Softspoken said:
Belief is necessary. It was required to GET to earth in the first place. You have either forgotten, or were not aware of that detail. It took faith in Christ just to have the privilege of mortality. Those who kept their first estate (in the pre-mortal life with God) through faith in the promised Savior were added upon with the blessing of mortality (and promised deliverane from death and hell through the atonement of the Savior). Those who keep their second estate (mortality) through faith in the slain and resurrected Savior and obedience to his gospel will be joint-heirs with him of all that the Father has. That's our doctrine. In a way it's universal, yes, but not how you've presented it. At least not in my mind.
Okay...this is hugely helpful. I was not aware of this aspect--that the doctrine of premortal existence includes the teaching that all spirits who receive bodies in this mortal existence have professed faith in Jesus beforehand. Do I understand this correctly? Adolf Hitler, Idi Amin, the BTK killer, etc. had, in the premortal existence, professed faith in Christ?
There are so many subjects being discussed in this thread. . . I hope that you don't mind going back to this one.
I had not heard before either that LDS teach that all spirits who receive bodies in this mortal existence
professed faith in Christ beforehand. I had read that they agreed to the plan that Christ offered, rather than that they had faith in him. Can you provide or point me to any references that speak of this as having faith in Christ, rather than agreeing to his plan?
Here is the passage of LDS scripture that discussed this:
Abraham 3
24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;
25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;
26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.
27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.
28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him.
And here are several references to this that I found:
What do the terms first estate and second estate mean in Abraham 3:26? (First estate refers to the premortal life, and second estate refers to our mortal life. We kept our first estate by choosing to follow Jesus Christ instead of Lucifer.)
Lesson 2: Thou Wast Chosen Before Thou Wast Born, Old Testament Gospel Doctrine Teachers Manual, 5
After hearing both sons speak, Heavenly Father said, I will send the first (Abraham 3:27).
Jesus Christ was chosen and foreordained to be our Savior. Many scriptures tell about this (see, for example, 1 Peter 1:1920; Moses 4:12). One scripture tells us that long before Jesus was born, He appeared to a Book of Mormon prophet known as the brother of Jared and said: Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ.
In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name (Ether 3:14).
When Jesus lived on earth, He taught: I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day (John 6:38, 40).
Chapter 3: Jesus Christ, Our Chosen Leader and Savior, Gospel Principles, (2009),1316
(Well, it looks like I answered my own question, but I will post this anyways as it raises another question.)
The Council in Heaven. References in the revelations give evidence that a Grand Council was convened during our premortal life. All of Heavenly Fathers spiritual children were there. The purpose of the council was to prepare us for our earthly experiences. We were taught all that we would need to know to return to Heavenly Fathers presence one day. We did indeed receive [our] first lessons in the world of spirits and were prepared to come forth in the due time of the Lord. 14
After the plan of salvation was presented for a sustaining vote, Heavenly Father inquired as to whom He should send to put the plan into effect in mortality. Satan responded with an alteration of the plan, a version conceived with an evil intent. He said: I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost
; wherefore give me thine honor. 15 Satans plan would indeed destroy the agency of man. 16 Selfish and senseless, his plan defied eternal law. It was an impossible plan, for without moral agency no one could become exalted. Today he continues to activate parts of his evil plan, appealing to the carnal tendencies of man through temptations. If we are not aware, we may find ourselves being lured by Satans temptations, and if we follow his plan we will become like him. 17
After Satan presented his evil version of the Fathers plan, the Savior responded to Heavenly Father: Here am I, send me. 18 He added: Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever. 19 In those few humble words, the Savior, exercising His moral agency, accepted the sacred assignment as the atoning sacrifice; in this role He would suffer sorely for our sins. We, too, exercised our moral agency in the premortal council. We sustained Heavenly Fathers plan with its laws, ordinances, and covenants. We also sustained Jesus Christ as our Savior, who was, indeed, foreordained. 20
Creation. Abraham records that the premortal Jesus Christ directed, We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell. 21 It was determined that this earth would be a place of probation. 22
One of the purposes of the probation was stated by the Savior: We will prove them
to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them. 23 This means that in mortality our natural man tendencies must be brought into subjection by the spiritual man through our moral agency. With our mortal bodies, we have the power of procreation in this life. We have the choice and capacity to control our physical desire, or to have it control us. This is one of the most important challenges we face in using our moral agency. Unrighteous use of the procreative power carries with it the most condemning consequences, but if we use it righteously, we have potential to receive a fulness of joy. 24
L. Lionel Kendrick, Our Moral Agency, Ensign, Mar 1996, 28
If LDS teach that all who received mortal bodies already had faith in Christ, then is it correct to assume that from the LDS point of view that this mortal probation is a time of testing of that faith, and therefore there is less of an emphasis on faith and more emphasis on doing?
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