Clergy who abuse

[Heatherondo]

This may get delted, i am not sure its appropriate, and i respect that if it is that it will get pulled.

But i wanted to share a thought I have and see what other christians think.

I was watching an "investigative reports" about a catholic priest who moslested boys over many years.

And i have always had some thoughts about the phenomonon of this happening so much.

The bible states if you burn with passion it is better to marry, and that when you are married not to deprive your spouse sexual relations, because we are weak and we will be tempted and our lusts could carry us away, (totally paraphrasing several sets of scripture as one idea here, forgive me)


I theorize that, celebacy is in some cases, more than a priest can handle, but its really hammered that they sex/wife is totaly unattainable for them.

That, the natural desires God gave them, being supressed, allows a distortion in that part of their phsyche whether by satans influence or just their mind trying to find an alternateive, and it leads them into being abusers.


I mean, for it to happen so much, and you dont see nearly as many cases of abuse like this among denomonations that allow for their pastor/ head of the church to be married.


Its just a theory of course, I could be very wrong, but it, to me makes some sense.

What does anyone else think on the subject?

 

[d0c markus]

I think the ability to be celibate is a gift from God (1 Cor 7:7), thats why Paul says it is better to marry than to burn with passion. If God has given us this gift then natrually it should be no problem.

However 1 Tim 3:1 states that if anyone desires to be an overseer he desires a noble task. The Roman Catholic system of celibacy (though its a choice the preist made happily) is bad in this respect. Because if God issues celibacy out as a gift then not just anyone with the desire to be a priest has this ability. Therefore it's my personal belief that if a priest wants to marry [a christian woman] then let him marry!

Does that make sense to you?

 

[SumTinWong]

What does anyone else think on the subject?

The church I grew up in was a Pentecostal Church. The pastors kids both have been charged with lewd behavior in recent years. One from viewing beastality on the church computer, and the other for forcing himself on female parishoners. Both were married.

Molesting boys has nothing to do with being celebate. It is a sickness, a disease of the mind, that has nothing to do with the normalcy of marriage, and man/woman sexual relations. Normal men do not molest young boys because women are not an option. Normal men have, when the feelings are too strong for them, affairs with women.

So blaming the Catholic Churches celebacy policy on the rapes of these young kids is taking the blame from the real criminal and trying to put it on the shoulders of a church. It is like some people are saying: "I they only let Father Bob have a wife he may not have molested that young alter boy." Sorry Charlie, it does not work that way...

 

[BronxBriar]

So blaming the Catholic Churches celebacy policy on the rapes of these young kids is taking the blame from the real criminal and trying to put it on the shoulders of a church. It is like some people are saying: "I they only let Father Bob have a wife he may not have molested that young alter boy." Sorry Charlie, it does not work that way...

Being a former RC with experience in their seminary system I would tend to agree with you to some extent. The real sin was not dealing with issue when it came up. The shuffling of criminals from one parish to another, just perpetuated the tragedy. The RC church gets credit for airing their dirty laundry but they only did so when it was too late. Many culpable bishops who closed their eyes are still running the show. The example of one diocese declaring bankruptcy to pay off lawsuits is just the beginning. Sadly the RC laity who really have no say in church administration are the ones who are really suffering.

 

[BBAS 64]

Being a former RC with experience in their seminary system I would tend to agree with you to some extent. The real sin was not dealing with issue when it came up. The shuffling of criminals from one parish to another, just perpetuated the tragedy. The RC church gets credit for airing their dirty laundry but they only did so when it was too late. Many culpable bishops who closed their eyes are still running the show. The example of one diocese declaring bankruptcy to pay off lawsuits is just the beginning. Sadly the RC laity who really have no say in church administration are the ones who are really suffering.

Good Day, BroxBriar

I will second that, living though this whole thing here in Boston has really been sad.

Bill

 

[Filia Mariae]

Heather,

You may wish to ask your question in OBOB where you will get a more in depth answer from people who are actually Catholic. You are welcome there.

 

[Heatherondo]

I wasnt so much BLAMING celebacy as saying it maybe encouraged the situation.

Not everyone is meant for celebacy, the fact its addressed in the bible tells me that,

I was just pointing out the repeated denial of natural desires can cause you to act out in an inappropriate manner.

Satan always aims for our weakest spot.... and i would guess the examples the guys with the beastiality and forcing himself on women, is an example of that

 

[GreenEyedLady]

I did not gather from your post Heather, that you were blaming the RCC policy for the sins of the priests.
My uncle went into the seminary as a young man. In the seminary, he learned that he was gay because back in the day, it was a no no to talk about. I am not sure all about what when on in semenary while he was there. But he left because he knew that he could not lead that double life. He lived most of his life as a homosexual male with partners. As he got alot older, he kept himself celebat. I think that he had a strong convicting that his lustful desires were sinful in the eyes of the Lord.
From what my uncle and his friends have told me, many gay men run to the church out of fear in thier sexuality. What they don't know before they get there, is that the gay lifestyle is practiced among some of these seminaries.
I would think that if a gay male was lusting with his desires, he would be more tempted to fall in love with a boy than a man who has a natural lust for woman.
THis is just my point of view of course.
I hope this helps you.
GEL

 

[J.A.I]

Heather - I think you have a point. Not everyone is called to live a life of celibacy as it is a hard one, and if you're not strong in it, it will be easy for the devil to make a playground out of your mind. When I was younger, I attended a church whose youth pastor was a wonderful man. But he is now in jail for child molestation. It isn't just cath priests, it's in all denominations, albeit more rampant in some denominations than others.

I was just pointing out the repeated denial of natural desires can cause you to act out in an inappropriate manner.

I concur

 

[Iollain]

I think that some people are weird that way to begin with and seek a position where they can better use their weirdness (as in getting into leadership where they will be trusted around kids). I heard that the weirdo's in the RCC are only 1% of the priests, probably not any higher than other denomination weirdos. I have an unholy hate for all of these weirdos who hurt kids!! They are wolves in sheeps clothing. You would think that a man who's heart is for God and cares for people would step down if they are starting to turn into a weirdo. (sorry for all the 'weirdo' words, but i can't say what i'd like to)

 

[SumTinWong]

I wasnt so much BLAMING celebacy as saying it maybe encouraged the situation.

I know what you are saying but you are missing the point. Most "normal" people who are breaking free from the vow of celebacy do not molest youngpeople of the same sex. They usually have affairs with the opposite sex.

Not everyone is meant for celebacy, the fact its addressed in the bible tells me that,

It also says that some were called to be celebate:Matthew 19:12 "For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it." As a candidate for the priesthood you know before you enter into it that you must remain celebate to be a priest in the Catholic Church. Right or wrong in our opinion, doesn't matter. It is their rule, and their church.

I was just pointing out the repeated denial of natural desires can cause you to act out in an inappropriate manner.

And obviously you really are wrong again. It isn't as if priests are in an all male prison with only men to choose from. Natural desires do not lead someone to commit un-natural actions such as sodomy of children. Un-natural desires lead people to that.

Satan always aims for our weakest spot.... and i would guess the examples the guys with the beastiality and forcing himself on women, is an example of that

Sure, that is true, but the guy who loked at beastality on the PC was able to do so from home, and the guy who was forcing himself on women could have got action from his own wife, so I don't see the comparison.

 

[newlite]

are prist who molest boys really followers of god?

i just want to know something. why is it on the tv you hear about prists molesting ppl every week once (i dont watch the news much, i guess i was bored that month. i dont know how often but) its always roman catholic leaders? is it more popular with prists? ive never heard of a paster doing it. or is the news just against the catholic faith or something? i heard that a rc prist cant marry. thats why the news said its popular. now im hearing about its just a feeling. marrying would change it. then why havent i heard anything about my married baptist pastor? or any paster for that matter?

 

[SumTinWong]

are prist who molest boys really followers of god?

i just want to know something. why is it on the tv you hear about prists molesting ppl every week once (i dont watch the news much, i guess i was bored that month. i dont know how often but) its always roman catholic leaders? is it more popular with prists? ive never heard of a paster doing it. or is the news just against the catholic faith or something? i heard that a rc prist cant marry. thats why the news said its popular. now im hearing about its just a feeling. marrying would change it. then why havent i heard anything about my married baptist pastor? or any paster for that matter?

My guess it would be because people are coming out of the wood works to report the abuses. For years they kept quiet and are not going to anymore. There have been many notable non-Catholics caught with their pants down, it just seems that the CC is the favorite whipping boy of the moment.

 

[BronxBriar]

My guess it would be because people are coming out of the wood works to report the abuses. For years they kept quiet and are not going to anymore. There have been many notable non-Catholics caught with their pants down, it just seems that the CC is the favorite whipping boy of the moment.

True indeed. Legitimate criticism must be separated from prejudice.

 

[ps139]

The church I grew up in was a Pentecostal Church. The pastors kids both have been charged with lewd behavior in recent years. One from viewing beastality on the church computer, and the other for forcing himself on female parishoners. Both were married.
Molesting boys has nothing to do with being celebate. It is a sickness, a disease of the mind, that has nothing to do with the normalcy of marriage, and man/woman sexual relations. Normal men do not molest young boys because women are not an option. Normal men have, when the feelings are too strong for them, affairs with women.
So blaming the Catholic Churches celebacy policy on the rapes of these young kids is taking the blame from the real criminal and trying to put it on the shoulders of a church. It is like some people are saying: "I they only let Father Bob have a wife he may not have molested that young alter boy." Sorry Charlie, it does not work that way...

From what my uncle and his friends have told me, many gay men run to the church out of fear in thier sexuality. What they don't know before they get there, is that the gay lifestyle is practiced among some of these seminaries.

That is the problem. The last 30 or 40 years have seen liberalization of some Catholic seminaries, especially in America. To the point where the psychological entrance tests were conducted by secular (some not even Chritian) psychologists rather than Catholic psychologists. And of course you know that those 2 people will have different ideas on what is acceptable and what is not. Lollard is right - the disorder of the mind here is not addressed. Its treated by secular psychologists who have this idea that anything is ok and morality is relative. Its really, really sickening. There is a book out called "Goodbye, Good Men" which chronicles this. It might make you nauseous to read but it is the truth of what happened. Thank God that Catholicism in America is experiencing a massive return to conservatism and orthodoxy. Hopefully in 20 years we will see a better, healthier Catholic presence in America.

 

[ps139]

it just seems that the CC is the favorite whipping boy of the moment.

Thats true. When it comes to religion, the media HATES 2 groups, Catholics and conservative P/R/E Christians. The Catholic Church has become the wipping boy because it is a unified body. With conservative Christians, there are different denominations, many happen to be completely independent of each other, and if there is a scandal at an independent congregation, thats as far as the scandal goes. But find a Catholic scandal, and you can blame the entire institution. The Catholic Church is just an easier target because of its size. Also, as someone said, the percentage of priests who molested boys is very very low, around 1%. But one percent of a few million is a big number. Picking on the CC makes for a better news story.

 

[SumTinWong]

Hopefully in 20 years we will see a better, healthier Catholic presence in America.

I have no doubt that this will happen, and the country and the state of the body of Christ will be better for it.

On a side note: This does speak to the question that some have posed about Pastors/Priests being run through a database for sexual offenders. For instance I am not sure that many lay people are tested for past crimes and what not. Should the pastors be tested by ike ps139 was saying, to at least lessen the risk of abuses? I think it would be a great move, but what do you all think?

Perhaps there are and I don't know of any. Any seminary students or pastors/priests with experience in this matter?

 

[SumTinWong]

Thats true. When it comes to religion, the media HATES 2 groups, Catholics and conservative P/R/E Christians. The Catholic Church has become the wipping boy because it is a unified body. With conservative Christians, there are different denominations, many happen to be completely independent of each other, and if there is a scandal at an independent congregation, thats as far as the scandal goes. But find a Catholic scandal, and you can blame the entire institution. The Catholic Church is just an easier target because of its size. Also, as someone said, the percentage of priests who molested boys is very very low, around 1%. But one percent of a few million is a big number. Picking on the CC makes for a better news story.

Also I think the Passion of the Christ stirred many people to look into the CC and when that happened, the church became the latest target by those who wish to slam what they hate. If you remember before this it was faith healers like Benny Hinn, and before that World News Report, tried to question the Bible and all Christians (I think the title was rethinking Christianity).

As always the truth, good and bad will prevail, but we can have peace in the end because Jesus already over came the world

 

[SumTinWong]

True indeed. Legitimate criticism must be separated from prejudice.

And some of the critisms are vaild, like ps139 said. Some people got through the cracks that might not have if they had been asked the right questions. Now that the CC (and hopefully the P/R/E as well) know better, one can only hope and pray that this will be finally settled.

 

[Freckles1234]

Yes, it is true that it is *only* 1% of the CC that has this happening but even 1% is 1% too many. It is also only 1% of all denominations but as ps139 states it is because the media has a HATE group and at this time it seems to be the RCC's. I know that about 2 years ago here on the west coast of Canada there was a piece in the paper on the front page about a Catholic priest who had molested young girls and when it was investigated further they found that it was not an RC priest but an Anglican priest and when they printed in the news what the sentence was it was nowhere to be seen on the front page, by this time knowing that the man was a protestant and married with youngsters of his own, it was buried in the middle of the second section. Where the news at first was headline news was now just a blurb in the middle of a lot of other things that were just short blurbs.