Co-Redeemer?

[sunlover1]

Sort of like when Paul says, it is better for a man not to touch a woman, and I would that all men were even as I myself, doesn't really mean what it looks like he is saying. Afterall, we were all created with certain body parts, and heck, I'm gonna use them. That's my purpose, dontchaknow, and Paul wasn't Christ, so we really don't have to follow him . . . /sarcasm

This isn't directed at you Tyndale.

In impatience,
Christina

Good point.
I too am wondering why Paul said this.
Because like you mention, God did
create our bodies obviously for sex as
well.

Instead of getting impatient,
let's just look at
the whole of the Bible and maybe
we can figure it out.
It never contradicts itself.
Sometimes it may appear that
way but there's always an explaination.

sunlover

 

[Tyndale]

Surely we shouldn't be trying to explain the bible using wisdom of words. The words simply mean what they say, plain and simple. We shouldn't be trying to explain what simply isn't there.

Sort of like when Paul says, it is better for a man not to touch a woman, and I would that all men were even as I myself, doesn't really mean what it looks like he is saying. Afterall, we were all created with certain body parts, and heck, I'm gonna use them. That's my purpose, dontchaknow, and Paul wasn't Christ, so we really don't have to follow him . . . /sarcasm

This isn't directed at you Tyndale.

In impatience,
Christina

Without going into a deap and wise understanding, Paul says, "I speak this by permission, and not of commandment"

 

[sunlover1]

Without going into a deap and wise understanding, Paul says, "I speak this by permission, and not of commandment"

Thanks Tyndale,
And this is important too.
so it's Pauls Words, not God's.

Are there other places in the Bible
that speak of marriage or sex as
being unholy or defiled, and
abstinence as holier or preferred by
God?

 

[Uphill Battle]

Thanks Tyndale,
And this is important too.
so it's Pauls Words, not God's.

Are there other places in the Bible
that speak of marriage or sex as
being unholy or defiled, and
abstinence as holier or preferred by
God?

nope.

 

[Tyndale]

Are there other places in the Bible
that speak of marriage or sex as
being unholy or defiled, and
abstinence as holier or preferred by
God?

not to my knowledge, but I make errors.

 

[Asinner]

Join me over here . . . http://www.christianforums.com/t5049880-on-virginity-what-the-holy-scriptures-teach.html

 

[sunlover1]

not to my knowledge, but I make errors.

Thanks though.

 

[repentant]

Thanks Tyndale,
And this is important too.
so it's Pauls Words, not God's.

So then what you are saying is that not ALL that is in Scripture is the infalliable Word of God?

Are there other places in the Bible
that speak of marriage or sex as
being unholy or defiled, and
abstinence as holier or preferred by
God?

Well sex did not happen till after the fall. God made man and woman originally without them having sex. They probably didn't even have the bodies we do, until after the fall.

Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Of course this is only a theory.

So if sex was not the original plan, and was part of the fall, then it is only logical that virginity is a higher calling, and this as Asinner pointed out in that other thread, is in Scripture..

 

[Mobiosity]

Well sex did not happen till after the fall. God made man and woman originally without them having sex. They probably didn't even have the bodies we do, until after the fall.

Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Of course this is only a theory.

So if sex was not the original plan, and was part of the fall, then it is only logical that virginity is a higher calling, and this as Asinner pointed out in that other thread, is in Scripture..

"Genesis 2: 24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh. "
The fall didn't happen until Genesis 3. So it appears they did have the equipment for sex before the fall and the use it was designed for. How else can two become one?

 

[repentant]

"Genesis 2: 24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh. "
The fall didn't happen until Genesis 3. So it appears they did have the equipment for sex before the fall and the use it was designed for. How else can two become one?

Marriage?

Mark 10
1And he arose from thence, and cometh into the coasts of Judaea by the farther side of Jordan: and the people resort unto him again; and, as he was wont, he taught them again.

2And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away (divorce) his wife? tempting him.

3And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?

4And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.

5And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.

6But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

7For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;

8And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

Are they talking about sex here...or marriage?

 

[Uphill Battle]

Marriage?

Mark 10
1And he arose from thence, and cometh into the coasts of Judaea by the farther side of Jordan: and the people resort unto him again; and, as he was wont, he taught them again.

2And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away (divorce) his wife? tempting him.

3And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?

4And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.

5And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.

6But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

7For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;

8And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

Are they talking about sex here...or marriage?

and the command to be fruitful and multiply?

Genesis 1:28 the command was prior to the fall.

exactly how would they accomplish this, if they weren't to have sex?

 

[Mobiosity]

Marriage?

Mark 10
1And he arose from thence, and cometh into the coasts of Judaea by the farther side of Jordan: and the people resort unto him again; and, as he was wont, he taught them again.

2And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away (divorce) his wife? tempting him.

3And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?

4And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.

5And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.

6But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

7For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;

8And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

Are they talking about sex here...or marriage?

Jesus is answering a question about divorce, so they are of course discussing marriage. Marriage includes sex, so Adam and Eve were, in God's eyes married, they must have been making mad passionate love in the Garden of Eden. What a beautiful mental picture that makes. The perfection and peace of Eden, shared in that special way with your spouse.

 

[repentant]

and the command to be fruitful and multiply?

Genesis 1:28 the command was prior to the fall.

exactly how would they accomplish this, if they weren't to have sex?

Who knows. I gues it depends on what account you look at as far as Adam and Eve's creation..Genesis Ch. 1 or Gen. Ch. 2...

 

[repentant]

Jesus is answering a question about divorce, so they are of course discussing marriage. Marriage includes sex, so Adam and Eve were, in God's eyes married, they must have been making mad passionate love in the Garden of Eden. What a beautiful mental picture that makes. The perfection and peace of Eden, shared in that special way with your spouse.

exactly, but before you implied it meant sex...the become one flesh part..

Where does it say marriage includes sex, or that is has to?

 

[tulc]

Where does it say marriage includes sex, or that is has to?

Well what about the part about being fruitful and multiplying? How about the part where we arn't supposed to defraud one another because we don't control our own bodies, they also belong to our spouses? There are a few more.
tulc(just got the first cup of the day!)

 

[Asinner]

Well what about the part about being fruitful and multiplying? How about the part where we arn't supposed to defraud one another because we don't control our own bodies, they also belong to our spouses? There are a few more.
tulc(just got the first cup of the day!)

For the most part, what you say is true. There is another aspect to this, however.

But this I say, brethren, the time [is] short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none . . .

because

He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:
-1Cor 7

Love,
Christina

 

[Uphill Battle]

For the most part, what you say is true. There is another aspect to this, however.

But this I say, brethren, the time [is] short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none . . .

because

He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:
-1Cor 7

Love,
Christina

let's put it in context, instead of prooftexting, shall we?


26Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for you to remain as you are. 27Are you married? Do not seek a divorce. Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife. 28But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.
29What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none; 30those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; 31those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.

the real meaning of the passage is discovered when you read it ALL.... not just the verse that supports what you want it to.

 

[Asinner]

let's put it in context, instead of prooftexting, shall we?


26Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for you to remain as you are. 27Are you married? Do not seek a divorce. Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife. 28But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.
29What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none; 30those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; 31those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.

the real meaning of the passage is discovered when you read it ALL.... not just the verse that supports what you want it to.

The meaning is this . . . we should be preparing for the age to come because this life is short. Paul then tells us how to do this.

Love,
Christina

 

[Uphill Battle]

The meaning is this . . . we should be preparing for the age to come because this life is short. Paul then tells us how to do this.

Love,
Christina

then why are any of us marrying then?

 

[Asinner]

then why are any of us marrying then?

Most protestants do. Monasticism, though, is flourishing.

Love,
Christina