Circumcision

[Diane_Windsor]

What are your views on male circumcision?

DIANE

 

[MattyJames]

IF we believe that we hold the same faith as Abraham, a faith of Promise. And if we call Abraham our Father, then Circumsicion is still very relevant.

By Circumsicion, I mean circumsicion of the Flesh, for an EIGHT DAY OLD MALE, and more importantly, Circumsicion of the HEART, by everyone that calls Yeshua the Messiah and wishes to "cut off" that old man of sin.

I personally do not find any obligation for a new believer (over 8 days old), that was not of the Faith of Abraham, to Circumcise. He may though, as a free will offering, as was the case of Abraham himself.

I do believe however, that for a Male, bought up in the Faith, whos God has always been the God of Abraham and was not circumcised, that he must make right the Breach of the Covanant. We find two examples of this in Josh 5:2-9 and `Acts 16:3.

Well thats my 2 bob worth lol.

Gods grace be with you,

MattyJames

 

[Jezzy]

Personally, I believe that circumcision of the flesh is not required, however, I believe it is a lot more clean than uncircumcision. When I had my son circumcised, the surgeon actually came to me and said "You know, many boys grow up without a problem being uncircumcised." I told him, "That's very fine and well for them, I have my beliefs regarding this issue and that's it." He then tried to convince me that it was hard on baby boys to be circumcised. I told him that my boy would be fine. Then, he (thinking I was only a teenage mother who's own parents had convinced her to have her child circumcised), told me not to listen to my parents (what gall!). I told him I was married. He got very quiet and left.

I think the world wants us to believe that circumcision is wrong - that it's mutilation. But believe me, my son isn't going to remember a bit of it, and he won't be any the wiser.

 

[stone]

My son will be two in a couple of weeks and there wasn't much talk with the hospital about the subject. They asked us if we wanted it done, and i said of course. I wasn't as biblically observant as i am now, but i just felt that it is important.

It sounds like the doctor was actually trying to talk you out of it. wow.

I only have one son, i didn't even think that it would cause any pain, and it didn't appear to cause any at all. he is such a happy baby.

 

[Wags]

Just had my son's brit milah last month - on the eighth day as commanded by Adonai. We never even entertained the thought of not having it done.

 

[Tishri1]

IF we believe that we hold the same faith as Abraham, a faith of Promise. And if we call Abraham our Father, then Circumsicion is still very relevant.

By Circumsicion, I mean circumsicion of the Flesh, for an EIGHT DAY OLD MALE, and more importantly, Circumsicion of the HEART, by everyone that calls Yeshua the Messiah and wishes to "cut off" that old man of sin.

I personally do not find any obligation for a new believer (over 8 days old), that was not of the Faith of Abraham, to Circumcise. He may though, as a free will offering, as was the case of Abraham himself.

I do believe however, that for a Male, bought up in the Faith, whos God has always been the God of Abraham and was not circumcised, that he must make right the Breach of the Covanant. We find two examples of this in Josh 5:2-9 and `Acts 16:3.

Well thats my 2 bob worth lol.

Gods grace be with you,

MattyJames

I agree with you MJ

 

[BillynJennifer]

During a jewish circumcision, what is the ritual or tradition that is followed: as far as prayers spoken and the way they go about it? Thank you.

 

[jgonz]

IF we believe that we hold the same faith as Abraham, a faith of Promise. And if we call Abraham our Father, then Circumsicion is still very relevant.

By Circumsicion, I mean circumsicion of the Flesh, for an EIGHT DAY OLD MALE, and more importantly, Circumsicion of the HEART, by everyone that calls Yeshua the Messiah and wishes to "cut off" that old man of sin.

I personally do not find any obligation for a new believer (over 8 days old), that was not of the Faith of Abraham, to Circumcise. He may though, as a free will offering, as was the case of Abraham himself.

I do believe however, that for a Male, bought up in the Faith, whos God has always been the God of Abraham and was not circumcised, that he must make right the Breach of the Covanant. We find two examples of this in Josh 5:2-9 and `Acts 16:3.

I agree with this completely.

We circ'd all 5 of our boys. We didn't have the option of using a mohel and doing it on the 8th day, but it was very important to us to do anyway, and we still felt were dedicating our sons to the L-rd.

 

[Wags]

During a jewish circumcision, what is the ritual or tradition that is followed: as far as prayers spoken and the way they go about it? Thank you.

Well it varies a little with each Mohel, but you can read through a basic service here: http://www.brismilah.com/

For our son we changed the final blessing slightly to reflect our messianic beliefs:

...this little one may he become great. Even as he was gathered to the covenant, so may he be gathered to the Torah and to faith in Yeshua the Messiah, to the chuppah and to good deeds.

 

[Diane_Windsor]

During a jewish circumcision, what is the ritual or tradition that is followed: as far as prayers spoken and the way they go about it? Thank you.

This site might help.

Is a mohel an ordained Rabbi? Does one must be a Rabbi in order to be a mohel?

DIANE

 

[Wags]

A Rabbi can be a Mohel, but a Mohel does not have to be a Rabbi. A Mohel can also be a doctor, but does not have to be.

 

[plum]

Wags: did a Messianic act as a Mohel for Ari?

 

[christinepro]

I agree with this completely.

We circ'd all 5 of our boys. We didn't have the option of using a mohel and doing it on the 8th day, but it was very important to us to do anyway, and we still felt were dedicating our sons to the L-rd.

Me too!! I only had two sons, though.

 

[Wags]

Wags: did a Messianic act as a Mohel for Ari?

No - the (reform) Mohel we were going to use, got called to a family emergency out of state so we ended up having a local family doctor do it and we did the service ourselves.

In our state that is rather common - there are only 3 certified mohels in the whole state. (two of them refused to do it because we are messianic) So even non-messianic jews have a local doctor do it and then their rabbi does the blessing portion. (Of course if you are wealthy you can fly one in from out of state - we aren't wealthy...)

 

[BillynJennifer]

Here is the big question that I have, since we are on the subject of circ. I am a Christian, who embraces my Jewish roots through Jesus. I have not been circ. Does that cut me off from the blessings that those who have experienced circ. have?

I don't feel any conviction toward having it done, but that is something that I've wondered. If that was not an appropriate question to ask here, mods please delete.

Billy

 

[Tishri1]

Here is the big question that I have, since we are on the subject of circ. I am a Christian, who embraces my Jewish roots through Jesus. I have not been circ. Does that cut me off from the blessings that those who have experienced circ. have?

I don't feel any conviction toward having it done, but that is something that I've wondered. If that was not an appropriate question to ask here, mods please delete.

Billy

I still agree with MJ when he said

I personally do not find any obligation for a new believer (over 8 days old), that was not of the Faith of Abraham, to Circumcise. He may though, as a free will offering, as was the case of Abraham himself.

It's not a salvation issue and the way the Jews have it set up for anyone over 8 days old it does indeed seem to be a salvation issue(you become a Jew and are no longer a gentile when you go thru it) not nessessary in my book......

If you have a desire to be called by the Jews as a prostilite then you must renounce Yeshua too(in addition to Circumcision) so there is the main reason why it would be wise not to.....
In the 1st century many who believed in Yeshua were ALSO prostilitized and Paul was furious because his take was 'come on wasn't the blood of Yeshua enough!' The Jews were sooooo use to seeing the circumcision as a means to salvation that Paul wanted them to be clear on this one point....the Blood was enough, no more hoops were needed to obtain salvation......

Acts 15:5-11 5 and there rose up certain of those of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying -- 'It behoveth to circumcise them, to command them also to keep the law of Moses.' 6 And there were gathered together the apostles and the elders, to see about this matter, 7 and there having been much disputing, Peter having risen up said unto them, 'Men, brethren, ye know that from former days, God among us did make choice, through my mouth, for the nations to hear the word of the good news, and to believe; 8 and the heart-knowing God did bare them testimony, having given to them the Holy Spirit, even as also to us, 9 and did put no difference also between us and them, by the faith having purified their hearts; 10 now, therefore, why do ye tempt God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 but, through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, we believe to be saved, even as also they.

'

Acts 21:19-21 19 and having saluted them, he was declaring, one by one, each of the things God did among the nations through his ministration, 20 and they having heard, were glorifying the Lord. They said also to him, 'Thou seest, brother, how many myriads there are of Jews who have believed, and all are zealous of the law, 21 and they are instructed concerning thee, that apostasy from Moses thou dost teach to all Jews among the nations, saying -- Not to circumcise the children, nor after the customs to walk;

now this is a scripture that has been missread as it says "children" circumcisied here meaning the babies and it was rumored falsely that paul taught not to have it done to the babies and here we see he never said THAT, he was against it for salvation reasons ONLY

Acts 21:22-26 22 what then is it? certainly the multitude it behoveth to come together, for they will hear that thou hast come. 23 'This, therefore, do that we say to thee: We have four men having a vow on themselves, 24 these having taken, be purified with them, and be at expence with them, that they may shave the head, and all may know that the things of which they have been instructed concerning thee are nothing, but thou dost walk -- thyself also -- the law keeping.

so Paul was exhonorated that day of all the rumors that were spred around about how he was against the Law of Moses.....and they asked him to prove it to all Jerusalem by making a Nazarine Vow along with 4 others and to pay for all of them to do it which infact he did.....

 

[BillynJennifer]

Thank you Tishri for explaining that. I feel better now...

Billy

 

[MattyJames]

One thing I didn't make clear in my post;

If a man shall take on the ways of Abraham, who was not of Abrahams Faith in his past, every "man-child" born into his house from that day forward are obligated to be circumcised. After all, wasn't Ruth counted as one "Born in the Land" after her acceptance of the G-d of Israel? And likewise Uriah the Hittite. Furthermore, were not her children counted as Israelites? For they no longer belonged to the former things of this world, but have become citizens of the Kingdom of G-d.

"By Faith he so sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tents with Issac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: for he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is G-d."

Which brings me back to my earlier post; if we call Abraham our father, and likewise take hold of the promise, and therfore become citizens of that "City", then the upholding of the Covenant of Circumsition is a must.

Once again just my thoughts,

G-ds grace be with you all,

MattyJames

 

[Wags]

One thing I didn't make clear in my post;

If a man shall take on the ways of Abraham, who was not of Abrahams Faith in his past, every "man-child" born into his house from that day forward are obligated to be circumcised. After all, wasn't Ruth counted as one "Born in the Land" after her acceptance of the G-d of Israel? And likewise Uriah the Hittite. Furthermore, were not her children counted as Israelites? For they no longer belonged to the former things of this world, but have become citizens of the Kingdom of G-d.

"By Faith he so sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tents with Issac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: for he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is G-d."

Which brings me back to my earlier post; if we call Abraham our father, and likewise take hold of the promise, and therfore become citizens of that "City", then the upholding of the Covenant of Circumsition is a must.

Once again just my thoughts,

G-ds grace be with you all,

MattyJames

You explained yourself very well and I think you are right.

Once a non-believer has chosen to follow Adonai and to be called child of Abraham they are grafted into the family tree, and consequently they have the same rights and RESPONSIBILITIES as any other member of the family.

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Isaiah 56:3 No foreigner who has converted to the Lord should say, "The Lord will exclude me from His people"...

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[Yovel]

The foreigner can not partake of Passover if he is not circumsicesd.

Exo 12:48 When a stranger shall live as a foreigner with you, and will keep the Pesach to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one who is born in the land: but no uncircumcised person shall eat of it.