Church authority structure

[ViaCrucis]

The simple matter is this:

It is biblical that we, as the Church, have structure for the sake of good order. How we go about sorting out all the ins and outs of that structure is a matter of tradition and what is practical. It is undeniable that the Apostles put into place bishops and presbyters to shepherd and serve the congregations and communities where the Gospel was preached and received; and that this chain of ordination/succession was firmly established very early on (as St. Clement, writing toward the end of the first century, tells us in his epistle to the Corinthians).

Is, therefore, Apostolic Succession necessary to the administration of Word and Sacrament for the good and benefit of the Church? I'd argue no. But that this was the case historically; and regardless, it still remains a simple fact and truth that from the beginning that even as Christ appointed His Apostles these same Apostles put forward structure in place for the good and benefit of the whole Church in every place they ministered in.

Of course, if one desires to be his own lord and chief authority in all matters, then such structure gets in the way of this. It shouldn't be any wonder, then, that so many who wish to be their own high pontiff and lord over the rest of the Faithful should resent the good order of the Church and replace it with themselves. Which is precisely what our Lord Jesus taught against in the Gospel.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Rick Otto]

Is, therefore, Apostolic Succession necessary to the administration of Word and Sacrament for the good and benefit of the Church? I'd argue no. But that this was the case historically; and regardless, it still remains a simple fact and truth that from the beginning that even as Christ appointed His Apostles these same Apostles put forward structure in place for the good and benefit of the whole Church in every place they ministered in.

All well & good.

Of course, if one desires to be his own lord and chief authority in all matters, then such structure gets in the way of this.

'Of course', if one willfuly denies his personal responsibility & surrenders authority in all matters, then structure itself is what one serves.

It shouldn't be any wonder, then, that so many who wish to be their own high pontiff and lord over the rest of the Faithful should resent the good order of the Church and replace it with themselves.

That happens in a compartmentalized way within every organization of every kind.
Nor should it be any wonder that so many that have been lorded over by institutionalized abusive pontiffs dispense with the inept order of the Church & rely on The Holy Spirit & bretheren.

Which is precisely what our Lord Jesus taught against in the Gospel.

Even Jesus would go off alone to seek the Lord.

 

[TrutherAU]

You talk of the inerrant nature of Scripture which mentions the various offices of Bishop, Presbyter and Deacon. Then you claim that these offices are based on a lie; make up your mind, which is it?

&

It is undeniable that the Apostles put into place bishops and presbyters to shepherd and serve the congregations and communities where the Gospel was preached and received; and that this chain of ordination/succession was firmly established very early on (as St. Clement, writing toward the end of the first century, tells us in his epistle to the Corinthians).

Biblical and undeniable is it! In that case i suppose you wont mind quoting the Corinthians passage,verse which shows this undeniable fact. I am happy to reconsider my attitudes if you prove to me I am wrong somehow i get the feeling though this more like optional extras. So in your next post please make an effort to quote these verses, passages or at least point me in the right direction.

Christ appointed His Apostles these same Apostles put forward structure in place for the good and benefit of the whole Church in every place they ministered in.

So jesus told his disciples that the future fellowship must be lead by Bishops, wearing mitres (zoroastrian origin) strolling around swinging burning incense teaching purgatory, limbo. Did Jesus also teach his disciples that the only way to God & his kingdom was via the pope. Likewise did the Apostle Paul tell his 1st c.e fellowship the same things? You have left many questions.
Questions that in my view must be proved to be accepted. We no longer live in an age where lay christians will just accept reasoning like yours without question I certainly wont.

It shouldn't be any wonder, then, that so many who wish to be their own high pontiff and lord over the rest of the Faithful should resent the good order of the Church and replace it with themselves. Which is precisely what our Lord Jesus taught against in the Gospel.

Thats an over exaggeration very melodramatic. I certainly have no intention of lording anything over anyone. The facts are though that many different churches and cults exist that do not prescribe to your orthodox eccelesiastic structure. In the west we live in pluralist societies there is nothing you can do to stop other christians worshiping however they wish to worship.Therefore it seems strange that you are so worried about this when no one else is telling you how you should worship. Are you able to live and let live or is this a problem for you.

 

[Hismessenger]

There is so much talk about Church structure but it is missed how that structure is incorporated. The true structure, God is the head and we, the church, are his followers. We don't set the structure, we follow the structure by FAITH in submission to God's will. That is the true church and it's structure. For if we follow God, we can never go wrong. It is only when we follow mans doctrine that Satan has his play field.

hismessenger

 

[Hismessenger]

The true gospel is about Faith, not ordinances or structure. Preach the true gospel and leave it in God's hand. Faith is what the apostles and more importantly Christ taught.

hismessenger

 

[josephearl]

The whole matter of apostolic succession is a dangerous teaching that flies in the face of how God chooses His apostles. But that's apostles I am talking about not men elected in conclaves who have no signs, wonders and miracles, attesting matters that God gives to those whom He has chosen, to affirm them. They are perhaps good men but are without doubt false in so far as they represent themselves as true apostles of Christ.
If one actually goes by what the Bible says that is....

 

[PaladinValer]

The whole matter of apostolic succession is a dangerous teaching that flies in the face of how God chooses His apostles.

Apostolic Succession was the 1st century Christian answer to Gnosticism.

But that's apostles I am talking about not men elected in conclaves who have no signs, wonders and miracles, attesting matters that God gives to those whom He has chosen, to affirm them. They are perhaps good men but are without doubt false in so far as they represent themselves as true apostles of Christ.
If one actually goes by what the Bible says that is....

This flies in what Apostolic Succession actually teaches and who taught it...

 

[Hismessenger]

Church authority goes in this wise, Christ the head, The holy Spirit,the teacher and us, the body. Christ told us to trust no man but yet we are unfaithful to him and we accept what man calls the order of church authority. Christ said that he would send a comforter, the Holy Spirit who would lead and guide us into all truth. Yet we take the word of man over the voice of God. If you don't believe it, ask yourself why there are so many denominations when there is only one spirit to lead the true church and he surely is not in all the denominations in holiness. But there standing at the door knocking for the world to hear and let him in.

hismessenger