Christmas

[James_Lai]

Hello.
What is your opinion of the way Christmas is celebrated by the church? I know Christmas amalgamated with ancient Middle Eastern pagan sun worship, and later absorbed some European traditions of a Child gifting man legend. I’m taking more about actual church celebration by remembering the birth of Jesus, nativity plays, and Christmas eve services.

Do you think the church needs to shed more of the non-Christian traditions? For example, rename to the Jesus’ Birthday and move to the actual season in March (if some scholars are correct). Cancel consumerist gift to each other and instead promote gift of forgiveness, kindness and love?

To return to the root of the Bible once and for all?

 

[Michie]

Refuting the ‘Pagan Roots of Christmas’ Claim

No, Christmas Trees Don't Have 'Pagan' Roots - RELEVANT

When Was Jesus Born? Italian Researcher Puts Christ’s Birth in December, 1 BC

 

[James_Lai]

Refuting the ‘Pagan Roots of Christmas’ Claim

No, Christmas Trees Don't Have 'Pagan' Roots - RELEVANT

When Was Jesus Born? Italian Researcher Puts Christ’s Birth in December, 1 BC

Thank you. Interesting. My question is not about that though.

Keep everything as is, or change smth? Not the wordly stuff, but what happens within the church

 

[Michie]

Thank you. Interesting. My question is not about that though.

Keep everything as is, or change smth? Not the wordly stuff, but what happens within the church

Well I don’t agree with your op. I can only give you the facts. I have no issues with how the Church celebrates Christmas.

 

[Sketcher]

I don't think that any major changes are needed. Even the consumerism is useful in that it produces sales, the problem is when people are so obsessed with themselves they buy stuff for themselves instead of gifts for others. Keep a right focus on giving to others, and you correct the problem.

 

[PloverWing]

What is your opinion of the way Christmas is celebrated by the church?

I like the church's calendar as it has developed, and the accompanying liturgical elements. The season of ordinary time that follows Pentecost can get a bit long, but I really like the half of the church year that is devoted to enacting and remembering the life of Christ. We prepare during the season of Advent, somewhat in the spirit of John the Baptist, attending to those things in our lives that interfere with God's work, and the hymns and readings during this season are appropriate to this time of preparation. Then, the great feast of the Incarnation at Christmas, with all its wonderful music. (The midnight Christmas Eve service is one of my favorites of the year.) Then Epiphany, Lent, and Easter, moving through the events of Jesus' life.

It doesn't really matter to me what the exact date of Jesus' birthday is; I doubt we can know. The winter solstice works well in the Northern Hemisphere, symbolically; I expect the summer solstice works less well as a symbol in places like Australia and Argentina. Easter, though, is historically linked to Passover, so arranging the church year so that Easter falls near Passover is appropriate.

 

[RickardoHolmes]

I LOVE the Advent season in the liturgical churches. I flock to the Episcopal church for most of the season, although the Methodist and Catholic churches will be good too. The "midnight Mass" as we call the late service on Christmas Eve is a must for celebrating the season in my Christmas experience. I would say the way churches I attend celebrate Christmas is about perfect as it is.

 

[topher694]

Hello.
What is your opinion of the way Christmas is celebrated by the church? I know Christmas amalgamated with ancient Middle Eastern pagan sun worship, and later absorbed some European traditions of a Child gifting man legend. I’m taking more about actual church celebration by remembering the birth of Jesus, nativity plays, and Christmas eve services.

Do you think the church needs to shed more of the non-Christian traditions? For example, rename to the Jesus’ Birthday and move to the actual season in March (if some scholars are correct). Cancel consumerist gift to each other and instead promote gift of forgiveness, kindness and love?

To return to the root of the Bible once and for all?

No. That would just turn Christmas into a Pharisitical exercise with different factions arguing over which is the correct "biblical" observation.

 

[Tolworth John]

I’m taking more about actual church celebration by remembering the birth of Jesus, nativity plays, and Christmas eve services.

Carol services, singing carols outside supermarkets, in malls, around local streets are a way of saying this church is here, of telling people about our services, sometimes to have a serious conversation about Christmas and Christianity, certainly people are shocked that we are not asking for money.

Many people who will not normally enter a church will come to a carol service or to a nativity play and they hear the gospel..
Christrmas service is a family time, we are together celebrating our savior birth, children get to show off a new toy etc.

Yes Christmas is commercialised, yes society distorts its meaning, but society does not understand Christianity.

 

[Martinius]

The churches are fine. The focus there is on preparing during the season of Advent, culminating in the celebration of the birth of Jesus. Then it continues beyond that. Not all are the same. The Orthodox church celebrates the gift giving aspect of the holidays on the Epiphany, which commemorates the arrival and gift giving by the three "wise men from the east", placing the Christmas Day emphasis on the birth Jesus, rather than materialism.

It is Consumer Christmas that has obscured the religious meaning. Even Christians get "wrapped up" in the material things of the holidays, such as over-decorating--more and fancier outdoor lighted decor does not make one a better Christian. And many "celebrate" with holiday trips--one couple I know said that they travel every year over Christmas, and not necessarily to be with family. Cruising or skiing time, I guess.

The timing of the season is now centered around shopping, beginning before Thanksgiving and ending abruptly on Christmas Eve. Christmas does not end on Christmas day, it BEGINS at that point. Radio stations play full time holiday songs (mostly secular) for weeks and weeks, which also end abruptly on Christmas Day (for some stations it ends on the Eve, and they return to "normal" programming on Christmas Day).

Christian Churches generally BEGIN using Christmas music on the Eve, and continue to the Epiphany. As it should be. Many of them have projects that provide meals, food, clothing and other necessities to the less fortunate, and Christians respond accordingly. As it should be. More and more people I know are bypassing the extravagant gift giving and instead donating that money to food pantries and other charities. As it should be.

No, I don't see much that churches need to change. I do see a lot of changes that people need to make regarding Christmas.

 

[Martinius]

Do you think the church needs to shed more of the non-Christian traditions? For example, rename to the Jesus’ Birthday and move to the actual season in March (if some scholars are correct).

I think there are historical and ethnic traditions that are not tied to any scriptural evidence, but I see no reason to shed them. It makes no difference whether some Christian holy days and celebrations replaced non-Christian events. It doesn't lessen or tarnish their reason or their meaning.

We really don't know when Jesus was born, so I agree that choosing the date was somewhat arbitrary. Moving it to March would make it conflict with the season of Lent and Easter. The importance is not in the date, but in the underlying meaning for Christians.

We call it Christmas or the equivalent in many other languages, while at the same time understanding that it is honoring and celebrating the birth of Christ.

Changing any of this would require agreement between the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church and the many Protestant denominations, as well as many countries and the business world. That's not going to happen, even if we had incontrovertible proof that Jesus was born on a specific date other than Dec. 25th.

 

[James_Lai]

Thank you everyone for your opinions!! So interesting to learn what you think.

Coming from a country without Christmas or any other Christian holiday, I remember the first Christmas in Canada. I went to a mall and saw carollers and it was amazing. The city was transformed with lighting and other decorations at night time. I felt like I was inside some magic tale. Even today I am amazed and my spirit is greatly uplifted during the Christmas season.

Then learning about the Christian aspect of it and seeing how the church celebrates it, I realized it was actually something else, not about the Santa Claus legend and gifts to children placed under a beautifully decorated fir tree. I felt pretending as if Santa exists to children was weird

So till today I feel a great discord, even in church. It’s my feeling of course and I don’t impose it. I read the Gospels and see how Jesus speaks of your heart and how he wants people to be genuine and truly loving. This deeply affects me, it was probably one of the strongest influences on me of all the teachings of any kind. I don’t know, if we are to celebrate His birth, maybe the most fitting tradition is to try to listen to Him? I think much of His message is ignored.

I don’t know if Jesus would prefer people to elevate the fact of His birth as we do today. His purpose was to change our ways. If we show one short season the year how we value Him but then the rest of the year we act as if His teachings don’t matter, then would He approve of it?

I know that the nativity story was probably invented with a single purpose to make Jesus be born in Bethlehem of Judea and not Nazareth of Galilee, to establish His Davidic messianic lineage to the Israelite royal throne. To me it really doesn’t matter. I don’t subscribe to the dualist apocalyptic view of this age and the age to come and the literal God’s Kingdom on earth as Jesus was preaching. He was mistaken in that view, as evidenced by later events. To me His moral lessons are of value, how He taught us to be ready for the Kingdom’s coming.

 

[Martinius]

I don’t know, if we are to celebrate His birth, maybe the most fitting tradition is to try to listen to Him? I think much of His message is ignored.

You hit the nail on the head. We celebrate and honor Jesus, or the image we have of Jesus, but ignore his message. Verbally proclaiming our assent to Christian beliefs but not acting accordingly seems to be the norm. It would be world changing if we did both.

I don’t know if Jesus would prefer people to elevate the fact of His birth as we do today. His purpose was to change our ways. If we show one season a year how we value Him but then the rest of the year we act as if His teachings don’t matter, then would He approve of it?

No, Jesus would not approve. First, we celebrate the birth of Jesus more than we do his resurrection. The latter is actually much more important. I often regret that the two nativity stories exist, as they distract us from the message and meaning of the Gospels, which should take precedence. It is interesting to note that in all his letters, Paul does not mention anything specific about the birth of Jesus, or its circumstances. Perhaps because it was not critical to his understanding of Christ nor important to his preaching and teaching?

We worship Jesus much more than we follow him. As you say, we are to repent, which means to change our ways. Do we? Not to any great extent that I have ever seen from most Christians. Yes, there are a few, but unfortunately very few. That could be why the world is the way it is, not a great improvement over the past 2000 years.