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COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, Aug 10, 2017.

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  1. Doveaman

    Doveaman Re-Created, Not Evolved.

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    This is why it is confusing.

    You say the "holyday" is a reference to special annual Jewish Festivals holy days, and then you say the "sabbath days" is referring to the annual Sabbaths and anything connected with the annual feast days. :confused:

    You are in effect saying that the "holyday" and the "sabbath days" are the same annual Jewish Festivals or feast days, which is not the case.

    You are trying to make a distinction between the two without actually making a distinction between the two.

    And that's what makes it so confusing. :(
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
  2. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    I see where you are confused. You are confused with this statement

    "The Holy days you referenced from Col 2 is talking about the same context and reference to special annual Jewish Festivals holy days"

    The "context" is the Jewish annual festivals I am really not sure why you are confused about that? I am not saying in that statement that the Holy days and the annual Sabbath(s) are the same thing. Only that the "context" of Col 2 is referring to the Jewish Festivals and the ceremonial laws of Moses in Lev 23.

    Hope that helps your confusion

    In Christ Always!
     
  3. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    You have to remember something:

    Thou shalt not admit to error

    Is the first and most important commandment for many on these websites.
    So no matter how clearly you have made your point( and you have), it must be opposed by any means, even if the opposition to it lacks credibility.

    IE

    I was told rom 14:5 refers to feast days, though feast days are not mentioned in any of the surrounding verses!!
     
  4. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    A good example of the greatest commandment for many is.
    If you chat to SDA and quote Paul:

    As one who is in the Lord Jesus I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean then for him it is unclean
    Rom14:14

    ALL food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble
    Verse20

    SDA often tell you the above only refers to vegetables:)

    So verse 14 should read:
    As one who is in the Lord Jesus I am fully convinced that all vegetables are clean.

    Well any Jew outside of the Lord Jesus would be fully convinced of that!!!!

    And verse 20 should be read as:
    All vegetables are clean. But it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes another to stumble.

    How can eating vegetables cause someone else to stumble??

    Have fun debating these things, but always bear in mind, any response will be given, however far-fetched it is, rather than an admittance of error. And this from people who say:
    The only thing that matters is Gods word( when that word suits them)
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
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  5. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    Some say they don't believe you are justified by obeying the law.
    But if you love Jesus you will obey the TC. So if you don't obey them you can't be saved, for you prove you don't love Jesus.
    And they reason( somehow) that in the real world that is not justification of observing the law. Thankfully the majority of SDA just plainly admit justification for heaven is obeying the TC in their view, rather than try and go all round the houses to deflect from that.

    The TC are an inflexible law. There is no pass mark of obedience to them that can entitle you to enter heaven. Perfectly obey them or stand guilty before them. There is nothing of mercy and forgiveness written in those commands.
    The bible terms the TC the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation. So when people tell you:
    You must obey the TC

    they are preaching what they do not practice.
    Even to stress: you must obey the TC is to fail to understand the NC. The law is within you, it is not an external law written on tablets of stone, but an internal law written on tablets of human hearts. It is part of a believers DNA, in their heart and mind.
    So I'm afraid to continually repeat:
    You must obey the TC
    shows a christianity that is nowhere near where it should be, to put it mildly. It is like a light bulb only dimly lighting a room, it is not fully turned on to bring forth true light
     
  6. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hello Stuart,

    How are you today my friend? What error has been made? Please by all means prove with scripture that Romans 14 is talking about God's 7th Day Sabbath. The only references to food, fasting and Holy days given in God's Word is in reference to the Jewish annual feast days. We no longer need to keep them now because they all pointed to Jesus and were part of the laws of Moses in the Old Covenant.

    If you believe that this is referring to God's 7th Day Sabbath commandment then prove it with scripture and make your case. Read the OP of the thread you will see what I am talking about is correct. If you have anything to talk about on the OP I am happy to talk with you further. If not then go make another topic somewhere. You haven't made a case for anything that you have said here in this thread. No one is telling you that you must keep the God's Law to be saved. Only you are saying this to make an argument that is not there. Wish you well :D

    In Christ Always
     
  7. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    I see you have not been able to supply even one verse of scripture from the entire new testament/ covenant that states gentile converts are required to observe a specific Saturday sabbath. So from the NC p oint of view, you have no scripture at all do you.
    As rom ch14 does not mention feast days, and other places do, it is obvious feast days are not being referred to.
    As feast days are not mentioned in rom ch14 there is nothing to prove, it is already very plain.
    As for you obeying Gods laws to be justified/ righteous, that is already shown to be true

    But you carry-on without scriptural support. I will stick with the Bible where the NC is concerned
     
  8. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    But now, by dying to what once bound us we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not the old way of the written code
    Rom7:6

    Now how is the above compatible with relentlessly stating:
    You must obey the TC.
    It isn't is it.

    Let's look at the ops belief a bit more closely.
    If you love God you will obey the TC. If you don't obey them it proves you don't love God and are unsaved.
    Well he is really saying, in order to prove you love God you must obey the letter that the Bible says kills.
    So does the op, and SDA members ever have any Impure thoughts? If they do they are not obeying the TC, therefore they must be unsaved in their view for it shows they don't love God. And I know many SDA members who have plenty of impure thoughts!
    The second greatest commandment supercedes nine of the TC. And according to that commandment you must love your neighbour as yourself. And Jesus told us what loving others entails. Love your enemies. Therefore you must love those who malign, persecute or mistreat you.
    Do the op and SDA. Members faultlessly love people who treat them as described? If they don't, according to their doctrine it proves they don't love God and cannot therefore be saved.

    Jesus said:

    The measure you use to judge others will be used to judge you
    Matt7:2

    People who glibly QUOTE partial scripture without taking into account the full demands of what they quote should be very careful indeed
     
  9. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    I have seen many people, who attend church on Saturday or Sunday state:
    You must obey the TC

    And the result is always the same.
    Among SDA members that I have known, this means, as long as they attend church on a Saturday, don't steal, murder, or commit the physical act of adultery, alongside tithing their money, avoiding the Levitical unclean foods, using foul language or smoking, or drinking they have done enough to be justified for heaven, or to prove their love for God in order to attain to heaven.
    Amongst Sunday parishioners it is mostly the same, apart from avoiding the Levitical unclean foods and which day they attend church.
    It amazes me, the Pharisees of Jesus day could have passed all those tests with flying colours.
    And I have noticed, the more in earnest people are that you must obey the TC in order to attain heaven/ prove you love Jesus so you may attain heaven, the less the higher points of the law according to Christ are reflected in their lives.
    Basically, the law of God gets dumbed down from the pristine level it is set at, to a place people believe they can obey it to be justified before God, either directly, or through proving their love for God so they may be saved
     
  10. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hi Friend,

    Some friendly comments for you below all from God's Word
    Stuart you do know you are just making an argument that defeats your own argument right? You say because the word "feast" is not used in Rom 14 therefore it cannot be referring to feast day. Now using your same logic I can say to you where does it say in Rom 14 that the day is referring to God's 7th Day Sabbath? There is no mention of it so you have defeated your own argument. o_O

    Now if you look at all the scripture in the Old and New Testament nearly every scripture that is referring to food, drink and holy days is in reference to Lev 23 which is talking about the annual Jewish festivals. If you read the OP in this thread you will learn something. I am only sharing nothing but scripture with you. You on the other hand only share your opinion. We must believe God's Word over the opinion of man (Acts 5:29)
    Stuart, did you know that all the New Testament come from the Old Testament? Now if the New Testament comes from the Old Testament then how can you say that the Old Testament does not apply to the New? You contradict the teachings of scripture. Man does not live by bread alone but by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matt 4:4) All scripture is given by inspiration of God is is profitable for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (2Ti 3:16). Why would God need to give His Law again in the New Testament when He already gave it in the Old Testament to His people?

    Since you are restricting my answer to only the New Testament (which is not biblical as shown above, but I will indulge you) your question should rather be; What does the New Testament say about God's Law (10 commandments) and the 7th Day Sabbath? Is God's Law (10 commandments) spoken about in the New Testament? If it is then it includes the 7th Day Sabbath as this is one of the 10 commandments spoken by God himself as a memorial of creation (Ex 20:8-11)

    Jesus is our example (John 2:6; Matt 16:24; 1 Cor 11:1; Eph 5:1-21; Pet 2:20-22 )

    Did Jesus and the Apostles keep the Sabbath?

    (1) Jesus taught us that the Sabbath was made for mankind (Mark 2:27).
    (2) Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath and that this is the Lord's Day (Mark 2:28).
    (3) Jesus taught us that it is ok to enjoy the Sabbath and to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56).
    (4) The apostles kept the 7th Day Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

    What does the New Testament say about God's Law (10 commandments)?

    * God's commandments are Holy, Just and Good (Rom 7:12)
    * If we break one of God's 10 commandments we are guilty of sin (James 2:8-12)
    * God's 10 commandments give a knowledge of what sin is (Rom 3:20)
    * Sin is breaking any of God's 10 commandments (1 John 3:4)
    * The penalty of known and willful sin is death (Rom 6:23)
    * Those that know God keep his commandments (1 John 2:3)
    * If you say you know God and do not keep His commandments you are a liar (1 John 2:4)
    * God's true followers keep them (1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 5:2-3; Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14)
    * If we love Jesus we will keep them (John 14:15)
    * If we keep them we will abide in God's Love (John 15:10)
    * We can break God's commandments by keeping man made traditions we are not following God (Mark 7:3-13; Matt 15:3-9)

    Sunday Worship is a teaching and tradition of man over the Word of God that has no basis in God's Word
    If you knowingly and willfully break God's Law you commit sin because sin is the transgression of God's Law. If we break one commandment we stand before God as guilty of breaking all. If we do not seek God in repentance we are in danger of the Judgment (Heb 10:26-27). Who do we believe and follow God or man? I love Jesus so I choose to follow God's Word. Do you love Jesus Stuart? One of the many questions I ask you that you never answer.

    Ok Good night my time friend, If you want to chat further lets discuss the OP? So far you seem to be very side tracked with some agenda that I do not understand. What is clear to me however is that you do not know God's Word otherwise you would share it.

    In Christ Always!
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
  11. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    I'm afraid, as you have no scripture from the new testament/ covenant to support your view that gentile converts must observe a specific Saturday sabbath there isn't really anything to discuss is there.
    I gave you scripture, as requested from the NC, you have supplied none.
    Of course you had to try and insert what was not written into the verse to try and support your errant demands, that is understandable I guess.
    If you find, even one verse from the new testament to support your position, I would of course then debate this subject further with you.
    God bless
     
  12. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    One man considers one day more sacred/ holy than another. Another man considers everyday alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind
    Rom14:5

    Nothing mentioned about feast days!
     
  13. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Nothing mentioned of the 7th Day Sabbath too :D I Have provided you with plenty of Scripture above but you close your eyes to it because you want to follow your traditions. Good night my friend.
     
  14. listed

    listed are you?

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    How is my post off topic? Is it because I posted something you don't want to hear. I read your OP. Commented on your opening Scripture quote.

    Evidently you claim the sabbath isn't a holy day. You talk about festival(s). A festival is defined as: a day or period of celebration, typically a religious commemoration. That doesn't fit the sabbath? really?

    You're not the slightest bit interested in talking about the Scripture. You're here promoting the false doctrines of a church.

    You seem to think I've not read the OP because
    1. I only commented on the opening verse.
    2. I didn't mention anything else in your OP.
    3. I didn't provide the response you wanted.
    I don't do long post often. Very few will read them. I gather from your OP you're promoting the sabbath as a requirement for Christians. There's no such obligation mentioned in the complete Scripture. You intend others to throw out the rules of English. The word "you" is always qualified and specific. In the case of the 7th day sabbath this limits the sabbath requirement to Israel. Exodus 19 & 20; 31; Deuteronomy 5.

    Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


    And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

    All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
    Jesus
     
  15. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    Goodnight, sleep well.
    An understandable response from you sadly. Of course, if you had any scripture yourself from the NC, you wouldn't have to reason so desperately would you
     
  16. listed

    listed are you?

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    LGW are you going to answer this question? Its very on topic.
     
  17. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    In the Chur h I went to where they worshipped on Saturdays. One woman, who had multiple affairs, called out enthusiastically AMEN during the sermon if the minister said something she heartily approved of. One of the women who often took the service before the minister spoke slept with her boyfriend. Many took the Lord's name in vain, apparently oblivious to the fact they were doing so. And yet they were adamant. You must obey the TC to attain to heaven.
    It was an eye opener.
    Of course, if one understands Pauls core message one is not surprised.
    Live under the law and sin shall be your master, for:

    The power of sin is the law 1cor15:56
     
  18. listed

    listed are you?

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    When it comes to judgment the christian has already passed it. Jesus said: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
     
  19. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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  20. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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