Clergy who abuse

[theseed]

It's an American male thing.

It is true that men are more likely to sexually abuse, howerever, women are more likely to physically abuse men. There is alot of abuse from both sexes. I also doubt that child abuse is limited to America.

There are some notable oddities about RC abuse. 3% of RC priest sexually abuse, while only 1% of the population is known to do this. Also, pedophiles usually have below average intelligence, whereas RC priest have an average IQ of 120.

 

[mesue]

I am just going to answer your question mesue... I am not trying to debate.

The webmaster of that site is Protestant ( I do not know his denominational affiliation)--he originated it to address the problem of non Catholic clergy abuse in light of all of the press the Catholic Church was getting over it.

From the website:


Again, just answering you.. not debating.

Michelle

You're right and I stand corrected.
There is info on the Catholic Church.
http://www.survivorsfirst.org/db-part1.html
It lists 573 all together. I don't know when this site was last updated since 1997.
I'm not debating, just stating facts.

 

[Miss Shelby]

never mind I will do this via pm.. sorry

 

[P_G]

Here is an interesting and very sad aside to this whole story from my persopective AS clergy.

When I am dressed so as to be identifiable as clergy (ie wearing a colar) as I do
sometimes durring hospital visits, public meetings and in churches where it is expected. I have had people pull their children aside and give me the most audacious looks.

There once was a day when any member of the clergy be it a priest or nun or pastor of a protestant church or a rabbi was very respected in the community. I hate to say it today is not that day.

As the day of the great battle in Meggido draws near, the world will become less and less tolerant of the message of the cross. The clergy is on the front lines and we need not only your prayer support but also your love and friendship.

Yes the very few have brought terrible condemnation on the many. Your Pastor is on the front line! Every day shepherding you his flock.

Have you let him know in a tangable way lately that you love him?


Give that some thought a bit ey?


Blessings

Pastor George

 

[bleechers]

Cardinal Law's actions were despicable. No one debates that. What is questionable is the notion that this kind of behavior is uniquely Catholic.

I would not argue that abuse is "uniquely Catholic". Sorry if I implied that.

I am not comparing Catholic priests and say Baptist pastors (I've known many wonderful of each). I was an altar boy and an acolyte and never felt threatened sexually by a priest. The distinction that I am trying to make deals with the good Cardinal.

There is a distinct difference. In the case of Cardinal Law, we are dealing with someone who has been afforded a position in which his decisions for his diocese must be adhered to. His pastorate must bow "will and intellect" to his decrees. That makes his situation unique. It makes him able to act uniquely unhindered or uquestioned. This is unique in Catholicism.

The faithful under him were obliged to submit (will and intellect) to his decisions. If he moved a priest to a different parish, who wanted to question him? The Syllabus of Errors teaches that the CC is superior to civil law. In a setting that features both a Cardinal's decision and a church dogma that makes it superior to civil law, secrecy for decades is far more likely than in another situation...

[I am not suggesting that he moved priests around "in the name of Christ" my comments only reflect the powers assigned to his office... which create an atmosphere where he can function unhindered.]

As a point of Information

"... the faithful, for their part, are obliged to submit to their bishops' decision, made in the name of Christ, in matters of faith and morals, and to adhere to it with a ready and respectful allegiance of mind. This loyal submission of the will and intellect must be given, in a special way, to the authentic teaching authority of the Roman Pontiff, even when he does not speak ex cathedra in such wise, indeed, that his supreme teaching authority be acknowledged with respect, and the one sincerely adhere to decision made by him, conformably with his manifest mind and intention..."

Vatican Council II: The Conciliar and Post Conciliar Documents (Austin Flannery, O.P.) Costello Publishing.

As a Cardinal, he is a member of a class of men than can make infallible decrees. He is the absolute highest authority (next to the Pope) for the people in his diocese. I grew up under John Cardinal Krol. He made decrees for our diocese that had eternal consequences. I know I would never dare question the Cardinal.

That is the distinction to which I referred.

Point of information ("member... infallible decrees").

Catholic Universal Catechism:

Para 891 "The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful--who confirms his brethren in the faith--he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals. ... The infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter's successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium," above all in an Ecumenical Council. ... This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself.

Quotes included merely to verify statements made. Thanks!

 

[Iollain]

Amen to that last post Pastor George, this is so true.

ey?

Now being a Canadian i will have to correct you, the correct writing of ey, is EH, ok eh? hehe

 

[Monica02]

are prist who molest boys really followers of god?

i just want to know something. why is it on the tv you hear about prists molesting ppl every week once (i dont watch the news much, i guess i was bored that month. i dont know how often but) its always roman catholic leaders? is it more popular with prists? ive never heard of a paster doing it. or is the news just against the catholic faith or something? i heard that a rc prist cant marry. thats why the news said its popular. now im hearing about its just a feeling. marrying would change it. then why havent i heard anything about my married baptist pastor? or any paster for that matter?

Before I start this post: I am quoting statistics from memory and do not have actual data in front of me so my numbers are estimates. Do not jump all over me for non-exact numbers. I also am in no way exusing those priests who have committed these crimes.


Most of the news reports are of old incidents and most (80% or so) are homosexual in nature. You are right about sexual abuse in other faith traditions not being reported on. Incidents of this nature are about the same among all clergy of all faiths (1%-3%). In the general population it is much higher (12%-15%). There have been reports of high levels of abuse in the public school system which the press absolutely refuses to report on.
The Catholic Church is much more organized financially than most other churches and this makes them an appealing target for litigation. Most of the cases involved huge monetary awards, of which lawyers usually get one-third.

Celebicy has nothing to do with it. I think these men knew that as a priest they would have easy access to children and teens. Sadly they were not removed from their ministry . In defense of some bishops I should say that many doctors declared these men "cured" and these reports were used by bishops to return the priest to a ministry. I wonder why no one holds these doctors responsible? The bishops, of course, should not have given any credence to these reports , but that was the thinking of the time.

There is no "celebicy police" so if a priest wants to do something with an adult he can. He shouldn't and hopefully most priests who take a vow of celibicy (not all do) will not break their vow, but there really is nothing stopping him. So this idea that they are forced to act out with kids is just ridiculous.

Also remember that the press jumped all over every allegation, substantiated or not. Many were true and some can never be proven, its a "he said yes and someone else said no and someone else said something else" situation. That said, the press definetly has it in for the Church. The Catholic Church is the largest Church in this country and in the world. It teaches moral behavior which the press cannot stand. It cannot change its teachings on homosexual acts, abortion, sex outside of marriage, birth control ect.. The fact that the Church expects celebicy of most priests, homosexuals and unmarried people drives the secular press crazy.

 

[Iollain]

I just wish God would take a big stick and splatter their guts about 200 miles.

 

[SumTinWong]

I just wish God would take a big stick and splatter their guts about 200 miles.

I understand the sentiment, as none of us want to see a child harmed in anyway, but I honestly hope that the good Lord, becomes a vital part of their lives and that they are freed from this sin, and become examples of what God can do.

 

[Freckles1234]

Now being a Canadian i will have to correct you, the correct writing of ey, is EH, ok eh? hehe

I also feel that you had to correct Nehemiah_Center with the correct spelling of the word eh, eh?

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

This may get delted, i am not sure its appropriate, and i respect that if it is that it will get pulled.

But i wanted to share a thought I have and see what other christians think.

I was watching an "investigative reports" about a catholic priest who moslested boys over many years.

And i have always had some thoughts about the phenomonon of this happening so much.

The bible states if you burn with passion it is better to marry, and that when you are married not to deprive your spouse sexual relations, because we are weak and we will be tempted and our lusts could carry us away, (totally paraphrasing several sets of scripture as one idea here, forgive me)


I theorize that, celebacy is in some cases, more than a priest can handle, but its really hammered that they sex/wife is totaly unattainable for them.

That, the natural desires God gave them, being supressed, allows a distortion in that part of their phsyche whether by satans influence or just their mind trying to find an alternateive, and it leads them into being abusers.


I mean, for it to happen so much, and you dont see nearly as many cases of abuse like this among denomonations that allow for their pastor/ head of the church to be married.


Its just a theory of course, I could be very wrong, but it, to me makes some sense.

What does anyone else think on the subject?

another verse for ya

Gen 2:18 And the Lord God said, it is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a help mate for him

 

[P_G]

I wish to thank the bretheren up north for my lesson in how to speak Canadian!

Now back to your igloos both of you


Blessings

Pastor George

 

[fwarren94551]

I was raised Catholic, went to a Catholic Parochial school, was an Altar Boy, and was harmed by it in other ways, no doubt unintentional. But I knew a LOT of Catholic kids and no molestation happened to any of us that I know of. And it was not a small school. The harm done to children was generally due to bursts of temper by excessive religious zeal by priests and nuns, and was generally more emotional than physical. And stuff like this can just happen as I grew up in a rough neighborhood.

My arguments with Catholicism tend to be more in terms of the doctrine. I do not think the Pope is the anti-Christ but things like excommunication (which strikes me as man pretending to preempt the judgment of God) is over the top. Catholicism lost its grip on the secular world during the Reformation and Counter-Reformation but it has never renounced those goals. I recall the Church in pre-Vatican II days (and I left in pre Vatican II days due to my parents not liking it), and there were lists of forbidden books, movies, music and so on. Catholicism even insists that it alone governs marriage and will not welcome anyone whose has been married or divorced outside of the Church. Interference on that level is what led to the Church Of England in the quest to produce a male heir, and which in turn resulted in later civil war anyway due to the delay and none being present.

I look at the advice of Matthew 7:15-20. A lot of Catholic Morals have produced some very poisonous fruits leading to a great deal of needless war, death and outright slaughter.

I don't want to build a case against Catholicism or rail against it. That is not right; people are entitled to their faith without me impugning it. But the reason I'm in this forum is precisely because I'm not sure I can, in good conscience, go along with Catholic Doctrine.