Coccyx - tale of a creationist disinformation post

[Bible Research Tools]

Oh I will call you a liar on it. Since it is clearly written in the First Amendment of the US Constitution; "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

Are you really that thick-skulled? The Congress is NOT the states, nor the people. THE FIRST AMENDMENT RESTRICTS ONLY THE FEDERAL CONGRESS. IT DOES NOT RESTRICT THE STATES! IT WAS INTENDED TO PROTECT THE STATES FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

God help our children learn how to read.

Real mature response. Hitler wasn't a 'Darwinist'. He only is in your own petty imagination.

Incredible . . .

Who are you, who does not know your own history?

Most people do not know history, and are therefore easily fooled, like you.

Dan

 

[Bible Research Tools]

Perhaps you should stop being so patronisingly arrogant.

I thought you were being a nasty when you wrote:

"One of the most damaging impacts on Western culture has been the arrogant, self-centred belief of a proportion of Americans that their nation is Western Culture."​

1. I was not a product of the post 1960s Public School system.
2. I was not a product of the American school system.
3. I have made a passingly sound autodidact study of Western Civilisation.
4. My central point is that you conflate Western civilisation with US civilisation. While the two are clearly related there are deep and profound differences. Moreover you appear to be ignorant of the fact that you are doing this.​

The United States is a part of western civilization; and Darwinism has done substantial, perhaps fatal harm to western civilization.

Nice switch, we were talking about children not their parents, but such manipulation won't work here. Address my point directly. Are you still claiming that atheist/agnostic children don't care about other children, or do you concede that you were mistaken in that claim?

I will make my original statement again:

Do you really believe that children who have been brainwashed into believing they are cousins of chimpanzees give a darn about the lives of other children?​

That is a general statement. Please refrain from trying to make everything about you.

You are doing it again. We were talking about Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao, etc. I challenged you on your claim and instead of addressing it, you move the goalposts. That is intellectually dishonest. Please stop if you wish this exchange to continue in a reasonable fashion.

I have not moved the goal posts. I have been consistent in my warnings about the dangers of Darwinism to societies.

I take strong exception to the fact that you claim that without the threat of eternal damnation I and others are incapable of behaving in a moral fashion, following high ethical standards. Do you still insist this is the case?

That position has absolutely nothing to do with my views on American Christians. During my time living in Dallas and during many subsequent visits to the States I knew, worked with and socialised with many American Christians and not a single one so much as hinted that they thought as you do on this point. Please do the right thing and detract your offensive remark.

Let me quote my statement again, so everyone will know why you are acting so morally indignant:

"No free society can remain free, if it can even survive. without the belief by both citizens and leaders that they will be held accountable in the afterlife for their sins (which they will!)"

"There is nothing out of the ordinary in that statement. That is what American Christian's have traditionally believed. Do you not like American Christians? Do you despise our tradition?"​

That is a perfectly reasonable statement. There is nothing to retract.

This is my last response to you.

Dan

 

[pitabread]

The United States is a part of western civilization; and Darwinism has done substantial, perhaps fatal harm to western civilization.

"Fatal" harm?

I have been consistent in my warnings about the dangers of Darwinism to societies.

Consistent in paranoia perhaps.

 

[Bible Research Tools]

Yeah, but since you don't actually know anything about biology, so what? Pseudogenes exist. Every biologist knows that.

Is it a fact they are non-functional?

We can tell when you receive a reasonably intelligent response: those are the ones whose content you ignore.

(A) Collins is not saying that pseudogenes don't exist, only that most of what we call junk DNA is actually functional. Collins is perfectly aware of the existence of pseudogenes. (B) He's wrong about junk DNA. There is precisely zero evidence that the sequence of the genome matters to the well-being of an organism. If you think otherwise, point to the specific finding in a specific paper that provides said evidence. You won't find it.

I believe I have misunderstood the terminology. I associated pseudogenes with Junk DNA. But you seem to be saying that pseudogenes and Junk DNA are not the same, or not totally the same. If they are not the same, then I stand corrected in every count.

Is a functional pseudogene still a pseudogene? If so, how would a change in the functionality of pseudogenes affect the results of your study?

Whatever the case, your research will be proven wrong. It is illogical for humans and chimpanzees to evolve at all, except superficially.

Speaking ill of your betters is one of your less appealing traits.

I am not a celebrity, Stephen, but Miller is. And as a "rock star" evolution celebrity, his playing fast and loose with the truth when things really mattered, such as in a federal court teamed up with a juggernaut -- the misnamed ACLU -- against a rural school district in Pennsylvania, is beyond loathsome. He should have been on the side of the school district and the constitution.

Dan

 

[Bible Research Tools]

And the tracks were present within these regional deposits and within a megasequence. So...how do you think that is possible?

The megasequence current provided the multiple sediment layers to cover over the tracks imprinted on sediment laid down earlier, without disturbing the tracks or the sediment.

I understand there have been tracks on other layers -- some imprinted on layers below the layers where the first evidence of the body fossils was found. How do you explain those tracks?

Dan

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Are you really that thick-skulled? The Congress is NOT the states, nor the people. THE FIRST AMENDMENT RESTRICTS ONLY THE FEDERAL CONGRESS. IT DOES NOT RESTRICT THE STATES! IT WAS INTENDED TO PROTECT THE STATES FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

God help our children learn how to read.

And who makes the laws for the states?! CONGRESS!!

Incredible . . .

Give a childish answer and I'll have no other recourse than to treat you like a child.

Most people do not know history, and are therefore easily fooled, like you.

Dan

The fact that you think that most slave holders in Western history weren't Christians shows that you know zip about Western history.

 

[Bible Research Tools]

Have you ever looked?

Yes, I have looked. Do you know of any proof of macroevolution?

There are various applications in genomics and phylogenetics. Specifically things like functional gene prediction and annotation, identification of druggable targets in pharmacology, and so on.

What does that have to do with macroevolution?

I do find it interesting though how rejection of the acceptance of a scientific theory like evolution goes hand-in-hand with adoption of literalist Christian beliefs.

I find it tragic when one rejects a literal Genesis interpretation in favor of evolution.

Dan

 

[Bible Research Tools]

Because you do not have first hand knowledge of geology, you aren't in a position to tell us that we are wrong. At least with respect to.the geologists I'm the room. The same goes for biology.

Regarding your YouTube videos, they're too vague and simplistic to hold any weight in these discussions. And because you aren't familiar with the information you self, you aren't bringing much to the table.

@Bible Research Tools

You should go do more research (for example, research on the Cretaceous), formulate an argument based on your own knowledge (and not rely on some random person on youtube) and experience, and come back with a technical argument. We will be here waiting.

Perhaps you will help me get started on the right track. How was the fossil record formed?

Dan

 

[Bible Research Tools]

And who makes the laws for the states?! CONGRESS!!

The congress is not authorized to make laws for the states, except in a limited manner. The authorized powers given to the congress and the federal government are listed in Article I, Section 8:

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power​

To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; — And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.​

That's it. That is all the powers the Congress has been authorized by the people. All other powers claimed by the federal government, such as the department of education, federal police, and even the department of health and human services, are not authorized powers, and have therefore been usurped, which is tyranny.

Powers not listed in Article I Section 8 belong to the states and the people, as ratified in the 10th Amendment:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.​

Almost forgot. The Constitution guarantees the states a republican form of government:

Article IV Section. 4. The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence.​

The federal government has usurped that power of the states, as well.

Give a childish answer and I'll have no other recourse than to treat you like a child.

The fact that you think that most slave holders in Western history weren't Christians shows that you know zip about Western history.

Some slaveholders may have claimed to be Christians, and they may have actually thought they were; but the scripture teaches otherwise.

You obviously don't know the U.S. Constitution, and now it appears you don't know the New Testament.

Dan

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

The congress is not authorized to make laws for the states, except in a limited manner. The authorized powers given to the congress and the federal government are listed in Article I, Section 8:

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power​

To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; — And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.​

That's it. That is all the powers the Congress has been authorized by the people. All other powers claimed by the federal government, such as the department of education, federal police, and even the department of health and human services, are not authorized powers, and have therefore been usurped, which is tyranny.

Powers not listed in Article I Section 8 belong to the states and the people, as ratified in the 10th Amendment:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.​

Almost forgot. The Constitution guarantees the states a republican form of government:

Article IV Section. 4. The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence.​

The federal government has usurped that power of the states, as well.

But it's still evidence for the separation for church and state from before Darwin was even born. So your claim about separation of church and state only being implemented after the theory of evolution was proposed is wrong and a flat out rejection of recorded history.

Some slaveholders may have claimed to be Christians, and they may have actually thought they were; but the scripture teaches otherwise.

You obviously don't know the U.S. Constitution, and now it appears you don't know the New Testament.

Dan

Ah, how lovely. A revisionist take on American history and also a No True Christian fallacy too. I call bingo!

 

[Job 33:6]

Yes, I have looked. Do you know of any proof of macroevolution?



What does that have to do with macroevolution?



I find it tragic when one rejects a literal Genesis interpretation in favor of evolution.

Dan

You aren't ready. You're seeking out a weak point I'm a mountain of research, when you're without background knowledge.

Nobody who ever goes through school starts out with paleontology. You first need to brush up on the basics. Rock types , general principals, laws etc.

Then once you're comfortable with fundamentals, you would have to learn of things like structure, the geologic column, you would need familiarity with stratigraphy and geophysics.

Really, no one could ever understand the fossil record without having knowledge of stratigrapjy and structure. And structure further requires an understanding of physics.

Ultimately, if you can't respond to my comments above, you just aren't ready to place judgement on the fossil succession.

 

[Job 33:6]

The megasequence current provided the multiple sediment layers to cover over the tracks imprinted on sediment laid down earlier, without disturbing the tracks or the sediment.

Dan

The more and more we discuss this, the more this wild and crazy flood that allegedly built mountains begins to sound like a beach with small waves, or a lake or wetlands. Simple currents covering up foot tracks. Simple currents filling in burrows and washing over nests with eggs in them. Without obstructing the nests but simultaneously having the energy to traverse continents and having the energy to shift the crust across tectonic plates, hundreds of miles.

It doesn't make sense.

This is supposed to be in the late Mesozoicas well. If we are looking at 600 million years of strata and roughly 540 has already been laid down, this would essentially be toward the very end of the flood.

So, you would have to ponder how it is that so much life thrived through 90% of the flood.

You suggested that perhaps there were earlier parts of the flood that only flooded over certain areas. But Bolivia contains strata spanning the majority of the column. So if hypothetically, a flood laid it's strata, Bolivia was no exception to being covered in water.

There is really no answer to this all. And I know that there isn't, which is why I asked you the question. Knowing it was loaded and that no young earther, not even Kurt wise could answer it.

But this is why you need the background understanding before entering into these discussion, so that you can think for yourself rather than depending on YouTube videos.

 

[Job 33:6]

Perhaps you will help me get started on the right track. How was the fossil record formed?

Dan

You first have to abandon your pre existing bias against alternatives to your view. No one ever learned anything when they entered into the discussion from a position in which they hated or were against what they were attempting to learn about.

 

[Brightmoon]

"Bible Research Tools, post: 72811762, member: 409605"( snip)

I believe I have misunderstood the terminology. I associated pseudogenes with Junk DNA. But you seem to be saying that pseudogenes and Junk DNA are not the same, or not totally the same. If they are not the same, then I stand corrected in every count.

Is a functional pseudogene still a pseudogene? If so, how would a change in the functionality of pseudogenes affect the results of your study?

Iirc Some Pseudogenes have a small regulatory effect on the rate of how much protein is made if the promoter is still working . The protein made is incomplete and gets targeted for disassembly . It prevents a duplicated gene from making too much of a specific protein for the organism by using some type of feedback

Whatever the case, your research will be proven wrong. It is illogical for humans and chimpanzees to evolve at all, except superficially.
That’s creationist lying nonsense, by the way


I am not a celebrity, Stephen, but Miller is. And as a "rock star" evolution celebrity, his playing fast and loose with the truth when things really mattered, such as in a federal court teamed up with a juggernaut -- the misnamed ACLU -- against a rural school district in Pennsylvania, is beyond loathsome. He should have been on the side of the school district and the constitution.

The Dover trial transcripts are online. IF you read them you’ll see that the judge made the right decision about ID being a scam used to shove religion into a public school

 

[Ophiolite]

Some slaveholders may have claimed to be Christians, and they may have actually thought they were; but the scripture teaches otherwise.

It's been some time since I read and studied the forum rules. As a new member you will have done so recently. Am I misremembering when I say it is against those rules to question the professed Christianity of others? Perhaps that only relates to other members, or to living individuals. However, it seems to me that honouring the spirit of such a rule would preclude the accusation you have made here and at best, is in bad taste.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I disagree. Evolution has had it rather easy for much of the past 150 years;

-_- so easy that the matter of whether or not it could be taught in schools resulted in court cases. The only thing I can think of that has had a similarly hard time was heliocentrism, and that came far earlier.

And before you decide to bring up ID losing it's US court case, that was because it violated the separation of church and state in the US. That is, it's not a real theory or hypothesis.

but it will not from this point forward due to challenges from those who can see right through the illogic of it all.

Dan

-_- that you personally find the theory hard to grasp or are overall incredulous about it doesn't make it actually illogical.

 

[Speedwell]

The congress is not authorized to make laws for the states, except in a limited manner. The authorized powers given to the congress and the federal government are listed in Article I, Section 8:

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power​

To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; — And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.​

That's it. That is all the powers the Congress has been authorized by the people. All other powers claimed by the federal government, such as the department of education, federal police, and even the department of health and human services, are not authorized powers, and have therefore been usurped, which is tyranny.

Powers not listed in Article I Section 8 belong to the states and the people, as ratified in the 10th Amendment:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.​

Almost forgot. The Constitution guarantees the states a republican form of government:

Article IV Section. 4. The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence.​

The federal government has usurped that power of the states, as well.



Some slaveholders may have claimed to be Christians, and they may have actually thought they were; but the scripture teaches otherwise.

You obviously don't know the U.S. Constitution, and now it appears you don't know the New Testament.

Dan

You forget the 14th Amendment,

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Which, in effect, applies the Bill of Rights to state governments.

 

[PsychoSarah]

THE FIRST AMENDMENT RESTRICTS ONLY THE FEDERAL CONGRESS.

It helps to actually post it when making your point:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

However, the loophole you are mentioning was fixed in the 14th amendment, though the myth that states are allowed to pass laws that violate freedom of religion, etc., persists.

From the 14th amendment of the US constitution:
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

It makes it sound like you think individual states should be allowed to pass laws that, say, favor

IT DOES NOT RESTRICT THE STATES! IT WAS INTENDED TO PROTECT THE STATES FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

-_- replace the word "states" with "citizens of the United States". Makes it sound better. Also, I'd avoid using all caps if you want to convince people of something.

But yes, while the 1st amendment didn't include the states, the 14th covers up that loophole.

Most people do not know history, and are therefore easily fooled, like you.

Dan

Apparently, you didn't bother to consider the possibility that other amendments could influence how the rules of the first one are applied.

 

[Bible Research Tools]

But it's still evidence for the separation for church and state from before Darwin was even born. So your claim about separation of church and state only being implemented after the theory of evolution was proposed is wrong and a flat out rejection of recorded history.

Again, there is no such thing in the constitution as separation of church and state. That was an ACLU perversion of the first amendment.

Ah, how lovely. A revisionist take on American history and also a No True Christian fallacy too. I call bingo!

Brilliant . . .

Dan

 

[Bible Research Tools]

You aren't ready. You're seeking out a weak point I'm a mountain of research, when you're without background knowledge.

I am seeking out any solid evidence for evolutionary geology/paleontology or macroevolution. Ankle-biting is not evidence.

Nobody who ever goes through school starts out with paleontology. You first need to brush up on the basics. Rock types , general principals, laws etc.

Then once you're comfortable with fundamentals, you would have to learn of things like structure, the geologic column, you would need familiarity with stratigraphy and geophysics.

Really, no one could ever understand the fossil record without having knowledge of stratigrapjy and structure. And structure further requires an understanding of physics.

Ultimately, if you can't respond to my comments above, you just aren't ready to place judgement on the fossil succession.

The fossil record doesn't support evolution. It does support a global flood.

Dan