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Clouds in the Bible

Explorer22

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Barry H. Downing was pastor of Northminster Presbyterian Church, Endwell, New York. He writes:

"The central event in the Old Testament is the Exodus; the Hebrew people were slaves in Egypt, so the Bible reports, and God sent an "angel" to Moses and called him to lead the Israelites out of Egypt. After various plagues came upon the Egyptians, the Israelites escaped, and for the next 40 years "the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of cloud to lead them along the way, and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, that they might travel by day and by night" (Exodus 13:21). This strange aerial object looked cloudlike during the day and glowed in the dark, a description often associated with modern flying saucers (UFOs). Eventually this strange "cloud" seemed to defeat the Egyptians in battle; it gave guidance and instructions to Moses, and this "angel" from God even provided Moses with the Ten Commandments....
The New Testament focuses on the person of a man named Jesus, who is recorded to have said, "You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world" (John 8:23). Jesus often claimed to have come from another world; he is reported to have had contact with beings from another world, such as during his Resurrection from the dead. He accepted the teachings of Moses, and claimed to be part of a whole plan which included the Old Testament religion.
After Jesus had finished his ministry on Earth, the Bible reports that he was taken off into space in something which might be a space vehicle. The disciples were gathered with Jesus on the Mount of Olives just outside Jerusalem, and when he finished speaking "as they [the disciples] were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight" (Acts 1:9).
But how could Jesus have been taken off into space in a cloud?.....He did not come from our world; he came from another world, and eventually he returned to that world in a "cloud." Once Jesus asked, "Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending where he was before?" (John 6:62). Ordinary white, fluffy cumulus clouds do not carry people off into space. In the space age I believe that we are compelled to ask: "Was this an ordinary cloud, or was this the way the Bible described some sort of space vehicle? This ascension "cloud" is one example of many "Unidentified Flying Objects" (UFOs) which are described in the Bible. There is no reason to expect Biblical people to call a flying saucer a flying saucer even if they saw one. But if they should have contact with a flying saucer, what would they call it? A "cloud"? I do not think that the Biblical people believed that ordinary clouds carry people about in space....Just as UFO is a "short" form for Unidentified Flying Object, so a "cloud" is the Bible's "short" form for some sort of space vehicle which seems to look and operate very much like modern flying saucers."
(from the book "The Bible and Flying Saucers" by Barry H. Downing)
 

RevelationTestament

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Barry H. Downing was pastor of Northminster Presbyterian Church, Endwell, New York. He writes:

"The central event in the Old Testament is the Exodus; the Hebrew people were slaves in Egypt, so the Bible reports, and God sent an "angel" to Moses and called him to lead the Israelites out of Egypt. After various plagues came upon the Egyptians, the Israelites escaped, and for the next 40 years "the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of cloud to lead them along the way, and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, that they might travel by day and by night" (Exodus 13:21). This strange aerial object looked cloudlike during the day and glowed in the dark, a description often associated with modern flying saucers (UFOs). Eventually this strange "cloud" seemed to defeat the Egyptians in battle; it gave guidance and instructions to Moses, and this "angel" from God even provided Moses with the Ten Commandments....
The New Testament focuses on the person of a man named Jesus, who is recorded to have said, "You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world" (John 8:23). Jesus often claimed to have come from another world; he is reported to have had contact with beings from another world, such as during his Resurrection from the dead. He accepted the teachings of Moses, and claimed to be part of a whole plan which included the Old Testament religion.
No. He and Peter taught that He went to speak to those in the grave while in spirit form. He taught the spirits that could live godly, but had been disobedient while on the earth.
After Jesus had finished his ministry on Earth, the Bible reports that he was taken off into space in something which might be a space vehicle. The disciples were gathered with Jesus on the Mount of Olives just outside Jerusalem, and when he finished speaking "as they [the disciples] were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight" (Acts 1:9).
But how could Jesus have been taken off into space in a cloud?.....He did not come from our world; he came from another world, and eventually he returned to that world in a "cloud." Once Jesus asked, "Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending where he was before?" (John 6:62). Ordinary white, fluffy cumulus clouds do not carry people off into space. In the space age I believe that we are compelled to ask: "Was this an ordinary cloud, or was this the way the Bible described some sort of space vehicle? This ascension "cloud" is one example of many "Unidentified Flying Objects" (UFOs) which are described in the Bible. There is no reason to expect Biblical people to call a flying saucer a flying saucer even if they saw one. But if they should have contact with a flying saucer, what would they call it? A "cloud"? I do not think that the Biblical people believed that ordinary clouds carry people about in space....Just as UFO is a "short" form for Unidentified Flying Object, so a "cloud" is the Bible's "short" form for some sort of space vehicle which seems to look and operate very much like modern flying saucers."
(from the book "The Bible and Flying Saucers" by Barry H. Downing)
I think I'll put Mr Barry Downing on my do not read list.
 
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Soulgazer

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Clouds were used in a lot of symbolism. From what I have read, "Acts" was pretty much a catholic school construction, based on earlier myths and stories with a pinch of pious fantasy. It wasn't included in Marcion's Canon, which it most certainly would have been had it been known to him. The catholic schools often took spiritual elements of the earlier schools and applied them in a literal manner. In like manner, the ascension references were probably added into John, as I have also read that all the new testament scripture were "harmonized".
If it was original to John , which started as a gnostic text, It would be impossible to deconstruct the original meaning of the image of a cloud. It may have a spiritual meaning, or even be a literary clue that what was coming next should be treated in a spiritual nature. People just don't commonly dissapear into "clouds", and literary symbolism, such as the presence of an "angel" often signified a visionary writing. It may be as simple as "we don't know where He went".

As far as the Exodus reference, I believe that it refers to a common military marching device. This device was a spherical burner on a long pole, that burned pitch soaked feul. At night the top and dampers were open allowing a pillar of flame that could be seen for miles, and during the day, the top and dampers were closed, permiting a column of smoke that could also be seen for miles. The purpose of this device was so that the tail end of an army could know where the head of the army was.
 
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drstevej

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Downing wrote The Bible and Flying Saucers in 1968. He wrote in the book that Jesus was an extraterrestrial sent to earth to rid the world of sin and wickedness... Downing also believed that Jesus left earth in a flying saucer to another planet, or perhaps another spatial dimension. In the book Downing claimed that angels from the Bible were actually aliens and that the "angelic aliens" spoke to Moses on Mount Sinai where he boarded a UFO to receive stone tablets, and specifications for the construction of the Tabernacle. According to Downing, aliens spoke to Elijah and guided the ancient Israelites, providing them with manna in the wilderness. Downing also claimed in the book that a flying vehicle operated by intelligent alien beings was responsible for the parting of the Red Sea

wikipedia

L Ron Hubbard is so jealous!
 
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zeke37

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12 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, (see verses 22-24)


7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.


26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.


13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.


14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

see Psalm 68:17-18
compare with the very end of the gospels where Jesus rises
and then compare to Acts1...

angels are the cloud....
 
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Christopher M Nance

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I was under the impression that the people were led by use of a torch on top of a pole. People in the desert use this method even today. At night the flame is visible, and during the day they would burn materials that let off smoke, which is easier to see than a flame in the day.
 
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Anto9us

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As a character in some movie said:

"Chariots of the gods, man - they practically OWN Venuzuela!"

We need Joni Mitchell music -- "Clouds" -- as background for this thread...

It is said 'coming in clouds' can mean JUDGEMENT

a cloud received Jesus out of the disciples sight - it doesn't say the CLOUD WAS THE VEHICLE that he flew up in

Maybe a tractor beam lifted him up so far, then a cloud obscured him cuz the flying saucer might have scared the dung out of the disciples if they had seen it - and Jesus flew off in a manner unobserved

I have never heard of this "pitch on a pole" idea and can offer no opinion except -

that's a heckuva lot of PITCH to use 24/7 day after day

just sayin
 
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Anto9us

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zeke - we don't have the BOOKS and CHAPTERS, man!

I'm not that good to just GO BY VERSE NUMBERS ALONE - but I think the second one
is from Revelation...

and now - here are some basketball scores --

101-89

96-77

112-101

and 109-106 (in Overtime)
 
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timewerx

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But how could Jesus have been taken off into space in a cloud?.....He did not come from our world; he came from another world, and eventually he returned to that world in a "cloud."

I think you are simply lost in translation in Acts 1:9. It only said a cloud Hid His ascent into the heavens.

Acts 1:9 Greek Texts and Analysis

Ever seen an airplane hid by clouds as it climbed to a cloudy sky?

I don't think the creator of the Universe will stoop down to the level of technology!^_^

When nature and technology meets, technology always end up in million pieces! Down to subatomic particles if technology meets a black hole! :thumbsup:
 
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timewerx

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Also, alien UFOs are up to no good.

I've been visited by some. I thought they were angels during that time, and they used to be nice to me.

They told me I am supposed to do great things for God in the last days that I would build a great city in Earth orbit and I would later on, command a fleet of spaceships to rapture the people of God and destroy the armies of the antichrist....

....Yes I believed that! But not for long! Later on, I would discover them to be impostors. From that time, they became my enemies. Gave me tons of nightmares, terrible headaches.

Be careful with the enemy! They'll try to get you by stroking your ego!:thumbsup:
 
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Anto9us

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Good news!

These "Towers" that blew smoke by day and fire by night -

I JUST GOT THE LAST ONE ON EBAY!

They function as BOTH Time Machine and Spaceship!

I am off to visit Margaret Macdonald in old Scotland (and others at her place for big party, prayer meeting, and barbecue.)
 
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drstevej

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Good news!

These "Towers" that blew smoke by day and fire by night -

I JUST GOT THE LAST ONE ON EBAY!

They function as BOTH Time Machine and Spaceship!

I am off to visit Margaret Macdonald in old Scotland (and others at her place for big party, prayer meeting, and barbecue.)

Be careful, you may well be the Barbecue.
 
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timewerx

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These "Towers" that blew smoke by day and fire by night -

I JUST GOT THE LAST ONE ON EBAY!

They function as BOTH Time Machine and Spaceship!

Hmm, a tower that blew smoke by day and fire by night and function as both time machine and spaceship...

...The answer to your riddle is:

Substance abuse!
 
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LilLamb219

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MOD HAT ON

lamb.jpg


Please get this thread back on topic...okay? Thank you :)


MOD HAT OFF
 
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drstevej

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The Old Testament makes use of eight diverse Hebrew words in 167 passages to refer to clouds of dust, smoke, rain, storm, and fog. Clouds also symbolize changeability and transition (Job 30:15; Isaiah 44:22; Hosea 6:4). The prophesy of the Christ coming the second time is described as "coming in the clouds." (Acts 1:9 and Acts 1:11).

What Does Cloud Mean In Hebrew? - Blurtit

Nice summary
 
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Anto9us

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"After Jesus had finished his ministry on Earth, the Bible reports that he was taken off into space in something which might be a space vehicle."

To GET BACK TO THE TOPIC, in a thread where it has been insinuated that I am involved in SUBSTANCE ABUSE -

in other words where it has been deemed not kosher for a thread to wander off topic, but is apparently ok for one poster to accuse another of drug abuse -

let me say that it is simply NOT TRUE that

"the Bible reports that he was taken off into space in something which might be a space vehicle"

The Bible says NOTHING about Jesus being taken off "into space" and/or "in something" - or "IN anything"

Just says "a cloud received Him out of their (the disciples') sight."

Then we (in the early part of this thread) are off into the clouds of the Old Testament concerning the pillar of cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night being something either alien or technological/natural rather than something which God may have "created by divine fiat" to guide the Israelites during the Exodus.

As for the first point - I think we should look at what the Bible ACTUALLY SAYS rather than what someone CONJECTURES that it has said.

As for the second point, I would just like to say that it matters not one whit to me whether some event in the Bible

1. happened due to some naturalistic "rational" explanation

or

2. happened due to some "super-natural occurrence by Divine Fiat"

or

3. happened as the result of the actions of advanced extra-terrestrial beings from the Pleiades system or elsewhere



My "first move" in contemplating some biblical occurrence which SEEMS beyond the realm of normal possibility is

NEITHER to "insist on some rational explanation"

NOR to say "well, the Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it" and assume God worked some special miracle,

NOR to look for the intervention of some Bug-Eyed Brainy Bimbo from Betelgeuse.


CLOUDS in the Bible can OBSCURE (AS IN THE CASE OF Jesus' ASCENSION)

or

they can serve as a signpost (as in being a signal for Israelites to follow in the Exodus)



Clouds can be something for you to SEE,

or something to KEEP YOU FROM SEEING.



"I've looked at CLOUDS that way."
 
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