Circumcision

[blackribbon]

I can't find a single credible source (impartial medical report) that shows any babies dying from being circumcised in the US. There is some anti-circumcision site that claims 117 babies die each year...but they have been posting the same info for over 7 years. There is some story about a baby dying from blood loss in the UK. But we monitor a circumcision here. No baby would be discharged from the hospital if he was actively bleeding. And they have ways to stop the bleeding if necessary...it isn't an endless fountain of blood and the doctors and nurses running around like keystone kops saying "what do I do, what do I do?" Our equipment is sterile and procedure is done sterile, so the risk for infection is incredibly low...and again, we monitor the site closely so we would see something before it got bad....and certainly, not bad enough to die from. What else could cause a baby to die from a circumcism?

 

[blackribbon]

Well, I have this skin, and I need it and wouldn't part with it for anything less than a yuge amount of money, thank you very much.

What exactly do you need it for? (and lucky for you, nobody is going to show up and force you to have a circumcision, so you are good)

 

[blackribbon]

Doubtfull. They could just make it an ellective procedure that someone pays out of his own pocked, like a beauty OP.

And most other countries' boards of pediatrics don't reccomend it. Actually, I don't think there's another industrial state except the USA that reccomends it. Might be because of the metric system.

Yes...and people flock to those countries for medical procedures and surgeries because their medical care is so much better than ours (not). If people do go out of the US, it is to pay less or get treatments that we don't consider safe.

 

[blackribbon]

Actually, I just looked it up and WHO (the World Health Organization) does recommend circumcision as a preventative action in countries that have high HIV rates.
Male circumcision for HIV prevention

 

[Joshua_5]

I don't know why people get their panties up in a wad over this. It is a private decision.

To be fair, the Canadian Board of Pediatrics doesn't recommend circumcision. However, I wonder if is could just be a cost savings decision since the government would have to pay for all those circumcisions. In the end, their recommendation is exactly what the American Academy of Pediatrics says.... "be informed and make your own decision."

It wouldn't surprise me. Probably a heap of health agencies are denying the benefits of circumcision to save their respective governments a few dollars. Which is sad, as people are sicker as a result, and the cost will ultimately be more than the minimal cost for such a minor procedure (I read that in Africa, they were overcoming the cost issue with do-it-yourself kits!). And people who know no better accuse loving parents of being barbarians. But truth will win out in the end.

 

[Joshua_5]

I don't believe in the existence of your god.

I think the muslims call it "the people of the book". Don't know the christian name.

I think it's a mixture of wanting something they are used to (most women in nations where a minority is circumcised prefer uncircumcised men) and bad experiences with boyfriends who don't know how to shower properly.

I guess I can see where you're coming from. If I didn't believe in God, I wouldn't be so sure of whether circumcision was good or barbaric. And if I were a female with all these people saying its barbaric and removes feeling from the male organ etc., and the foreskin is comparable to the clitoral hood (and lacked the anatomy to know first hand whether circumcision made a difference or no), I might be persuaded to your point of view.

So I don't agree with you, but I think I understand why you believe what you do.

As for the guys washing, it would likely require 5 or more washes a day to maintain the same level of cleanliness you're expecting - no one has time for that (its not like washing your hands).

 

[blackribbon]

FYI

Circumcising an infant takes 5-10 minutes and they heal in less than 10 days.

Circumcising an adult takes 1 hour and recovery time is 3 weeks.

Circumcision: Why It's Done, Risks and Recovery

 

[blackribbon]

So now your argument is that it is for the WOMAN's pleasure...??? But you just accused me propagating mis-information encouraging circumcision.

Are you under the mistaken idea that I don't like having sex or that I think my daughter ought to have less of an experience because I don't like her?

I think you are running out of arguments and are grasping for straws now.

(Women tend to like what they think is "normal" so women in countries where men ARE circumcised are going to mostly prefer circumcised men.... and I think that is evidenced by how many baby boys are circumcised here.)

 

[blackribbon]

And you are allowed to not believe in the existence of the Christian God...but don't forget, it is you who is posting on a Christian forum....

Again, most people circumcise for reasons other than religion.

 

[Owen GB5]

And you are allowed to not believe in the existence of the Christian God...but don't forget, it is you who is posting on a Christian forum....

Again, most people circumcise for reasons other than religion.

This whole discussion could only happen in the U.S.A. No other Christian country suffers from these perceived problems. They respect the right of individuals to chose for themselves whether to be whole or not.

 

[blackribbon]

This whole discussion could only happen in the U.S.A. No other Christian country suffers from these perceived problems. They respect the right of individuals to chose for themselves whether to be whole or not.

LOL... you are really in love with your foreskin, aren't you?

Over 50 million men are circumcised in the US (that is more than 10x the number of people in New Zealand)....50 million unwhole men....to stupid to realize they are unwhole because they make the same decision for their children as their parents made for them. US must be a terrible place to live being so repressed, backward, and uneducated. (yes, that is sarcasm)

I wonder where the Christians even got the idea of circumcision? Because God certainly has never said it was a good thing .... or maybe your Christian Bible doesn't doesn't have Genesis 17 ... or maybe God is evil and just likes maiming men?)

Genesis 17:
9 Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. 10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring. 13 Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”

Solution: If this is so important to you, don't circumcised yourself or your children. Also, stop spending so much time worried about other men's male organs if they don't have a problem with it...it isn't really healthy nor Christian-like.

 

[blackribbon]

FYI: I actually prefer when babies aren't circumcised for a selfish reason. It is less work for me. I don't have to do 4 hour circ checks. Normally by the time the baby is circumcised, they are stable enough that I only have to 8 hour vital signs and focused assessments (meaning more than just looking at the baby and seeing that nothing doesn't look abnormal). If I have multiple newly circumcised patients and multiple c-section moms, I can be very busy just doing normal status checks.

 

[Meowzltov]

Of course not, but maybe stop them from shaving their infants armpits without medical reason?

Really, this is the worst analogy I've seen in a while.

There is no medical reason for shaving armpits.

 

[possibletarian]

What exactly do you need it for? (and lucky for you, nobody is going to show up and force you to have a circumcision, so you are good)

And yet it's forced it on a child.

 

[Nithavela]

I'd defend infant circumcision as well if I were working in neonatal care. It's 400 dollars a snip, after all.

 

[blackribbon]

I'd defend infant circumcision as well if I were working in neonatal care. It's 400 dollars a snip, after all.

I get paid exactly the same if a baby is circumcised or it isn't.... so nope, not a valid argument. And our hospital doesn't need to make up reasons to generate income ... in fact, a circumcision can keep a family in the hospital longer and we are always desperate to empty our room to make room for the next baby. We are at full capacity and over flow quite offen. (and if it is simple "a snip", why does it bother you so much)?

 

[blackribbon]

And yet it's forced it on a child.

We also force out kids to brush their teeth, go to school, eat vegetables, and wear clothing.... poor kids.
Very few circumcised men wish they weren't.

 

[blackribbon]

I'd defend infant circumcision as well if I were working in neonatal care. It's 400 dollars a snip, after all.

I don't know where you get your numbers. Medicaid allows for less than $200 for a newborn circumcision and private insurance pays about $250 based on my research. The rest of the care costs are going to be the same with our without the circ because they are part of normal postpartum care.

FYI...it appears the price for a circumcision done after the child is a newborn runs around $2500.

 

[possibletarian]

We also force out kids to brush their teeth, go to school, eat vegetables, and wear clothing.... poor kids.
Very few circumcised men wish they weren't.

The comparison is beyond silly, you really think that asking a child to brush their teeth, is the same as cutting a part of one of the most important part of the body off, the medical reasons really are unconvincing.

It's wrong to make a unnecessary physical change to a child's body, especially ones that they can choose as an adult, pure and simple.

 

[blackribbon]

The comparison is beyond silly, you really think that asking a child to brush their teeth, is the same as cutting a part of one of the most important part of the body off, the medical reasons really are unconvincing.

It's wrong to make a unnecessary physical change to a child's body, especially ones that they can choose as an adult, pure and simple.

I have sat through newborn circumcisions and children getting a cavity filled. The dental work is more traumatic. And I am not sure what your credentials are to say the medical reasons aren't convincing enough. They are convincing enough in the US that the main pediatric association is for circumcisions. I find that reasonably convincing.

Again, don't circumcised your kids. And don't make decisions for other people based on your own bias. Enough men who are circumcised are willing to have their son's circumcised (actually, the men are more for it than the moms)...I don't think it is fair to assume that they don't know what they are talking about and they certainly don't feel maimed or that they are missing any significant part of their body.