Clean and unclean meat

[Aibrean]

If you follow one Levitical law, you should follow them all.

Romans 7:5-6
For when we were controlled by the sinful nature,the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Colossians 2:13-23
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature,God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

 

[k4c]

God's Word/Law doesn't change. But, before Jesus came back we were all spiritually dead due to our sinful nature i.e. we would NEVER be in the presence of God. As a consequence, all law and holiness transferred to where it mattered: 3-D/physical plane of existence. So, physically we practice holiness through a series of events (practicing sabbath, eating clean meat, sexual & marriage laws, etc.)

Enter Yeshua. He defeats sin, and opens the opportunity for humans to be spiritually filled. He was perfect physically, and He mastered spiritual holiness. Now, since that window is open, the physical practices upgrade to spiritual & physical (God's Law never changes.)

For example, thinking about lust = adultery, but physical adultery is still unlawful. Or, Yeshua is our sabbath (spiritually,) but we are to still honor the physical sabbath.

We are to be clean spiritually, and clean physically...so we are to still eat only clean meat.

Amen...

Under the old covenant our holiness was outward, under the new covenant our holiness is both inward and ouward.

 

[k4c]

If you follow one Levitical law, you should follow them all.

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles that a man has his father's wife!

Where did this sin come from because there is nothing in the NT that says I can not have sex with my father's wife.

Leviticus 18:8 The nakedness of your father's wife you shall not uncover; it is your father's nakedness.

Since the standard set in Leviticus has been done away with I guess having sex with my father's with is good to go now.

What if, while I'm married, I have sex with a girl that I met in a bar but while I'm having sex with her I'm thinking of my wife, is that still a sin?

Just because God raises the standard by saying lusting after a woman is just as bad as having sex with her does not nullify the act of having physical sex with her otherwise as long as I'm thinking of my wife while have sex with another woman I'm good to go. This is sort of like the Bill Clinton doctrine of what sex is.

God is looking for a people who will be holy inward and outward.

 

[StormyOne]

God is everywhere... that is what Omnipresence means.... as such we are always in his presence whether we choose to believe it or not... The ancients did not grasp this basic truth and as such talked about having to be a certain way to be in God's presence.... we should have acknowledged by now that they were wrong....

 

[Korewanandesuka]

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[Korewanandesuka]

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[StormyOne]

The only humans that were in the presence of God on this earth were Adam, Eve, and Yeshua. Adam and Eve were in His presence for the short time before they sinned.

We are in His presence because CREATION is God's body, like our flesh and bones are our bodies. So, all those in Sheol, the true hell, and in between (i.e. all things) are HIS BODY.

But, there is a difference between, say the hairs on my head being in my presence because they are on my body and me revealing my existence and spirit to the hairs on my head.

God is not, and cannot show His spirit (who He is) to us because it is perfectly holy. And frankly, I don't blame him. We sinned and chose to transgress: how dare we be so arrogant as to ask him to show himself to us after we have offended him?

But alas, God loves us and gives us grace. He even died for us as a human (Yeshua) so that we could once again get that chance to be in His presence.

EDIT: The only humans that were on this earth that were in the presence of God for long times (days to years) were Adam, Eve, and Yeshua.

God loved us enough to save us, he told us to call him father, and he said that he would be with us always, even to the end of the world.... Your analogy of hair on your head and you is not applicable because your hair is not self-aware, more importantly, you do not give your hair life...btw your second sentence contradicts your first one, either we are in God's presence or we aren't. What you have suggested is contrary to the actions of a good father.... so while I understand the view, I do not share it..... In fact God shows himself much more than we choose to realize.... Again, omnipresence means just that.... he is present everywhere...

 

[Byfaithalone1]

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles that a man has his father's wife!

Where did this sin come from because there is nothing in the NT that says I can not have sex with my father's wife.

Leviticus 18:8 The nakedness of your father's wife you shall not uncover; it is your father's nakedness.

Since the standard set in Leviticus has been done away with I guess having sex with my father's with is good to go now.

K4C, is it possible that you have somehow missed the importance of the role of the Spirit? Are you aware that the Spirit conficts men with respect to sin and righteousness and judgment?

What if, while I'm married, I have sex with a girl that I met in a bar but while I'm having sex with her I'm thinking of my wife, is that still a sin?

Is this what you desire to do?

Is this what the Spirit is convicting you to do?

Just because God raises the standard by saying lusting after a woman is just as bad as having sex with her does not nullify the act of having physical sex with her otherwise as long as I'm thinking of my wife while have sex with another woman I'm good to go.

The law was added 430 years after Abraham. Before it was added, was God pleased by adultery or fornication? Why did Joseph abstain from the advances from Potiphar's wife? We certainly couldn't make a case that he abstained because the law told him he shouldn't do it. After all, the law had not yet been added.

Sin exists even in the absence of law. It existed before the law was added and it has existed since the Seed came.

God is looking for a people who will be holy inward and outward.

Did He find that in the children of Israel. Is He finding it in people alive today? Is this truly what He wants.


Does God really want me or is He primarily interested in my good deeds?

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Matt. 5:7 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

"Old" Law (capital L) still stands. We do not the traditions of men that Yeshua spoke out against (law, lowercase "l" e.g. not using electricity on the sabbath because it means work.)

It's not just "Levitical law," it is God's Law. He doesn't change his mind like we change our minds. If he says "Do not eat this animal, and that animal," He means it forever.

Does this include God-given commands relating to animal sacrifices?

BFA

 

[k4c]

K4C, is it possible that you have somehow missed the importance of the role of the Spirit? Are you aware that the Spirit conficts men with respect to sin and righteousness and judgment?

Is this what you desire to do?

Is this what the Spirit is convicting you to do?

The law was added 430 years after Abraham. Before it was added, was God pleased by adultery or fornication? Why did Joseph abstain from the advances from Potiphar's wife? We certainly couldn't make a case that he abstained because the law told him he shouldn't do it. After all, the law had not yet been added.

Sin exists even in the absence of law. It existed before the law was added and it has existed since the Seed came.


Did He find that in the children of Israel. Is He finding it in people alive today? Is this truly what He wants.


Does God really want me or is He primarily interested in my good deeds?

BFA

Here is the new covenant promise.

Ezekiel 36:26-27 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

 

[k4c]

Does this include God-given commands relating to animal sacrifices?

BFA

Jesus is our sacrifice, this was a prophecy all throughout the OT.

Hebrews 9:11-12 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

Hebrews 7:27 who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people's, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.

Hebrews 10:10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

The death of Jesus does not allow me to lie, steal, eat unclean meat, get drunk and so on and the Spirit will make sure of that.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Here is the new covenant promise.

Ezekiel 36:26-27 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

Hebrews 8 adds that the new covenant will not be like the old.

Jesus is our sacrifice, this was a prophecy all throughout the OT.

If laws relating to animals sacrifices have been fulfilled, should we also include that jots and tittles have passed? Can any jot or tittle pass until all have been fulfilled?


BFA

 

[k4c]

Hebrews 8 adds that the new covenant will not be like the old.


If laws relating to animals sacrifices have been fulfilled, should we also include that jots and tittles have passed? Can any jot or tittle pass until all have been fulfilled?

BFA

The old is not like the new in that the old was do or die and the new is Jesus did now we do.

1 John 2:6 If a person claims that God lives in him, then he ought to live as Jesus lived.

If Jesus didn't keep the Law then He would have sinned and became unfit to be our sacrifice. We are to walk as He walked.

Something fulfilled as a prearrainged plan does not nullify everything. Christ was the Lamb without spot before the foundation of the world. He was the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Something fulfilled as a prearrainged plan does not nullify everything.

Matthew 5 tells us that not one jot or tittle will pass until all is fulfilled. If a jot or tittle has passed, all has been fulfilled.

BFA

 

[k4c]

Matthew 5 tells us that not one jot or tittle will pass until all is fulfilled. If a jot or tittle has passed, all has been fulfilled.

BFA

Are you building your whole case on this?

If you are than you need to explain because this verse is loaded with what if's and what abouts.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Are you building your whole case on this?

If you are than you need to explain because this verse is loaded with what if's and what abouts.

I'm not building a case. You believe what you believe. I have no influence whatsoever on what you believe, nor do I want such an influence. It is the Spirit that convicts. I play absolutely no role in conviction.

However, if we are having a friendly discussion, I would be interested in 2-way dialogue. After all, I've raised the point several times and I'm interested in your take on it.

BFA

 

[k4c]

I'm not building a case. You believe what you believe. I have no influence whatsoever on what you believe, nor do I want such an influence. It is the Spirit that convicts. I play absolutely no role in conviction.

However, if we are having a friendly discussion, I would be interested in 2-way dialogue. After all, I've raised the point several times and I'm interested in your take on it.

BFA

This reply is an avoidance of the truth.

 

[k4c]

Matthew 5 tells us that not one jot or tittle will pass until all is fulfilled. If a jot or tittle has passed, all has been fulfilled.

BFA

You see, no jot or tittle has passed nor has heaven and earth.

Matthew 5:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

This reply is an avoidance of the truth.

That seems rather harsh, K4C. I don't want our discussion to head south. I will bow out and hope that a little time away will allow us to proceed with a lighter and friendlier tone.

You see, no jot or tittle has passed nor has heaven and earth.

If this is the case, then it seems that I should contemplate whether it is incumbent upon me to keep all of God's holy convocations as listed in Leviticus 23.

BFA

 

[k4c]

That seems rather harsh, K4C. I don't want our discussion to head south. I will bow out and hope that a little time away will allow us to proceed with a lighter and friendlier tone.

If this is the case, then it seems that I should contemplate whether it is incumbent upon me to keep all of God's holy convocations as listed in Leviticus 23.

BFA

There is a difference between fulfilled and canclled out.

And don't take what I said as being harsh it's just a statement in response to your avoidance to respond to my questions with answers rather than with more questions.

Now take this... and this...