Co-Redeemer?

[IamAdopted]

How is it that Mary can hold this title? She had nothing to do with redeeming man from sin?

 

[tulc]

She had nothing to do with redeeming man from sin?

Uhmmm I don't believe Mary is a co-redeemer but I don't understand how you can say she had nothing to do with it. She did bare Him, she did raise Him and she loved Him first.
tulc(give the woman her due at least)

 

[mshupe1959]

I may be wrong, but the only people who use that title are people that don't understand Catholicism, or are trying to degrade it in some way. I am going through RCIA and there has been no mention of this. Jesus Christ it the only redeemer. But as Tulc so well put it, at least give her her due.

 

[IamAdopted]

I may be wrong, but the only people who use that title are people that don't understand Catholicism, or are trying to degrade it in some way. I am going through RCIA and there has been no mention of this. Jesus Christ it the only redeemer. But as Tulc so well put it, at least give her her due.

I am talking about redeemer.. Not Him being Born and her being the mother than raised Him.. But the redemption of man.. How does she get the title? How was she Co-Redeemer? Yes she did indeed have a part in His birth.. She is the one whom gave Birth to Him. She raised Him up. She loved Him and He loved Her.. She grieved probably more than we can even imagine when She had to see Him Hang on the cross.. I can hurt inside for her.. I still don't see how she can be thought Co-Redeemer?

 

[Veritas]

I am talking about redeemer.. Not Him being Born and her being the mother than raised Him.. But the redemption of man.. How does she get the title? How was she Co-Redeemer? Yes she did indeed have a part in His birth.. She is the one whom gave Birth to Him. She raised Him up. She loved Him and He loved Her.. She grieved probably more than we can even imagine when She had to see Him Hang on the cross.. I can hurt inside for her.. I still don't see how she can be thought Co-Redeemer?

You're hung up on your definition of the word. "Co" does not mean that Mary is the same as Jesus in that she died for our sins. No one has said such a thing. But because Mary co-operated with God in the Plan of Salvation, she could be called "co-redeemer". Think of it this way: anyone who co-operates with God in the salvation of another, is a "co-redeemer". That means if you lead someone to Christ, you too, are a "co-redeemer".

Mary has a singular place in history and the Plan of Salvation. By her humble submission to God, she allowed herself to be "overshadowed by the Holy Spirit" to conceive Jesus and have God in the flesh reside in her womb. This is an awesome event in all of human history!!! The only other time the Holy Spirit overshadowed something was Ark of the [Old] Covenant. That is one of the reason's why Mary is often referred to the Ark of the Covenant.

Just an FYI: Mary as "co-redeemer" is not official Church teaching and even though some do openly refer to her as such, it is not considered normative. So please don't go around stating that this is what Catholic believe. It's just somehting that theologians have been discussing for centuries.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

I may be wrong, but the only people who use that title are people that don't understand Catholicism, or are trying to degrade it in some way. I am going through RCIA and there has been no mention of this. Jesus Christ it the only redeemer. But as Tulc so well put it, at least give her her due.

I rarely hear this term from noncatholics but from Catholics with some regularity. I'm sure you'll get to it in your RCIA class as get to all those many Mariology teachings (several of which are dogmas).

The Co-Redemptrix is a teaching of the Catholic Church. It's not dogma, but it is a teaching of the Church. I could give you the quotes, references and Scriptures behind it, as I was taught in the CC, but that's better coming from one of our Catholic brothers and sisters.


"Co-" means "together with" and usually (but not always) implies equally. My dictionary gives the primary meaning of this prefix as "together with, jointly, equally."



Pax!


May God richly bless you and yours in Christ our Suffering Servant in this holy season of Lent.


- Josiah

 

[Veritas]

I rarely hear this term from noncatholics but from Catholics with some regularity. I'm sure you'll get to it in your RCIA class as get to all those many Mariology teachings (several of which are dogmas).

The Co-Redemptrix is a teaching of the Catholic Church. It's not dogma, but it is a teaching of the Church. I could give you the quotes, references and Scriptures behind it, as I was taught in the CC, but that's better coming from one of our Catholic brothers and sisters.


"Co-" means "together with" and usually (but not always) implies equally. My dictionary gives the primary meaning of this prefix as "together with, jointly, equally."



Pax!


May God richly bless you and yours in Christ our Suffering Servant in this holy season of Lent.


- Josiah

You are wrong that it is a teaching of the Church. There is no ex cathedra teaching in regard to this. And in this case as I have already explained, "co" does not mean equally. If you read what the theologians have written (which you obviously haven't), then you would know that none have said that Mary is the same as Jesus and died for our sins. Period. End of story.

 

[simonthezealot]

Pius XI: “You young people [Spanish pilgrims] ought to associate yourselves with the thoughts and desires of our Blessed Lady, who is our Mother and Co‑redemptrix.

 

[simonthezealot]

BENEDICT XV: 'The Blessed Virgin suffered with her suffering Son and nearly died with Him when He died; she abdicated her maternal rights over her Son for the salvation of men, and so far as it appertained to her she immolated her Son to placate the divine justice; so that she may rightly be said to have redeemed the human race with Christ."

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

You are wrong that it is a teaching of the Church. There is no ex cathedra teaching in regard to this. And in this case as I have already explained, "co" does not mean equally. If you read what the theologians have written (which you obviously haven't), then you would know that none have said that Mary is the same as Jesus and died for our sins. Period. End of story.

I said it's not dogma.

It is taught; I learned it in the CC.

I didn't say the CC says Mary and Jesus are EQUAL redeemers.

An article appeared in Newsweek Magazine (8/25/97, p. 49) that examined an issue developing in Catholicism where petitioners are requesting the Pope to exercise papal infallibility to proclaim Mary as "Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix of All Graces, and Advocate for the People of God." I understand that movement as gained much steam in the past few years, but it hasn't happened....yet. Pope John Paul II did officially use the title on at least 6 formal occasions (John Paul II, Greetings to the Sick Following General Audience (Sept. 8, 1982); Angelus Address (Nov. 4, 1984), L'Osservatore Romano, 860: 1; Palm Sunday Address at Alborada, Guayaquil, Ecuador (Jan. 31, 1985), L'Osservatore Romano, 876: 7; Palm Sunday and World Youth Day Address(March 31, 1985), L'Osservatore Romano, 880: 12; Address to Federated Alliance of Transportation of Sick to Lourdes (March 24, 1990); Address Commemorating Sixth Centenary of Canonization of St. Bridget of Sweden (Oct. 6, 1991), L'Osservatore Romano, 1211: 4.), however.


Thank you.

 

[Rick Otto]

They can say anything they want, but unless it is carved in offical stone, they can't be held accountable for it?

Damage control usualy heads for redefinition, first. It is the flip side of obscuring with sophisticated redundancies.

I think it was our good sister, Pam(PassThePeace) that told us That they know their traditions are right beacause they come from the same "Deposit of Faith".
What is the "Deposit of Faith"? The New Catholic Dictionary defines it as Scripture & Tradition.

See what I mean?

 

[Rhamiel]

i kind of resent that Rick, we have teachers and preachers same as anyone else, do they always use words that aply to the modern way of looking at things? Does a protestant preacher ever say something odd, you betcha, but we don't make a big deal about it.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Jesus was referred to as the new Adam.
Mary was the new Eve.

Only God can redeem us. Jesus and Mary did what was needed by man for us to be redeemed by God.

 

[Rhamiel]

Yes Simon, Mary is a really great Lady, what is your point?

 

[IamAdopted]

Jesus was referred to as the new Adam.
Mary was the new Eve.

Only God can redeem us. Jesus and Mary did what was needed by man for us to be redeemed by God.

No where in scripture is it written that Mary was the new Eve. This has been added..

 

[Rick Otto]

Nobody else has a Pope, nobody else speaks "Ex Cathedra", nobody else has a "Magesterium", etc., etc., etc.
Tell me what "modern way of looking at things" is distorting any of these words, bro...

Pius XI: “You young people [Spanish pilgrims] ought to associate yourselves with the thoughts and desires of our Blessed Lady, who is our Mother and Co‑redemptrix.

and
BENEDICT XV: 'The Blessed Virgin suffered with her suffering Son and nearly died with Him when He died; she abdicated her maternal rights over her Son for the salvation of men, and so far as it appertained to her she immolated her Son to placate the divine justice; so that she may rightly be said to have redeemed the human race with Christ."

 

[Boxmaker]

I rarely hear this term from noncatholics but from Catholics with some regularity. I'm sure you'll get to it in your RCIA class as get to all those many Mariology teachings (several of which are dogmas).

The Co-Redemptrix is a teaching of the Catholic Church. It's not dogma, but it is a teaching of the Church. I could give you the quotes, references and Scriptures behind it, as I was taught in the CC, but that's better coming from one of our Catholic brothers and sisters.


"Co-" means "together with" and usually (but not always) implies equally. My dictionary gives the primary meaning of this prefix as "together with, jointly, equally."



Pax!


May God richly bless you and yours in Christ our Suffering Servant in this holy season of Lent.


- Josiah

What Co-Redemptrix means is that the suffering of Christ on the cross was insufficient to forgive us. In the words of John-Paul II, Mary's intense suffereing at the foot of Jesus's cross were, "also a contribution to the Redemption of us all" (Salvifici Doloris, n.25).http://www.catholicsource.net/articles/coredemptrix.html

The Catholic Church, at its core, denys the sufficiency of Christ dieing for the forgiveness of sins.

 

[repentant]

No where in scripture is it written that Mary was the new Eve. This has been added..

New Eve refer's to Mary doing what Eve didn't. By Eve's disobedience, death came into the world..and by Mary's obedience, life came into to the world. Is this something you would agree with? This is very Scriptural. You are just using semantics and searching for terms. Find the word Trinity in Scripture..


This is not an acknowledgment of the RCC teaching of co-redemtrix..

 

[IamAdopted]

New Eve refer's to Mary doing what Eve didn't. By Eve's disobedience, death came into the world..and by Mary's obedience, life came into to the world. Is this something you would agree with? This is very Scriptural. You are just using semantics and searching for terms. Find the word Trinity in Scripture..


This is not an acknowledgment of the RCC teaching of co-redemtrix..

The word itself is not in there this is true but you see the trinity at work from Genesis to Revelation.. You don't see Mary being referred to at all for being the new Eve. In fact it is not even hinted at.. Someone somewhere along the line must have thought this on thier own.. Husband and wife = Mother and Son? Nope don't add up.

 

[benedictine]

BENEDICT XV: 'The Blessed Virgin suffered with her suffering Son and nearly died with Him when He died;

As would any mother who cared for her child.

she abdicated her maternal rights over her Son for the salvation of men, and so far as it appertained to her she immolated her Son to placate the divine justice;

She did not try to interfere with the will of God.

so that she may rightly be said to have redeemed the human race with Christ."

She assisted in the Salvation of Mankind, by reversing the curse of Eve.