Clean and unclean meat

[k4c]

It is easier to believe that somehow Satan experimented with animals and made dinosaurs that it is to believe simply that God also created dinosaurs? Interesting...

I don't believe Satan has power to create life. But there is one thing I've always wondered and that is, what was going on outside of the garden of Eden? The Bible tells us that Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden and an angel with a flaming sword was place to guard the entrance so they couldn't get back in. I wonder what kind of world was existing outside of the garden?

 

[Cribstyl]

I came to my conclusion through reading the Bible, not commentaries. If God calls something unclean it's not rocket science.

Well since it's not rocket science why cant you admit what the scripture proves.

1. We agree that God originally commanded man to eat vegetables. The scriptures proves as follows
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
2. God told man to eat all living creatures. The scriptures proves as follow;
Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
3. God restricted the COI to eat only clean meats. Lev11, and Deu 14:3-8. The key word is "shall", it means "you will" so the COI were bound by law to eat only clean meats.
Lev 11:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These [are] the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that [are] on the earth.

4.After Jesus died came the fulness of time when Gentiles were invited into the church. The Gentile are never told about meat restrictions. The subject is a key discussion because they're told not to eat meat rare (with blood) or to eat meats that were first sacrificed to idols.

Peter's dream is a key revelation to teach us, that what was formerly common or unclean was no longer a binding commandment on the church. What was formerly unlawful was being accepted through the revelation of the Holy Spirit. Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.


Act 10:15 And the voice [spake] unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, [that] call not thou common.

6. The Jerusalem council and the Holy Spirit issued an epistle which started Paul's second missionary journey. The decree stated that Gentile who join the church should abstain from meat with blood and meats sacrificed to idols.



Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:


Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood.

So the truth to teach should be according to all these lessons taught clearly rather than quoting food laws and restrictions to people.

Here are more texts rather than commentaries that teach other doctrines.

Mat 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean.


Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.


Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed [are] pure; but [it is] evil for that man who eateth with offence.


1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God [is] good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:


1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.


Tts 1:15 Unto the pure all things [are] pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving [is] nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.


Hbr 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For [it is] a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

Truth is, we can recommend healthy food choices to people, but using the pulpit for other doctrines than Jesus Christ was cricified for sins of the world. There is one gospel.

 

[Avonia]

Well since it's not rocket science why cant you admit what the scripture proves.

I suspect the issue is not whether K4C is willing to admit anything. The insight is found in knowing how the belief serves K4C.

If we understood this, we wouldn't have 1,000-post threads on many issues - like Sabbath - debating whether the Bible says "yes" or "no."

 

[Restin]

Well since it's not rocket science why cant you admit what the scripture proves.

1. We agree that God originally commanded man to eat vegetables....

Here are more texts rather than commentaries that teach other doctrines.

Mat 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean.

Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed [are] pure; but [it is] evil for that man who eateth with offence.

1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God [is] good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Tts 1:15 Unto the pure all things [are] pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving [is] nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

Hbr 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For [it is] a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

Truth is, we can recommend healthy food choices to people, but using the pulpit or word of God to form doctrines undermines the gospel that should be preached.

Crib...thanks for the verses, good to contemplate!

God gave the clean and the unclean meats to illustrate a spiritual lesson. Question is, do we see the spiritual nature of why God gave these lessons.

Jesus words in...

John 6:53-56

53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. KJV

 

[Cribstyl]

I suspect the issue is not whether K4C is willing to admit anything. The insight is found in knowing how the belief serves K4C.

If we understood this, we wouldn't have 1,000-post threads on many issues - like Sabbath - debating whether the Bible says "yes" or "no."

Thanks Avonia, I posted the scriptures relative to the subject. K4C said, "...If God calls something unclean it's not rocket science."
It appears to me that K4c is allowing his logic to establish his understanding while trying to reenforce commentary instead of the scriptures that he posted in his OP teach.

When the Holy Spirit told Peter;What God hath cleansed,... [that] call not thou common. ... it was a prophetic word to Peter, that circumcision and uncircumcision was no longer a law for him to continue.

It's up to K4c to accept or reject what has been presented from reading the bible. I posted from the bible what God commanded on the subject in question. My commentary is on the scriptures, not an agenda to reenforce commentaries over the scriptures.
If K4c or you have other text to consider, please post it, so we can fit it in the order that God commanded it.

Let God's word be true

In peace

 

[StormyOne]

I don't believe Satan has power to create life. But there is one thing I've always wondered and that is, what was going on outside of the garden of Eden? The Bible tells us that Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden and an angel with a flaming sword was place to guard the entrance so they couldn't get back in. I wonder what kind of world was existing outside of the garden?

I do not believe that Satan created anything or was allowed to tamper... It is my belief that God created the dinosaurs...just as he created everything else...

 

[Cribstyl]

Crib...thanks for the verses, good to contemplate!

God gave the clean and the unclean meats to illustrate a spiritual lesson. Question is, do we see the spiritual nature of why God gave these lessons.

Jesus words in...

Lev 11:43 Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby.


Lev 20:25 Ye shall therefore put difference between clean beasts and unclean, and between unclean fowls and clean: and ye shall not make your souls abominable by beast, or by fowl, or by any manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean.





Eze 4:14 Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! behold, my soul hath not been polluted: for from my youth up even till now have I not eaten of that which dieth of itself, or is torn in pieces; neither came there abominable flesh into my mouth.

Thanks for the question,
Apparently God had declared it an abomination that pollutes the soul of the COI to eat of the animals He listed that they shall not eat. Leviticus 11 and other places. The one who eats of it would be classified as unclean. The penalty breaking any of those commandment was death.


What is written about the fulfillment of these and other commandments, proves that meat restrictions were never binding on other nations, and especially going forward to the Gentiles Christians


Act 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.


Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.


Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.


Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean.


1Cr 10:28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth [is] the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I came to my conclusion through reading the Bible, not commentaries. If God calls something unclean it's not rocket science.

Is it rocket science if God declares all foods clean?

BFA

 

[k4c]

Is it rocket science if God declares all foods clean?

BFA

Did you read my original post?

There is a difference between Koinos and Akathartos. Our translations use the word, unclean for both, which is where the confusion comes. One is unclean due to the conscience and the other is unclean due a commandment of God.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Did you read my original post?

There is a difference between Koinos and Akathartos. Our translations use the word, unclean for both, which is where the confusion comes. One is unclean due to the conscience and the other is unclean due a commandment of God.

I suppose my question is more of a philosophical one, and perhaps it is merely a question I am asking myself as I think out loud.

Does God have the authority to declare all foods clean irrespective of conscience or commandment?

BFA

 

[StormyOne]

I suppose my question is more of a philosophical one, and perhaps it is merely a question I am asking myself as I think out loud.

Does God have the authority to declare all foods clean irrespective of conscience or commandment?

BFA

again BFA, these types of discussions for me go back to one premise, just because someone said that "God said it" does not mean that he did indeed say it... Additionally to lift the dietary guidelines in Leviticus from their context and culture and attempt to apply those guidelines here and now I find more amusing every day.... We don't attempt to apply the dress code of that time, nor the worship guidelines, but when it comes to eating we want to make sure we are doing "God's will." I really don't understand it...

 

[Byfaithalone1]

to lift the dietary guidelines in Leviticus from their context and culture and attempt to apply those guidelines here and now I find more amusing every day.... We don't attempt to apply the dress code of that time, nor the worship guidelines, but when it comes to eating we want to make sure we are doing "God's will." I really don't understand it...

I hear you.

BFA

 

[Korewanandesuka]

.

 

[Restin]

Lev 20:25 Ye shall therefore put difference between clean beasts and unclean, and between unclean fowls and clean: and ye shall not make your souls abominable by beast, or by fowl, or by any manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean.


Apparently God had declared it an abomination that pollutes the soul of the COI to eat of the animals He listed that they shall not eat. Leviticus 11 and other places. The one who eats of it would be classified as unclean. The penalty breaking any of those commandment was death.

The creeping things and beast have similar characteristics to certain types of human behavior...

2 Timothy 3:2-7

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. KJV

Then there is the 'beast'...

Psalms 49:20

20 Man that is in honour, and understandeth not,
is like the beasts that perish. KJV

So, in talking about eating the 'clean' and avoiding the 'unclean' ....the clean would be partaking of 'heavenly things' and the unclean is the partaking or 'earthly things'!

 

[StormyOne]

Please do not misunderstand me. I believe God created everything.

However, do you think that God's will was to make a superfluous amount of very large and ferocious carnivorous reptiles that could and most likely would try to destroy His creation (us et al.)? If dinosaurs were part of God's plan, he would have allowed them to roam the earth.

Humans make computers, houses, mix breeds of animals, etc. This doesn't make us G-d, no matter how much we think it does, because EVERYTHING must be approved by G-d.

And, since CREATION is G-d's BODY, then nothing happens unless he allows it/makes it happen.

Yes I do... If you believe that God created lions, tigers, bears, sharks, snakes, then why would it be difficult to believe that he created dinosaurs? Lions, tigers, bears, kill humans all the time, what's the difference? As far as I can tell dinosaurs did roam the earth, since they are finding bones on every continent...

 

[Cribstyl]

The creeping things and beast have similar characteristics to certain types of human behavior...

Then there is the 'beast'...

So, in talking about eating the 'clean' and avoiding the 'unclean' ....the clean would be partaking of 'heavenly things' and the unclean is the partaking or 'earthly things'!

 

[Korewanandesuka]

.

 

[k4c]

Did anyone read my original post?

There is a difference between Koinos and Akathartos. Our translations use the word, unclean for both, which is where the confusion comes. One is unclean due to the conscience and the other is unclean due a commandment of God.

Romans 14:14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

This word (unclean) in the above verse is the word Koinos which refers to an issue of the conscience, not a commandment of God. This is why it says to him who considers something to be unclean, it's unclean. This is because it's a conscience issue not a commandent issue. An example of this would be eating meat sacrificed to an idol. We know the idol is nothing so the meat is not unclean unless your conscience is troubled by it. The word Akathartos refers to something being unclean as commanded by God and is not open to popular opinion.

 

[StormyOne]

Ok. Then your mind is made up. Nothing I will say will resonate with you.

LOL... and the same can be said of you my friend... thank you for the respectful exchange.....

 

[Korewanandesuka]

.