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Coccyx - tale of a creationist disinformation post

sfs

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Junk DNA is a sort of inaccurate name for non coding DNA . We USED to think that it has no use but we’ve corrected that so long ago that your point in even bringing it up is silly.
That's incorrect. Junk DNA means DNA that has no effect on the organism health or reproductive success; more precisely, DNA for which the specific sequence doesn't matter. Current estimates are that between 89% and 92% of the human genome consists of junk DNA; the former estimate comes from the ENCODE project and the latter is a more recent estimate. No one has ever published any evidence that most of the genome is anything but junk DNA -- certainly not the ENCODE project.
 
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Brightmoon

Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.
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Pierolapithecus is so close to the split between the other apes and humans that scientists THINK that it is THE ancestor genus . Scientists think unlike some other group of people who believe in ignorant superstitious stories with no basis in facts. St Augustine was right. if reality trumps your dogmas, go with reality
 
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sfs

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Since you provide no references, are you referring to this from 2012?

Human chimp dna similarity re-evaluated - creation.com
Well, that's certainly a good example of how poor Tomkins's work is. It thoroughly mis-states the fraction of the chimpanzee genome that could have been aligned to the human genome (whether through incompetence or in an attempt to deceive I couldn't say), and is completely misleading on the comparison of human, chimpanzee and gorilla DNA. This is isn't science: it's someone abusing science to fool people who aren't experts in the field.
 
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Brightmoon

Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.
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That's incorrect. Junk DNA means DNA that has no effect on the organism health or reproductive success; more precisely, DNA for which the specific sequence doesn't matter. Current estimates are that between 89% and 92% of the human genome consists of junk DNA; the former estimate comes from the ENCODE project and the latter is a more recent estimate. No one has ever published any evidence that most of the genome is anything but junk DNA -- certainly not the ENCODE project.

Ok I was mistaken , oops ! You see I’m not a creationist and my ego isnt tied up with believing nonsense
 
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Jimmy D

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Yes:
  • Donald Prothero, Bringing Fossils to Life: An Introduction to Paleobiology (Columbia University Press, 2013).
  • Sylvia S. Mader, Jeffrey A. Isaacson, Kimberly G. Lyle-Ippolito, Andrew T. Storfer, Inquiry Into Life (13th ed., McGraw Hill, 2011).
  • Peter H. Raven, George B. Johnson, Kenneth A. Mason, Jonathan B. Losos, and Susan R. Singer, Biology (9th ed., McGraw Hill, 2011).
  • Adaptive Curriculum online curriculum submitted to Texas State Board of Education for adoption in 2011.
  • Rice University online curriculum submitted to Texas State Board of Education for adoption in 2011.
  • Sylvia S. Mader, Biology (McGraw Hill, 10th ed., 2010).
  • Sylvia S. Mader, Biology (McGraw Hill 2007).
  • BSCS Biology: A Human Approach (Kendall Hunt Publishing Company, 2006).
  • National Geographic, Alton Biggs, Lucy Daniel, Edward Ortleb, Peter Rillero, Dinah Zike, Life Science (McGraw Hill, Glencoe, 2005).

Not that most were published in this decade.

Dan


I was only able to find the embryo pictures in Sylvia Mader's book and they don't use Haeckael's drawings. His grid pattern is used but the modern drawings are anatomically correct.

haeckelmader2.jpg


It's not as if they are promoting Haeckel's recapitulation theory is it?

I was under the impression Haeckel was criticized for exaggerating certain anatomical features to emphasize his ideas? What's the problem with similar - but anatomically correct - drawings?
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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Very well. Explain macroevolution of a chimp to a human, or vice versa, based on the DNA content/sequences.

Dan
Are we to take from your request that you know enough about genetics to understand any details given?
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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Hackel's drawings lingered in textbooks as late as 2015; and many evolutionists still refuse to let go. That is hardly an honest mistake. Evolutionism Icons DIE HARD!

Poppycock!
 
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Brightmoon

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Haeckel’s drawing weren’t used after they were discovered to be inaccurate. They were redrawn or modern (since the 70s) textbooks used photos . I have no idea why creationists keep bringing this up as it’s been a non issue for at least half a century
 
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pitabread

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Haeckel’s drawing weren’t used after they were discovered to be inaccurate. They were redrawn or modern (since the 70s) textbooks used photos . I have no idea why creationists keep bringing this up as it’s been a non issue for at least half a century

I've noticed a lot of things creationists bring up aren't relevant anymore. In fact I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone mention Piltdown Man recently.
 
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Brightmoon

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The oddest thing is that neither Haeckel’s drawings or piltdown man has anything do with accurate science facts . Both were silly mistakes and Haeckel’s could also be an artistic license issue.
 
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tas8831

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What is wrong with that? I think it is perfectly logic and scientific. Blame the definition, not the one who criticize it.

Based on that, you can delete the rest of part I, and the part II or III is no longer needed.
So you've got nothing, as usual. Understood.
 
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tas8831

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Sure, if it's only ToE. Where ToE has problems is with origins. ToE argumentators usually avoid it, but they can't avoid chemical evolution. This is where the creationist, such as myself, brings in origins.

However, yesterday I heard a simpler argument. Who better to argue against ToE than an evolutionist.

Evolutionary scientist admits theory’s major flaws
EVOLUTION | Gerd Müller notes evolution doesn’t adequately explain life’s origins or complexity
by Julie Borg
Posted 9/07/17, 12:33 pm

Gerd Müller, a highly regarded Austrian evolutionary theorist, recently gave a presentation, published in Interface Focus, in which he admitted Charlies Darwin’s theory largely avoids explaining how life originated and how complexity developed.

Müller did not espouse any creationist or design beliefs, but his presentation demonstrated that even the most staunch advocates of evolution are forced to admit the theory has many holes. The presentation was devastating “for anyone who wants to think that, on the great questions of biological origins, orthodox evolutionary theory has got it all figured out,” Discovery Institute experts wrote on their organization’s blog.

Müller’s admission offers a particularly damning critique since answers to questions about how things originated and how complexity developed form the basis for all origin theories. He also referred to the concept of macroevolution, the idea that one species can evolve into a totally different species, as “vague” and advised proponents of an expanded framework of evolution to avoid the term altogether.

Many Christians reject the theory of macroevolution because the Bible teaches that God created everything according to its kind. Somewhat less controversial is the theory of microevolution, which refers to changes or adaptations within a species. For example, dog breeders can breed a dog that sheds less, but it’s still a dog. But they can’t breed a dog that can fly. Many evolutionists believe microevolutionary changes lead to macroevolution, but Müller admitted even evolutionary experts argue among themselves about whether microevolutionary adaptations actually produce macroevolution.

Even within evolutionary circles, Müller noted, a large number of scientists recognize that the standard theory of evolution needs to be revised or replaced altogether: “A rising number of publications argue for a major revision or even a replacement of the standard theory of evolution, indicating that this cannot be dismissed as a minority view but rather is a widespread feeling among scientists and philosophers alike.”

Canadian musician Leonard Cohen once said, “There is a crack in everything, that’s how the light gets in.” Perhaps the ever-widening cracks in the theory of evolution will let some of the light of God’s truth shine into the scientific world.
Amazingly, the ToE is NOT ABOUT the ORIGIN OF LIFE.
 
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tas8831

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Abiogenesis evolved from chemical evolution. Chemical evolution evolved from spontaneous generation.

Chemical evolution also evolved into mutation. The latter is part of ToE.

Two pathways
1. Spontaneous generation ==> Chemical evolution ==> Abiogenesis
2. Spontaneous generation ==> Chemical evolution ==> Mutation ==> ToE

1.
spontaneous generation | Examples & Experiments ==>

What is Chemical Evolution? ==>

From soup to cells — the origin of life

2.
Same as 1, but includes
Mutation theory | biology

and Mutationism or ToE
Mutationism - Wikipedia
Gibberish.
 
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tas8831

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Just so there is no misunderstanding by new-arrivals, humans and chimps are only about 70% similar. There are many millions of differences, as Dr. Jeffrey Tomkins, (PhD Genetics, Clemson U.)
Can YOU explain what Tomkins means, and vouch for the veracity of his claims?

Or do you just accept them because he says what you want to hear and is an 'authority'?


Use the search function on this forum and search for Tomkins - you will see that his claims have been thoroughly debunked.
 
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Bible Research Tools

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Nope that information has already been confirmed. The ball is in your court. You come up with verifiable evidence that creationist pseudoscience is accurate. If creationist blather turns out( very very very very very rarely) to be accurate then mainstream scientists might grumble but they won’t ignore it. Creationists routinely ignore any information that disproves their allegations. Tomkins screwed up and you blithely ignored it. Macroevolution is speciation, which you should have learned in middle school. But you ignored that in favor of pseudoscience religious beliefs that scientists rejected as factual over a century ago.

Brightmoon, are you talking to anyone in particular, or to yourself?

Dan
 
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Bible Research Tools

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No, they've repeatedly lied, made elementary mistakes and obfuscated as much as possible.

This is from someone in league with those who lied about the Piltdown Man, Haeckel's Embryos, Peppered Moths, and Whale "evolutionism", to name a few, not to mention the geological silliness of Uniformitarianism.

If you have specific disagreements with Tomkins and Jeanson, let us hear them.

Yup, Venema did indeed overestimate the time period during which we can rule out a unique starting couple for the human race. Turns out we can only rule it out for the last 700,000 years, not 7 million years.

How about the last 6,500-7,000 years? Can you honestly rule that out?

That's still long before the appearance of anatomically modern humans, and far longer than anything someone like Tomkins is talking about. And of course genetics provides no reason at all to think there was a first couple So why are you viewing this as support for creationism, or in any way undermining of evolution. (Note, by the way, that I'm one of the geneticists mentioned in this article.)

The first humans were created about 6,000 to 7,500 years ago, according to the Word of God: that is, unless you twist his words to make them fit your presuppositions.

If you have anything to prove your pretensions, let us hear them. But please do not try to baffle everyone with massive data and computer modeling. Rather, simply everything so even a child can understand and believe it. After all, only a fool would stray beyond the simplicity that is in Christ, and Christians are not fools:

"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ." -- 2Cor 11:3 KJV

Dan
 
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pitabread

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This is from someone in league with those who lied about the Piltdown Man,

Heh, I just made a comment about how we hadn't had a creationist bring up Piltdown Man lately and there it is. What fortuitous timing. ^_^

(And for what it's worth Piltdown Man was a fraud perpetuated by only one or two individuals. It was not representative of a giant conspiracy. And none of the other things you listed were examples of fraud.)
 
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