Clapping During Song

[jmacvols]

Yes I believe both men and women should dress approprately, shamefacedness applies to both.

I wear a shirt with a collar, tie, slacks, belt, {sometimes suspenders} socks and shoes....dresses head to toe so to speak.

 

[HisLittleHazelnut]

The bible says the disciples came together upon the first day of the week. If we are to follow their example, then we too are to come together upon the first day of the week.

Yes... the bible also says that at least the apostles continued to meet in the Jewish synagogues, so I imagine that we would have to meet on Friday evenings with the Jews as well to keep up with your point. (Which my fiance does both, by the way.)

 

[HisLittleHazelnut]

I wear a shirt with a collar, tie, slacks, belt, {sometimes suspenders} socks and shoes....dresses head to toe so to speak.

By the way suspenders are really sexy so you might want to leave off the suspenders...

My point is... no matter how you dress, somebody will lust.

I could wear a burqua and my fiance would STILL be quite attracted to me.... especially if I was wearing a burqua. What's wrong? I'm clothed head to toe.

There are some guidelines as to what is revealing and what is not. If in doubt of an outfit, look at what most of the people in the church you attend wear. It would be just as wrong for me to come in wearing a burqua as it would for me to come in wearing a miniskirt.

 

[jmacvols]

Yes... the bible also says that at least the apostles continued to meet in the Jewish synagogues, so I imagine that we would have to meet on Friday evenings with the Jews as well to keep up with your point. (Which my fiance does both, by the way.)

It's not the place to meet that matters, [whether a building, tent or shade tree,] but the time, first day of the week.

 

[HisLittleHazelnut]

It's not the place to meet that matters, [whether a building, tent or shade tree,] but the time, first day of the week.

You're missing my point.

The Jews met in the synagogues in on a day other than the first day of the week. The apostles continued to meet with them. They also met with the Christians on the first day of the week. Thus, if we were to truly obey what is inferred, we would be doing both.

 

[jmacvols]

By the way suspenders are really sexy so you might want to leave off the suspenders...

My point is... no matter how you dress, somebody will lust.

It's not my fault I'm such a "hunk" but it's a burden I have to bear.
BUt really, if I am dressed appropriately, then I am not to blame for others sin.

I could wear a burqua and my fiance would STILL be quite attracted to me.... especially if I was wearing a burqua. What's wrong? I'm clothed head to toe.

There are some guidelines as to what is revealing and what is not. If in doubt of an outfit, look at what most of the people in the church you attend wear. It would be just as wrong for me to come in wearing a burqua as it would for me to come in wearing a miniskirt.

As long as you dress in a non-revealing way, you're OK, if others lust after you that's their problem, not yours.

 

[jmacvols]

You're missing my point.

The Jews met in the synagogues in on a day other than the first day of the week. The apostles continued to meet with them. They also met with the Christians on the first day of the week. Thus, if we were to truly obey what is inferred, we would be doing both.

Exactly where in the bible does it say the apostles met in synagogues for worship? I know that when Paul visited a new city, he would seek out the synagogue, not to worship with them but to debate the gospel with them.

 

[jmacvols]

You're missing my point.

The Jews met in the synagogues in on a day other than the first day of the week. The apostles continued to meet with them. They also met with the Christians on the first day of the week. Thus, if we were to truly obey what is inferred, we would be doing both.

Are you saying the apostles, after the church began, continued to meet in synagogues to worship under the OT law? Can you show me this in the bible? I know that Paul, when he visited a new city, he sought out the synagogue to debate scripture with the Jews.

 

[holo]

It's not the place to meet that matters, [whether a building, tent or shade tree,] but the time, first day of the week.

How so? How do you draw from the text that it's the day that the day matters at all, and how do you decide that the place doesn't matter?

 

[holo]

Clapping And singing are not the same thing, ask any child.

And neither is singing and reading.

When God commanded singing, He gives the authority to use aids to carry that command out, hence songbooks are aids. God nowhere said to sing and clap.

Clapping isn't an aid? Can you keep the rhythm perfectly? What about those who can't? Why shouldn't they be allowed to use aids in their singing?

BTW, does God allow you to for example write a poem to His glory? Or would that upset Him, since He didn't specifically ask for that?

The law of inclusion and exclusion is a part of logic which you apparently choose to ignore or only see when it's convenient. Teaching/preaching is a part of worship which included reading the bible. Those in Thessolonica studied the scriptures daily to see if those things were so, could they do this without reading the scriptures? Your "rational" falls short.

I wasn't talking about reading the scriptures, but about reading at the same time as you're singing.

What I underlined above speaks for itself. Jesus used unleaven bread and fruit of the vine yet you think you can change what Jesus instituted. It's all about what holo wants not what the Lord wants.

It's not about what I want. I just disagree with you about what God wants.

Jesus didn't institute bread and wine, He instituted a meal. It is, of course, not outward things like the type of bread that makes the difference.

Paul told the Corinthians not to go above that which is written. That which is written in the bible is "sing", you go above that by trying to add clapping.

And you add to it by adding reading of songbooks. Apparently the "law of inclusion and exclusion" can be applied as you see fit?

Where is it written that I have to memorize every lyric to every song?

Where is it written that you can't keep rhythm when you sing?

The law of inclusion/exclusion is in the bible your denial does not make it go away.

I have never seen mention of such a law in the bible. Common sense, though, applies of course. Also, reading the bible in context, and seeing the greater lines in what the bible says. For example, the bible does give very clear instructions on how to sacrifice animals, but since we read it in context and interpret it with other parts of the bible, it's obvious that those instructions do not apply to us. And by the same rationale it is obvious that God doesn't require you to sing but not clap.

You are apparently are not reading what I posted. Nowhere did I say we are God's employees or that God owns a company.

No, but you used it to illustrate our relationship with Him, which doesn't work, since it's not nearly the same thing. That's all I'm saying.

I gave common, everyday examples of the law of inclusion/exclusion and instead of addressing them

I'm not saying there's no such thing as "the law of inclusion and exclusion", I'm saying that God isn't subject to such a law when dealing with us. You yourself would never treat your own children like that. God compares Himself with earthly parents to give us an idea of how unconditionally He loves and welcomes us, but in your view He seems to be more like a whimsical and weird boss who for no apparent reason demands random things.

What I highlighted above speaks for itself, you have no respect for bible authority, you only do what pleases holo and not God. Can you show us a biblical example of the church meeting on a day other than the first day of the week?

Why should I need an example of that? Can you find an example of the church using electricity? Do you really think it's the week day that actually matters? Why should it matter? Is there a particular reason for it? Is there any particular reason God desires song but not clapping?

My question still stands, though. Why do you think something written in the bible is automatically a rule for you? Or rather, how do you pick out which things are rules for you, and which things don't apply? For example, if you wear clothes of mixed fabrics, how can you defend that when the bible says not to?

THe NT is the law of Christ and if the NT says sing then that's the "law", yet you choose to ignore it anyway.

The NT is not the law of Christ! The NT is a testament. The NT is gospel accounts, letters from Paul and others, and prophecy.

James 1:27.

Exactly, which is not nearly the same as following some rule about singing ro clapping.

THe law of inclusion/excluison exists, you can ignore it when you like but you can't get rid of it.
God is upset when people disobey Him. WHen He said sing and people instead clap-- thats disobedience.

I've never seen or heard about anyone who clapped instead of singing. Not that it would offend God if they did, though.

Again, is there some particular reason God doesn't like clapping?

Again is worship about what God wants or is about what satisfies holo?

What IS worship? If you had a whimsical boss who randomly asked you to to some exercise for no apparent reason, and you did it, would that be worship?

We are under the NT law

There's no such thing as "NT law". The law belongs to the old covenant, and it's found in its entirety there. Jesus also explained it and expunded on it. The old covenant ended on the cross. I am a gentile, I'm righteous, I'm dead with Christ, I'm under grace, I live according to the Spirit, and hence I'm not under the law.

There is only one law given. The NEW covenant, which you and I are in, is NOT based on the law (much less some OTHER law than is described in the OT), but on the blood of Christ.

and when the NT says sing and one claps then he is transgressing the law.

Well, there's the root of your misunderstanding right there. You read the NT as the jews read Moses.

No one is born a sinner, this is a false idea of Calvinism. Eccl 7:29 God made man upright, but man has gone about seeking inventions.

One verse doesn't make a doctrine though. Compare it with the abundance of passages that says we were children of wrath, born as sinners, born "in Adam" and so forth. Sinners are sinners because they are born as sinners. It's their identity. We who are righteous, are righteous because we are BORN righteous - we are born of God.

No verse says such, only Christ by dying on the cross could remove the OT law.

Romans 6:3
Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

The cross didn't remove the law, it removed sinful man. It removed US. Hence, the law has no claim on us, since it only applies to living people.

John said that if you say you have no sin you deceive yourself and truth is not in you, 1 Jn 1:8. You do not understand 1 jn 3:9.

On the contrary, it's you who don't understand that you are a saint. The bible consistently refers to the believer as a saint, as a righteous person. You can't be righteous and sinful at the same time. You can't have two different fathers. You're a son of either God or the devil.

1 Jn 1:8 proves all are sinners, no one is perfectly sinless.

If so, no one will go to heaven.

Again you ignore the bible and will only do what please holo. We are to worship in truth, Gods word is truth so we are to worship by what God said in the bible and all God said was sing.

Where exactly did God say this, anyway?

By the way, is God upset if you help a heroin addict? I mean, since the only religion God approves of is helping widows and orphans? Or are heroin addicts somehow included into "widows and orphans" by the "law of inclusion"?

 

[DerSchweik]

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[bling]

Originally Posted by jmacvols
BUt really, if I am dressed appropriately, then I am not to blame for others sin.

That is the whole point of this side discussion, who determines “appropriate”?
Is this not a time/place/culture thing?

 

[ParsonJefferson]

I attend a church of Christ where singing is acapella. Occasionally, someone will start to clap (usually the teens) and some, but not all, of the congregation will follow.

I was wondering what your thoughts were on this. For me , I feel uncomfortable with clapping during worship; however, I am unable to provide any biblical reasoning for this feeling, this does not mean; however, that it doesn't exist.

So, am I right to feel uncomfortable? Do you think that clapping is a slippery slope?

Thank you, in advance, for your thoughts.

If you feel uncomfortable with clapping, don't clap.

But there's nothing in Scripture that indicates it was either right or wrong. Worship is something Christians have always poured ourselves into. It's NOT a ritual, but an expression. Some are more reserved, and some are more demonstrative, in that expression.

There's nothing wrong with either.

 

[plmarquette]

have you read the list in Psalm 150 ....
clap , stamp your feet, play lyre, harp, shout , jump ....

worship is more 1 on 1 than praise, some times different people react in a different manner, as the Holy Spirit moves... others do not have a clue and some flake out ...

given time and instruction , all will come to the truth of the gospel ...