Circumcision

[Dave-W]

The barbaric practice of cutting off the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] is rightly termed female genital mutilation.

Indeed. "Circumcision" is a gross misrepresentation of the actual practices.

 

[Nithavela]

Not for Jews. It is a mark of the Abrahamic covenant.

Honestly, I don't care what kind of sign for what it is. If a religion had the ritual slitting of newborns left earlobe in it's tennants, I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't support it, as well. And you're not stoning your disobedient children or women who get raped without crying loud enough, so why keep the baby mutilation?

I can tell you why, it is (as I said) to brand the children as a member of your "tribe". All those religious trappings and rituals and prayers are just part of rite of passage and to ensure that the new member of the tribe doesn't get unfaithfull later in life, because he can never go anywhere without his mark showing his allegiance.

Have people get circumcised when they are an adult, if they decide to, for whatever reason.

 

[Owen GB5]

Why do you assume that doctors and nurses are recommending the procedure for religious reasons rather than medical ones?

Is 50% plus of the U.S.A. male population circumcised for medical reasons that most of the rest of the world simply doesn't have?
The percentage of circumcised in Europe is very small and they have very few medical problems that would be remedied by circumcision.

 

[Sketcher]

Is 50% plus of the U.S.A. male population circumcised for medical reasons that most of the rest of the world simply doesn't have?
The percentage of circumcised in Europe is very small and they have very few medical problems that would be remedied by circumcision.

Doesn't mean they're not medical reasons or that the recommendations are religiously motivated. In many cases, it likely following precedent.

 

[Owen GB5]

Their son - their choice. And if you're looking for victims, there are plenty who need to have it done later in life, due to problems which could have been prevented by having it done earlier. If it was such a crime and the loose skin so important, why would God command it as a covenant symbol, and not something else?

'Their son - their choice.' ???????
Is it? Are you sure about this?

 

[Dave-W]

Have people get circumcised when they are an adult, if they decide to, for whatever reason.

So now we are supposed to supersede what God commanded with our own cultural preconceptions?

I don't think so.

 

[Nithavela]

So now we are supposed to supersede what God commanded with our own cultural preconceptions?

I don't think so.

It's what you're doing concerning disobedient children and rape victims, isn't it?

 

[blackribbon]

The screaming and blood filled diapers probably did bother you but you just don't remember and you aren't aware of how much sensitivity and protection you lost when that peice was removed. It actually provides lubricant, protection and increases sensitivity for things like sex.

What blood filled diapers? I am a postpartum nurse and there are no blood filled diapers...at most a tiny dot on the dressing and healed within 24 hours. We use pain meds when it is done and the only time I see the baby really uncomfortable is at diaper change when the fresh skin is exposed to air. Again, for 24 hours.

 

[Owen GB5]

Oh puhleeze. There is no comparison. Male circumcision is no different than cosmetic surgery; it's like having a boob job done, although much less traumatic or dangerous. Female genital mutilation is designed to prevent women from enjoying the natural pleasures of sex -- it butchers the natural function of a body part; it's like having a tongue cut out or a hand chopped off.

Male genital mutilation is also designed to prevent men from enjoying the natural pleasures of sex.

 

[Nithavela]

Male genital mutilation is also designed to prevent men from enjoying the natural pleasures of sex.

Even if it were only "like a boob job", I'm pretty sure most people would object a "boob job" done on infant girls. But maybe that's just me.

 

[Owen GB5]

What blood filled diapers? I am a postpartum nurse and there are no blood filled diapers...at most a tiny dot on the dressing and healed within 24 hours. We use pain meds when it is done and the only time I see the baby really uncomfortable is at diaper change when the fresh skin is exposed to air. Again, for 24 hours.

You may not have seen what happens when it all goes wrong. More than a 100 babies die each year from 'circumcision' complications in the U.S. alone. I survived but with too much damage to ever have a normal sexual experience.

 

[Meowzltov]

Male genital mutilation is also designed to prevent men from enjoying the natural pleasures of sex.

If that's so,it's a miserable failure!

 

[blackribbon]

You may not have seen what happens when it all goes wrong. More than a 100 babies die each year from 'circumcision' complications in the U.S. alone. I survived but with too much damage to ever have a normal sexual experience.

There are many rare and usual complications for every situation in the hospital....so yes, a baby can die from circumcision just like an adult can die from a routine minor surgery. My job is simply to ask a family if they want the circumcision. I wouldn't be surprised if my hospital performs 100 circumcisions a week. If there is any doubt of an abnormality that could complicate the circumcision, it is not done at immediately post birth. I have assisted a doctor with a circumcision while another was going on next to us. It isn't a blood procedure and can be done fairly quickly. All babies get pain meds.

You may have been one of the unlucky ones to have a botched circumcision...and for that, I understand your viewpoint. But I also know a man who finally went in to get one as an adult and was willing pay for elective surgery (not covered by insurance) because sex was just too painful with his wife. The surgeon came out and said that without a doubt, his insurance would cover the surgery because it turned out to be a medical necessity because of all the adhesions that were attributed to his hyper holy mother being too afraid to touch his male parts as a baby and clean him properly. He has suffered all his life not knowing that what he was feeling wasn't normal. So you can have medical issues from not circumcising.

I let my husband make the decision concerning our son. He picked circumcision. I am glad he did because I do have some concerns related to the kind of hygiene care these men will get when they become dependent on others. I also wonder how well a pre-teen/teen boy actually cleans himself. But again, that is not reason enough for circumcision but it did play into my being just fine with that decision.

However, there are no bloody diapers and the vast majority of babies have no issues. In the US, most boys are circumcised.

 

[blackribbon]

If that's so,it's a miserable failure!

My husband was circumcised and had zero problems enjoying the marriage act....

I am curious how anyone would know what the difference really is because you can't compare the sensations related to circumcised as a baby to not circumcised as a baby on the same person.

 

[Owen GB5]

There are many rare and usual complications for every situation in the hospital....so yes, a baby can die from circumcision just like an adult can die from a routine minor surgery. My job is simply to ask a family if they want the circumcision. I wouldn't be surprised if my hospital performs 100 circumcisions a week. If there is any doubt of an abnormality that could complicate the circumcision, it is not done at immediately post birth. I have assisted a doctor with a circumcision while another was going on next to us. It isn't a blood procedure and can be done fairly quickly. All babies get pain meds.

You may have been one of the unlucky ones to have a botched circumcision...and for that, I understand your viewpoint. But I also know a man who finally went in to get one as an adult and was willing pay for elective surgery (not covered by insurance) because sex was just too painful with his wife. The surgeon came out and said that without a doubt, his insurance would cover the surgery because it turned out to be a medical necessity because of all the adhesions that were attributed to his hyper holy mother being too afraid to touch his male parts as a baby and clean him properly. He has suffered all his life not knowing that what he was feeling wasn't normal. So you can have medical issues from not circumcising.

I let my husband make the decision concerning our son. He picked circumcision. I am glad he did because I do have some concerns related to the kind of hygiene care these men will get when they become dependent on others. I also wonder how well a pre-teen/teen boy actually cleans himself. But again, that is not reason enough for circumcision but it did play into my being just fine with that decision.

However, there are no bloody diapers and the vast majority of babies have no issues. In the US, most boys are circumcised.

Thank you for your reply. I still think it curious that males in the U.S. have hygiene problems that simply do not occur in Europe where very few are circumcised.
The surgeon that attributed adhesions to a mother not pulling back the prepuce may not have known that the problem was most likely that the babys' prepuce was pulled back while it was still adhered. It is best left alone to separate naturally.

 

[blackribbon]

Thank you for your reply. I still think it curious that males in the U.S. have hygiene problems that simply do not occur in Europe where very few are circumcised.
The surgeon that attributed adhesions to a mother not pulling back the prepuce may not have known that the problem was most likely that the babys' prepuce was pulled back while it was still adhered. It is best left alone to separate naturally.

The mother was a devote Catholic SPANISH immigrant. He said she never bathed him properly as a baby because it was "dirty" to look and touch his male parts. What he said....his son was circumcised.

I would expect that maybe elder care is better in a society where the men normally know how to care for a uncircumcised male. It is an oddity and not the norm here so someone would have to seek out information on how to care for this properly...and I just don't see the overwhelmed lower trained caregiver staff doing this in most nursing homes.

I really don't think it is that big of a deal either way most of the time. Christians, Jews, and Muslims all opt for circumcision as part of their cultural norms.

It really is a minor procedure. It takes longer to do a hearing screening than most circumcisions. Babies scream louder when we hold their foot tightly to do the the metabolic blood spot screening.

 

[Nithavela]

My husband was circumcised and had zero problems enjoying the marriage act....

I am curious how anyone would know what the difference really is because you can't compare the sensations related to circumcised as a baby to not circumcised as a baby on the same person.

Some people get a circumcision as an adult. Testimonys range from "sex feels better than ever" and "can't tell any difference" to "can't feel anything", with premature [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] and such insensitvity that [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] is next to impossible thrown into the mix.

 

[Nithavela]

Babies scream louder when we hold their foot tightly to do the the metabolic blood spot screening.

Not my experience.

 

[Meowzltov]

You may not have seen what happens when it all goes wrong. More than a 100 babies die each year from 'circumcision' complications in the U.S. alone. I survived but with too much damage to ever have a normal sexual experience.

Owen, first let me say how terribly, terribly sorry I am that you have had to pay such a horrible price for a botched circumcision. Unfortunately in this world, even the best of intentioned things do go wrong. I thought I should marry and have kids and be happy, and my husband and I inadvertently passed on a terrible illness to our kids.

When God first commanded Abraham to circumcise all the males in his encampment, they didn't have modern medicine, or even a skilled Mohel. I'm sure some got botched. Yet God considered it important as a sign of the covenant.

Personally, I do not buy into the so-called health reasons for circumcision. The only reasons for circumcision that I consider valid are religious ones.

 

[blackribbon]

Some people get a circumcision as an adult. Testimonys range from "sex feels better than ever" and "can't tell any difference" to "can't feel anything", with premature [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] and such insensitvity that [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] is next to impossible thrown into the mix.

complicated even more by the placebo effect ... meaning they may experience what they think they should be experiencing ..... complicated even further by we don't know the difference between doing to a man vesus a baby (there could be a difference).