".
Therefore: "God on the Seventh Day rested" = the Lord Jesus on the Seventh Day "rose and revived".

And who can ignore the context of Romans 14:9 that man may "regard the day unto the Lord" or "not regard the day unto the Lord", but "the Lord of the Sabbath" -- "Day OF THE LORD", "Christ, both died, and rose and revived, that He might be Lord" -- might be: "Lord of the Sabbath Day!" Be "Lord of the Sabbath Day ... according to the Scriptures the third day" in the Passover of Yahweh SCRIPTURES, when God "the third day" raised Christ from the dead when "ON THE SABBATH there suddenly was a great earthquake and the angel of the Lord from heaven descending with the brightness of his appearance cast the stone from the grave away."
 
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Joelthe vicious

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"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept." (1 Corinthians 15.20) :)
Hebrews 7.12 says the law was changed. Hebrews 7.19 says what we now have is better than the law.
Hallelujah! How fitting therefore your footnote, "O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD."
 
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BABerean2

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Says the lady.
But said God, Exodus 31:17 "The LORD on the Seventh Day rested and was revived" 'naphash' from 'nephesh', "soul"x428, "life"x119, "breath" Genesis 1:20,30.
Romans 14:9 "Christ both died, and rose and revived that He might be Lord both of the dead (OT Adam Ex31:17b,14) and / as of the living (OT and NT Israel Ex31:16)."

'anadzaoh' Luke 15:24,32 Revelation 20:5 'ana' "again" 'dzaoh' "to live". "He (God) that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap (harvest in the resurrection) Life everlasting." Galatians 6:8.

Christ "rose and revived" = the LORD "rested and was revived"
When a=b and b=c, a=c. Therefore "rose" = "revived".
Therefore: "God on the Seventh Day rested" = the Lord Jesus on the Seventh Day "rose and revived".

And who can ignore the context of Romans 14:9 that man may "regard the day unto the Lord" or "not regard the day unto the Lord", but "the Lord of the Sabbath" -- "Day OF THE LORD", "Christ, both died, and rose and revived, that He might be Lord" -- might be: "Lord of the Sabbath Day!" Be "Lord of the Sabbath Day ... according to the Scriptures the third day" in the Passover of Yahweh SCRIPTURES, when God "the third day" raised Christ from the dead when "ON THE SABBATH there suddenly was a great earthquake and the angel of the Lord from heaven descending with the brightness of his appearance cast the stone from the grave away."

Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:


Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.



Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

.


 
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1stcenturylady

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"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept." (1 Corinthians 15.20) :)
.

Exactly, Jesus is the "firstfruits of them that slept." He fulfilled the Feast of Firstfruits.

Leviticus 23:10 “Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘When you enter the land which I am going to give to you and reap its harvest, then you shall bring in the sheaf of the first fruits of your harvest to the priest. 11 He shall wave the sheaf before the Lord for you to be accepted; on the day after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. 12 Now on the day when you wave the sheaf, you shall offer a male lamb one year old without defect for a burnt offering to the Lord. 13 Its grain offering shall then be two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil, an offering by fire to the Lord for a soothing aroma, with its drink offering, a fourth of a hin of wine. 14 Until this same day, until you have brought in the offering of your God, you shall eat neither bread nor roasted grain nor new growth. It is to be a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all your dwelling places.

This is why Christ rose on the first day of the week. He did NOT rise on the Sabbath, the last day of the week.
 
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Joelthe vicious

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Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:


Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.




Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
How many times now have you just pasted like some Picasso the same plaster on paper? But read for yourself the Scriptures? You don't look at critique just blindly repeat. What do you gain? A better day than the Lord's Day Sabbath of his Resurrection? Do you want to swap the no longer engraved on stone Lord's Day Rest Day of the Lord for the First on mortal's catacomb coffin written 'Day of the Lord SUN'? Amazing!
 
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Joelthe vicious

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He fulfilled the Feast of Firstfruits.

Yes. More than that, He fulfilled the specific passover-feast day of the "First SHEAF of firstfruits" of winter's grain harvest on the sixteenth day of the First Month of the solar year which "ye (the people by "observation" / "calculation", not God,) must proclaim according to and in its season", and not according to God's creation which He "in the beginning", "thus concerning the Seventh Day spake / "said" / "called", through Christ the "WORD (that) in the beginning was" and speaking, commanding, working, creating, "made the Sabbath". For the Word is Written: "And God the Seventh Day from all his works, which He had made, RESTED", and which "Rest-of-God", God THEN, "rested" through Christ "by the exceeding greatness of his Power when He raised Christ from the dead" ... OR GOD, NEVER, "RESTED"!

Or how would you say "rested" God other than in having "raised Christ from the dead", "fulfilling", "all the Scriptures concerning the Christ"?
 
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Joelthe vicious

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on the day after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.

Yes, on the passover day after the passover sabbath the passover priest shall wave the first sheaf of the passover. And on which day of the week of God's creation order, would that day, at the first ever passover, have been because it afterwards would not repeat itself on the same day of the week depending on the "observation" / "calculation" of "its SEASON" every year?

Compare for example the first passover and the Fourth Commandment based on Israel's coming up out from their Red Sea grave experience and the LORD commanded on strength of THAT DAY'S redemption having finished bringing Israel out of Egypt and having "planted" their feet on the shores of freedom to "REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY" of their salvation. So on the sixteenth of the First Month that day, the day of First Sheaf had to have been on the Seventh Day of the week the Sabbath or it couldn't have been commanded to be remembered as "the Sabbath the Seventh Day", "God thus concerning spake". Right?

But lo and behold when Israel came up out of the depths of their Jordan grave's passing-through, it was on the tenth day of the First Month for which passing through into freedom in the Promised Land God commanded them to "remember the Sabbath Day". So this time the sixteenth day of the First Month and "day after the sabbath" OF THE PASSOVER" only arrived a week after the day of their passing over!
Therefore "the day after the sabbath" impossible was always the regular Seventh Day Sabbath according to the creation-order, but was the day after the seasonal or annual 'sabbath' of the passover.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Yes. More than that, He fulfilled the specific passover-feast day of the "First SHEAF of firstfruits" of winter's grain harvest on the sixteenth day of the First Month of the solar year which "ye (the people by "observation" / "calculation", not God,) must proclaim according to and in its season", and not according to God's creation which He "in the beginning", "thus concerning the Seventh Day spake / "said" / "called", through Christ the "WORD (that) in the beginning was" and speaking, commanding, working, creating, "made the Sabbath". For the Word is Written: "And God the Seventh Day from all his works, which He had made, RESTED", and which "Rest-of-God", God THEN, "rested" through Christ "by the exceeding greatness of his Power when He raised Christ from the dead" ... OR GOD, NEVER, "RESTED"!

Or how would you say "rested" God other than in having "raised Christ from the dead", "fulfilling", "all the Scriptures concerning the Christ"?

He was raised the day after the Sabbath.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Yes, on the passover day after the passover sabbath the passover priest shall wave the first sheaf of the passover. And on which day of the week of God's creation order, would that day, at the first ever passover, have been because it afterwards would not repeat itself on the same day of the week depending on the "observation" / "calculation" of "its SEASON" every year?

Compare for example the first passover and the Fourth Commandment based on Israel's coming up out from their Red Sea grave experience and the LORD commanded on strength of THAT DAY'S redemption having finished bringing Israel out of Egypt and having "planted" their feet on the shores of freedom to "REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY" of their salvation. So on the sixteenth of the First Month that day, the day of First Sheaf had to have been on the Seventh Day of the week the Sabbath or it couldn't have been commanded to be remembered as "the Sabbath the Seventh Day", "God thus concerning spake". Right?

But lo and behold when Israel came up out of the depths of their Jordan grave's passing-through, it was on the tenth day of the First Month for which passing through into freedom in the Promised Land God commanded them to "remember the Sabbath Day". So this time the sixteenth day of the First Month and "day after the sabbath" OF THE PASSOVER" only arrived a week after the day of their passing over!
Therefore "the day after the sabbath" impossible was always the regular Seventh Day Sabbath according to the creation-order, but was the day after the seasonal or annual 'sabbath' of the passover.

You're wrong. The Feast of Firstfruits is counted as the day after the first Sabbath after Passover, and probably on the seventeenth.
 
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Joelthe vicious

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He was raised the day after the Sabbath.

Again, yes. But after WHICH 'sabbath'? And you refuse to answer with and from the RELEVANT, Scriptures, the PASSOVER Scriptures. Which makes your claim meaningless and therefore worthless.
 
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Joelthe vicious

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You're wrong. The Feast of Firstfruits is counted as the day after the first Sabbath after Passover, and probably on the seventeenth.

First, let us please stick to what is written. There is no 'Feast of Firstfruits'; not 'counted'; not written; nowhere. We are talking about the PASSOVER'S "First SHEAF of firstfruits"-- STILL no ''Feast'! Just: "the _day_ after the sabbath / rest-day...". The "sabbath" or "rest-day" itself, per se WAS, "this that Selfsame-Whole-Day-BONE-DAY on the fifteenth day of the First Month EAT" the passover in Leviticus incidentally in 23:11 and 15; "EAT" it says, making "the fifteenth day of the First Month", the "F-ea(s)t-Day", of, the passover not the week!

How then obtained the fifteenth day of the First Month ALSO the connotation of "rest-" or "sabbath-day"?
From the work of the priest on the fifteenth day of the First Month, and NOT FROM THE FOURTH COMMANDMENT which yet was not even given!
The work of the priest on the fifteenth day had to do with the first sheaf of the winter harvest which had to be "cut" and "gathered / bound" into a "sheaf" and be "lifted up" and "brought to the priest" "on the fourteenth day" that "ye shall REMOVE ALL LEAVEN" of life, and "KILL the passover" on.

Then, verse 11A, Leviticus 23, read, "6the fifteenth is Feast ... 11A ...to prostrate the sheaf the priest, for the sheaf to be accepted on your behalf and put in store for you", so that the sheaf "on the fifteenth day of the First Month", as it were "in the belly of the earth (fish)", "eaten" and "swallowed", "rested", "this that Selfsame-Whole-Day-BONE-DAY the fifteenth day of the First Month for you solemnly to observe", "great day of sabbath" of PASSOVER and "Feast-Day" of the passover.
 
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Joelthe vicious

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Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

The BOLD belongs to the BABerean, not to Luke. The COMMA belongs to the BABerean, not to Luke. Therefore the command or VERB, 'keep the law', belongs to the BABerean, not to Luke. Therefore the impression that the apostles gave no commandment to the Church to keep the law, is misleading and untrue, because, the passage means what it states and states what it means, that the apostles gave no commandment saying, "Ye must be circumcised and keep the law".
The apostles did not give any commandments; least that converts must be circumcised. But you play with words and craft to create the impression the apostles commanded the Church not to keep Sabbath or even believe it. The Christian Faith is no computer game.
 
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BABerean2

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The BOLD belongs to the BABerean, not to Luke. The COMMA belongs to the BABerean, not to Luke. Therefore the command or VERB, 'keep the law', belongs to the BABerean, not to Luke. Therefore the impression that the apostles gave no commandment to the Church to keep the law, is misleading and untrue, because, the passage means what it states and states what it means, that the apostles gave no commandment saying, "Ye must be circumcised and keep the law".
The apostles did not give any commandments; least that converts must be circumcised. But you play with words and craft to create the impression the apostles commanded the Church not to keep Sabbath or even believe it. The Christian Faith is no computer game.


Acts 15:24


(Geneva) Forasmuch as we haue heard, that certaine which went out from vs, haue troubled you with wordes, and cumbred your mindes, saying, Ye must be circumcised and keepe the Lawe: to whom we gaue no such commaundement,


(LITV-TSP) Since we heard that some of us having gone out have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, Be circumcised and keep the Law, to whom we gave no command;

(KJV) Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:


(KJV+) Forasmuch asG1894 we have heard,G191 thatG3754 certainG5100 which went outG1831 fromG1537 usG2257 have troubledG5015 youG5209 with words,G3056 subvertingG384 yourG5216 souls,G5590 saying,G3004 Ye must be circumcised,G4059 andG2532 keepG5083 theG3588 law:G3551 to whomG3739 we gave no such commandment:G1291 G3756

(NKJV) Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law"—to whom we gave no such commandment—

(YLT) seeing we have heard that certain having gone forth from us did trouble you with words, subverting your souls, saying to be circumcised and to keep the law, to whom we did give no charge,

.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Again, yes. But after WHICH 'sabbath'? And you refuse to answer with and from the RELEVANT, Scriptures, the PASSOVER Scriptures. Which makes your claim meaningless and therefore worthless.

Not the Feast of Unleavened Bread. That was a High Sabbath. He rose after the weekly Sabbath, according to scripture and which is what I've been saying.
 
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Joelthe vicious

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Not the Feast of Unleavened Bread. That was a High Sabbath. He rose after the weekly Sabbath, according to scripture and which is what I've been saying.

You must have read my reply.

Now 'the Feast of Unleavened Bread. That was a High Sabbath' you say. Dead right!
It was called --WRITTEN IN LAW-- in the OT, "Feast"-- 'Feast' of ULB. Correct.
It is called --in Jesus' Last Passover-- in the NT, "That Day great ('High') day of sabbath" of Jesus' Last Passover of Yahweh Suffering of

1) Dying the death of death "on the first first day ye shall KILL the Passover ... on the fourteenth day of the First Month"; and

2) "on the first day seven days ULB ye shall EAT (swallow BURY) ... and burn with fire (return to earth BURY) that which remained"-- the body of Jesus : "Feast day is the fifteenth day of the First Month", "rest-day-sabbath" OF THE FIRST SHEAF --Jesus, "PROSTRATED IN STORE" in his grave on "That Day the Preparation"; and

3) "on the day AFTER the rest-day" of Jesus' body in the grave, "on the sixteenth day of the First Month (God) cleansed the Sanctuary" and He "RESTED HIM UP AGAIN HIS NAME, THE MOST HOLY PLACE!"

The exodus passover happened fifty days BEFORE GOD SPOKE BY THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST on the mountain and fifty three - 53 days BEFORE He gave Moses the Law! How can the word 'sabbath' of the first sheaf institutionalised, have referred to the Sabbath of the LORD 53 days before it was given through the Law?! It was not the Sabbath of the Fourth Commandment the Seventh Day of the week.
 
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Joelthe vicious

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Acts 15:24


(Geneva) Forasmuch as we haue heard, that certaine which went out from vs, haue troubled you with wordes, and cumbred your mindes, saying, Ye must be circumcised and keepe the Lawe: to whom we gaue no such commaundement,


(LITV-TSP) Since we heard that some of us having gone out have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, Be circumcised and keep the Law, to whom we gave no command;

(KJV) Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:


(KJV+) Forasmuch asG1894 we have heard,G191 thatG3754 certainG5100 which went outG1831 fromG1537 usG2257 have troubledG5015 youG5209 with words,G3056 subvertingG384 yourG5216 souls,G5590 saying,G3004 Ye must be circumcised,G4059 andG2532 keepG5083 theG3588 law:G3551 to whomG3739 we gave no such commandment:G1291 G3756

(NKJV) Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law"—to whom we gave no such commandment—

(YLT) seeing we have heard that certain having gone forth from us did trouble you with words, subverting your souls, saying to be circumcised and to keep the law, to whom we did give no charge,

TR: 24Ἐπειδὴ ἠκούσαμεν ὅτι τινὲς ἐξ ἡμῶν ἐξελθόντες ἐτάραξαν ὑμᾶς λόγοις ἀνασκευάζοντες τὰς ψυχὰς ὑμῶν λέγοντες περιτέμνεσθαι καὶ τηρεῖν τον νόμον, οἷς οὐ διεστειλάμεθα

NA: 24Ἐπειδὴ ἠκούσαμεν ὅτι τινὲς ἐξ ἡμῶν ἐτάραξαν ὑμᾶς λόγοις ἀνασκευάζοντες τὰς ψυχὰς ὑμῶν, οἷς οὐ διεστειλάμεθα,

omits λέγοντες περιτέμνεσθαι καὶ τηρεῖν τον νόμον,

However,
Note it is not the apostles, but the trouble stirrers, τινὲς ἐξ ἡμῶν ἐτάραξαν ὑμᾶς, "some of us" who "trouble you with words", insisting, 'commanding',
saying [λέγοντες] (to you)
to be circumcised [περιτέμνεσθαι Present Infinitive Passive]
and to keep [καὶ τηρεῖν Present Infinitive Active]
the law [τον νόμον]
"to be circumcised and to keep the law" is one and the same in meaning Predicative clause; not two.

Again, So you are siding with the trouble makers.
 
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BobRyan

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At the risk of bringing the thread back on topic...

=======================
As for Col 2 -- condemning the traditions and doctrines of man - and upholding the Word of God --

Col 2 is opposed to making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command.

But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflatedwithout cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.


Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)

Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)
 
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BABerean2

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Again, So you are siding with the trouble makers.

I wonder if Paul was siding with the trouble makers when he compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage" in Galatians 4:24-31 ?

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