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Featured Churches and Creation

Discussion in 'Creationism' started by RC Tent, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. RC Tent

    RC Tent Member

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    Who here is in a denomination or official church that stands up for Genesis as true? I am looking for those that insist on the direct creation of humans especially, or historical interpretation of Genesis, anything that rejects evolution and chemical stew as the origin of life.

    I am just trying to find out what churches there are that do, and if possible what it is they officially say about it.

    TIA
     
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  2. M Walter

    M Walter New Member

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    I certainly believe creationism over evolution. Is that the question? I have been a member at several church (wife has a policy to change churches every few years), and all that I attended were creationists. Is there something you are seeking?
     
  3. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    SDA do. Here is a link of many resources including scientific ones supporting creation (6 day creation). There are many free articles and/or videos available.

    Creation and Science Resources

    God Bless.
     
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  4. RC Tent

    RC Tent Member

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    I like your wife's policy, good thinking.

    The question is to find out which existing denominations officially support the direct divine creation of humans as doctrine or equivalent to that. I just want to know which ones exist that do that, and which at least defend creationism in members, even if they don't expect everyone to agree. It is churches actually lead by leaders who support Genesis I am really after, although individual's who are convinced of it are welcome to post in this thread (even if their church is not in line).
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  5. KomatiiteBIF

    KomatiiteBIF Well-Known Member

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    I think all of our churches stand up for Genesis as truth. It's just a matter of whether that truth is perceived as literal 6 days or allegorical.

    Even popular study Bibles recognize multiple interpretations as being possible.
     
  6. RC Tent

    RC Tent Member

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    Yes, that is why I wrote all of my first post, not just the first part, which seems to be the only part you have read/noticed.
     
  7. KomatiiteBIF

    KomatiiteBIF Well-Known Member

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    Just pointing out the vagueness of the first sentence, that's all.

    "Who here is in a denomination or official church that stands up for Genesis as true?... anything that rejects evolution".

    Perhaps you could add the word "literal" or Genesis as literal truth".

    When you separate the first sentence from the remainder of the post, it implies that allegorical views are not "truth" and are not what you're seeking out. Given that the Catholic Church accepts evolution, this post also seems to reject Catholic views on Genesis, so they would be ruled out.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
  8. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    In effect the LCMS (a Confessional Lutheran denomination) takes this position, though there is widespread misunderstanding about how Lutherans approach topics like this. Those in leadership in the LCMS basically express a YEC view, but it's not a litmus test for membership and so many members probably hold a theistic evolution view.

    At its simplest, the LCMS position is that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God. That means reading the text as intended (history as history, allegory as allegory, etc.). Further, the LCMS views the purpose of the Church as the preaching & teaching of the Word. It avoids both intellectualism and moralism. Lastly, it doesn't shut down discussion, but considers discussion part of the process of growing as a believer.

    So, if a member wants to discuss creation/evolution issues, we discuss it ... and that means listening to their viewpoint. But honestly, it rarely comes up. It's not a central theme of the Church.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
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  9. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

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    The vast majority of the world's Christians belong to denominations that accept Genesis as true. However, it should be noted that creationists also claim that they accept Genesis as true.

    So it seems all Christians believe they do, even creationists.
     
  10. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

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    Evangelical Lutheran Church in America

    While the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America has not issued a definitive statement on evolution, it does contend that “God created the universe and all that is therein, only not necessarily in six 24-hour days, and that God actually may have used evolution in the process of creation.”
    Religious Groups’ Views on Evolution
     
  11. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    I'm not ELCA.
     
  12. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    Hi RC.

    There are a number of denominations that hold to a young earth creationist model as their official understanding. Southern Baptists are generally supportive of that understanding. However, as with most denominations that are fairly autonomous in congregational understanding, you will find the outlier here and there. Also as you pointed out, just because a particular denomination teaches young earth creation model, that doesn't mean that each individual member also then accepts that model.

    I served for years with the Gideons International and I honestly thought that they were one of the most conservative bunch of christian men I'd met in one room. I was shocked when I was riding back with one of my brothers and the topic somehow got on the creation and he didn't really accept the young earth creationist model. When I explained what I believed about the time and processes of the creation event, he kind of looked over at me rather oddly and said, "You don't really believe that, do you?"

    God bless,
    In Christ, ted
     
  13. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

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    One of my assistants was a Southern Baptist and was very knowledgeable about biology in general and evolution in particular. He once told me that when people got up in Church and started preaching YE creationism, he just stayed quiet to avoid controversy.

    Which is a pretty reasonable thing for him to do.
     
  14. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    This is where the misunderstanding lies. Confessional Lutheranism doesn't hold to any origins "model". Rather, it is one of the few Christian traditions that is willing to say, "Scripture is silent on issue X, therefore we are also silent on the matter."

    Issues of creation create a complex blend of a belief in contextual interpretation (Genesis is history) and silence (the Bible doesn't explicitly address inheritable mutation of DNA).
     
  15. KomatiiteBIF

    KomatiiteBIF Well-Known Member

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    A literal interpretation really plays into the idea that, not only is evolution not true, but the planet is also 6 days old.

    So even in cases people might disagree over evolution, they might still be caught in a bind over whether or not Genesis is to be taken literally with respect to 6 day creation.

    So we are really left with two options. Either the bizarre claim that the planet is 6 days old and we support a literal interpretation with two of every animal of the entire planet stuffing onto a tiny boat, or we are left with the conclusion that scientists and researchers actually know what they're talking about.

    Either conclusion is controversial in it's own way, so often the topic is left unaddressed in sermons. Can't have a church if you don't have the support of the adherents. So may as well keep the controversy for the social media realm.
     
  16. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    Hi resha,

    I understand, but I don't believe that the Scriptures are silent on the subject. Therefore, while it may be where some denominations feel that there may be some misunderstanding, I don't happen to agree.

    I find that the Scriptures are fairly clear and quite concise on the subject. The law of the Sabbath is based on the creation event having taken 6 days. Jesus declared that Adam was the first man. According to God's historical account of the creation event, Adam was created on day 6. Then we find a fairly concise account of the passage of years from Adam to Noah to Abraham and beyond.

    However, some fellowships and individual believers believe that because we don't understand 'inheritable mutation of DNA, or that God didn't apparently discuss with us this issue, then the account must be suspect. Friend, God hasn't told you how molecules cling to each other to form various compounds, but we know that they do. God hasn't told you the nuts and bolts of how He divided indivisible water, but He has said that He parted a sea and I believe that He did.

    I come from a school that happily accepts that we don't have near enough information to understand the 'how' that God did a lot of things that He has claimed to have done. However, I don't allow my ignorance of such things to issue a denial of 'what' God has said that He has done.

    God has said that in one bitter night He had an angel of death pass through and kill every firstborn child of both men and beast in just a singular city on the face of the earth. I have no idea how God actually caused that to happen. God has told us that on a particular day He caused a shadow cast by the sun to go backwards 10 steps. I have no idea how God did that. But I'm confident that He did.

    However, as to the time and circumstance of the creation event, I believe that God has given us plenty of information to understand when it happened. I understand that we live in a created 'realm'. A physical construct of atomic matter of solids and liquids that was all, according to the Scriptures, created by God. In fact, the Scriptures declare that there is nothing that exists that God didn't create. So, when I begin to understand that God and the awesome power and abilities that He has, psssssh, Stopping the sun in the sky is child's play for Him. Parting a sea is as easy for Him as just telling the sea to part and it does! Creating all of the millions of stars and planets and asteroids and nebulae and galaxies that make up all that is the universe in which we reside in a matter of the time it takes for the earth to complete one full rotation upon its axis...that's just all in a days work for the God who tells us about Himself in His word.

    I believe all of that because I believe that God created this entire realm for the sole purpose of creating man. A creature of his love and desire that He will ultimately share an eternal existence with. Where He will be our God and those who love Him will be His people. God's entire purpose in creating this realm is for that eventuality. Because I believe that God created this realm of existence just so this creature that He has crafted with love and desire can live, I have no problem understanding that this all came to exist in mere hours. The whole of the Scriptures declares that truth. God created. He called out of that creating a people to be His people. He used those people to deliver to all mankind His word and His promises and His plan for the salvation of men. Then, in the fullness of time. When all had been recorded just as God desired that it be, Jesus came! Now, according to the writers of the new covenant, God is waiting patiently for some to come to the knowledge of the truth.

    Then we're all going to be just amazed as we watch Him roll it all up like a scroll pretty much in reverse as how He laid it all out.

    That's what I believe and I'm fairly confident that's what the Scriptures tell me is the truth of the matter about this realm in which we now live.

    God bless,
    In Christ, ted
     
  17. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    Not really. There are many assumptions involved. This is a good example of what I mean. I accept Adam, Noah, and Abraham as real people. I accept the longevity of their lives. But Scripture doesn't add up years, nor does it proclaim the age of the earth. Why? Probably because it doesn't matter. If it doesn't matter to God, then it doesn't matter to me. Adding up the years is a contrived argument meant to protect a paradigm that has nothing to do with the Gospel message.

    Even if it were true ... even if the earth is only 6000 years old ... that does nothing to refute evolution. I am aware of the problematic elements of science that promote billions of years. I'm just as skeptical of billions as I am of 6000, but it doesn't impinge on whether evolution is true or false.

    So, IMO, we don't know the age of the earth or the universe, and it doesn't matter to the Gospel nor to science. It might be a curiosity that people enjoy studying. It's not of interest to me, but it doesn't bother me if people enjoy poking about and trying to figure it out.

    My attitude is much the same regarding all the history recorded in the Bible. I believe it's true, but many people can't separate what the Bible says from all their extrapolated conclusions. They think them one and the same thing.

    Putting history aside since it is irrelevant to evolution (and the OP asked about evolution), evolution itself does impinge on some theological issues. In those cases where the theology is clear, then I accept said theology, not evolution. But even then, I don't judge the faith of those Christians who disagree with me. I see it as a discussion, as an activity of the Christian community to grow - not as a challenge to prove error or drive out people who's evolutionist views have marked them as unbelievers.
     
  18. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    Hi resha,

    Thanks for your response. You wrote:
    Well, again, we'll have to agree to disagree on both of those points. God's Scriptures do add up years as we go from father to son to father to son in the genealogies of Adam to Noah to Abram to Isaac and Jacob. Now, if one doesn't want to add those numbers, then that's up to them.

    Listen, I know your position, but I wholeheartedly disagree with it.

    God bless,
    In Christ, ted
     
  19. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Ship of Fools Supporter

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    Evolution vs. Creationism is actually one of those issues that least divides the LCMS and ELCA.

    And Resha is right, the LCMS isn't really a church of isms (and neither really, is the ELCA), unlike alot of the Reformed churches that basically will spend alot of energy defining and policing all sorts of little minor issues of biblical interpretation. In my experience, LCMS are also alot less threatened by science in general, as compared to many American Evangelical groups.

    My own pastor does not preach on the subject of evolution or creationism, though he does talk about Adam and Eve as a real persons, we don't go into exactly what that means. We assume it is a sacred story, but like Resha says, we are more interested in discussion than firm stances that would exclude peoples perspectives and shut down conversations.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
  20. Ttalkkugjil

    Ttalkkugjil Spiritual Director

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    I'm in two denominations that stand up for Creation - the Fellowship of Evangelical Baptist Churches in Canada, and the Korean Baptist Convention.
     
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