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No church that I know of thinks "it's the water." But the ones that believe in Baptismal Regeneration say that the sacrament puts us right with God, regenerates us by removing sin. The CofCs believe (I think) that baptism doesn't actually regenerate but that it is a requirement, an obligation, an extension and consequence of saving Faith...and in that way may be said to be necessary for salvation.
In other words, you're right. I just used more of them (words) to say it.
Ah, yes. It's not uncommon for Anglicans (and Roman Catholics) to say "the sacrament" when they have the Lord's Supper in mind. It's just a way of speaking. After all, there's at least one other sacrament that they all accept--Baptism.
And yes, it's the bread and wine, although they are actually what's called "the elements." The sacrament itself is more than the elements; it's the whole observance of the Supper. "Eucharist" is an even more common term for that. Its meaning comes from a word meaning a "thanksgiving" which, if you think about it, accords with the theology of most Protestant denominations like the CofCs and Baptists, even while its use is normally associated with the more ritualistic churches and the "high church" parties within them.
As for definitions, the Roman Catholic Church of course believes that the priest is offering the sacrifice of Christ and that the elements are actually turned, at his word, into Christ's physical, literal flesh and blood. Anglicans officially reject that view and generally say either that it's a mystery that is beyond definition and is not to be seen in that mechanical and Medieval way OR that it is Christ's true body and blood but in a spiritual sense only.
Thanks for your thoughts! Like Thedictator (not sure that name fits, seems like a pretty nice person)
Hello. Wouldn't it be best to say that they do not use the term "sacraments" and do not believe that they forgive sins? The CsofC of course are very emphatic about the importance of both the Lord's Supper and Baptism.Yes, and Churches of Christ do not believe in sacraments. Faith without action can not save, how ever way anyone wants to say it. Thank you for your comment brother.
Thank you, A3MON.I think its safe to say that we just don't call them sacraments. You're right, both acts are extremely important, sacred even, we just don't use the term sacrament to describe them. To be honest, the word has a very Catholic connotation in my mind (no offense).
No worries! You haven't been divisive or argumentative. I know I leaned somethings from you about what you believe. Civil conversation is never a problem. I appreciate you coming here and talking with us!
Hello. Wouldn't it be best to say that they do not use the term "sacraments" and do not believe that they forgive sins? The CsofC of course are very emphatic about the importance of both the Lord's Supper and Baptism.
By the way, I don't plan to overstay my visit here; and I do appreciate that when this topic caught my eye, no one protested that I was overstepping the forum rules. I definitely am not going to criticize the beliefs or practices of the Restorationist churches on their members' own forum.
I appreciate it.Your right, we believe in them and hold them as very important to our faith. Your right it is mainly words. I can't talk for everyone but as for me you may comment anytime you like, I do not mine courteous constructive criticism, tell us what think about an issue and let's have a constructive, courteous, and Godly debate. We all should want to know the truth even if it goes against our strong held beliefs..
Well your Welcome here.I appreciate it.
I don't remember visiting this forum before, but I know that some other forums simply do not want to hear from a non-member under any circumstances.
...but I know that some other forums simply do not want to hear from a non-member under any circumstances.
I'm right with you on that, my friend. I was thinking just the other day about all these "safe houses" that CF now offers. There are two at least for Adventists, three different forums for Roman Catholics, a new one for "Egalitarian Christians" and on and on. I realized that a lot of people of different religious persuasions that I used to interact with are not to be seen anymore on any forums that they used to frequent. They are still online but now are exclusively talking to people who are just like them. That's a loss for everyone, IMO.Paul made his mission to reason with those he was trying to reach. If we cut ourselves off from anyone else but those of like faith, who will we spread our message to? Not trying to preach at you, but just where my thinking comes from.
Under the doctrine of baptismal regeneration, baptism has the power to remove sin, faith is not needed and in some cases works independently of God. This is more of a Catholic doctrine. Under Churches of Christ doctrine baptism is an act that God uses to impart salvation, and faith must be present. It is God not baptism who removes sin.
Wouldn't Lutherans say something similar, that baptism is no good without faith? They believe in baptismal regeneration, but not in the Roman Catholic sense.
Also, if someone found faith and was willing to get baptized, but died before he had the chance, then what is his eternal destiny?
Does the churches of Christ recognize baptisms from other churches such as Baptists, or must one be baptized according to the church of Christ standards?
I don't think so. The Lutheran view and the RC view are pretty similar. Lutherans would say that words without faith don't change anything, but the 'faith part' of Baptism is either present in the candidate or in the witnesses speaking for the child.Wouldn't Lutherans say something similar, that baptism is no good without faith? They believe in baptismal regeneration, but not in the Roman Catholic sense.
All the historic, liturgical churches would say that "Baptism of Desire" by one name or another would apply.Also, if someone found faith and was willing to get baptized, but died before he had the chance, then what is his eternal destiny?
@FaithfulPilgrim, on a total tangent from this topic, I saw on your profile you're from South Carolina. Where about? I was born and raised in/near Charleston. I've been all over since then, but settled in Texas.
Wouldn't Lutherans say something similar, that baptism is no good without faith? They believe in baptismal regeneration, but not in the Roman Catholic sense.
Also, if someone found faith and was willing to get baptized, but died before he had the chance, then what is his eternal destiny?
Does the churches of Christ recognize baptisms from other churches such as Baptists, or must one be baptized according to the church of Christ standards?
Wouldn't Lutherans say something similar, that baptism is no good without faith? They believe in baptismal regeneration, but not in the Roman Catholic sense.
Also, if someone found faith and was willing to get baptized, but died before he had the chance, then what is his eternal destiny?
Does the churches of Christ recognize baptisms from other churches such as Baptists, or must one be baptized according to the church of Christ standards?
Wouldn't Lutherans say something similar, that baptism is no good without faith? They believe in baptismal regeneration, but not in the Roman Catholic sense.
Also, if someone found faith and was willing to get baptized, but died before he had the chance, then what is his eternal destiny?
Does the churches of Christ recognize baptisms from other churches such as Baptists, or must one be baptized according to the church of Christ standards?
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