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Dec 25th is not arbitrary, and I'm tired of posting data to the contrary.
Fallen said:Thats your opinion, nothing more. And I love the allusion to "scriptural event" as giving backing to your ideas. Wars and murder and adultery, incest are "scriptural events" in the bible does that give them legitimacy?
more starwman please. When did i express the idea of absolutism? Your simply trying to pass off the idea that since "pagan influence" is ridiculous when taken to an extreme and absolute application, then it is incredible. And pointing out similarities doesn't disprove anything. Next your going to tell me that Christendom hasn't been influenced by paganism because the muslims have mohammed.Ok.
For instance, in the initiation ritual into the mystery cult of Isis. Initiants would have to undergo the practice of immersion.
Just one example, among many others.
I suppose you're going to say that baptism, as practiced, is a pagan ritual which should be rejected.
Yes you can find the "theoretical basis" alluded to here :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ChristmasVery well. That was a poor choice of words. I should have said that we don't know the day of the year on which Christ was born, but the December 25 date was one that had a theoretical basis behind it. However, it just was one of many.
Rest easy now.
]Fa||eN[;36611657 said:more starwman please. When did i express the idea of absolutism? Your simply trying to pass off the idea that since "pagan influence" is ridiculous when taken to an extreme and absolute application, then it is incredible. And pointing out similarities doesn't disprove anything. Next your going to tell me that Christendom hasn't been influenced by paganism because the muslims have mohammed.
]Fa||eN[;36612103 said:Yes you can find the "theoretical basis" alluded to here :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas
LOL. Ummm I said strawman, not starman. LOL yes i know of the misspelling.Starman, huh? We resemble that remark, but there's no time now. Got to get bring that deer back to life and find my way back to the mother ship.
the trinity, immortal soul, eternal torment of hell, and clergy-laity are good places for you to start.Seriously, such speculations aren't doing anything for your POV. If there are indeed "false doctrines" within Christianity because of pagan influence, list a few for us.
Another STRAWMAN.The Christmas tree is hardly a doctrine, true or false.
What book and verse please?The only observance Christ gave to commemorate was the Last supper.The fact that we celebrate the resurrection of Christ is mentioned right in scripture itself.
The problem is that "substance" is relative, or that it goes over peoples heads sometimes.So, is there anything with substance to present?
Perhaps you prefer this:http://www.catholicity.com/encyclopedia/c/christmas.htmlNot a bad article, but people on debate boards are going to have to stop thinking that Wikipedia means anything. Some pages are such baloney that they are embarrassing. After all, anyone can post anything he wants to any article and get away with it unless some other individual posts something over it. That's not much of a "source."
]Fa||eN[;36612578 said:LOL. Ummm I said strawman, not starman. LOL
the trinity, immortal soul, eternal torment of hell, and clergy-laity are good places for you to start.
Another STRAWMAN.
What book and verse please?The only observance Christ gave to commemorate was the Last supper.
The problem is that "substance" is relative, or that it goes over peoples heads sometimes.
The Christmas tree is hardly a doctrine, true or false. The fact that we celebrate the resurrection of Christ is mentioned right in scripture itself. So, is there anything with substance to present?
yes i noticed, it is somewhat misleading.You may think that's what you wrote, but it actually was "starwman" which is certainly open to speculation, isn't it?
Its not up to me to prove it to you, you need to prove it to yourself. See 2Cor 13:5-6.Well, it's you who are starting us off since you made the claim. However, mentioning doctrines without also offering any reason to think them pagan is no start. You need more than an allegation.
These verses are speaking of the arrangements the apostles had made with the congregation to fund their travels and ministry such as lodging and food costs and also for looking after the needy. In no way do they allude to celebrating Christs birthday except through your saying so. And as for Revelation 1:10 I hope your joking if you are saying that the Lord's day is christmas....Do you believe that the New Testament is the word of God...or only the parts that are Jesus speaking? If it is the former, read Acts 20.7, 1 Cor 16.2, and Rev 1.10, and get back to us.
You have been tried and you have been found wanting.Try us.
Yes I can just visualize Paul, Peter, and John skipping around gleefully with Easter baskets full of the colourful eggs they found, in celibration of the fact that thier beloved master was tortured and killed on account of their sin........actualy no I can't.
Yes I can just visualize Paul, Peter, and John skipping around gleefully with Easter baskets full of the colourful eggs they found, in celibration of the fact that thier beloved master was tortured and killed on account of their sin........actualy no I can't.
]Fa||eN[;36615590 said:Its not up to me to prove it to you, you need to prove it to yourself.
These verses are speaking of the arrangements the apostles had made with the congregation to fund their travels and ministry such as lodging and food costs and also for looking after the needy. In no way do they allude to celebrating Christs birthday except through your saying so. And as for Revelation 1:10 I hope your joking if you are saying that the Lord's day is christmas....
Yes I can just visualize Paul, Peter, and John skipping around gleefully with Easter baskets full of the colourful eggs they found, in celibration of the fact that thier beloved master was tortured and killed on account of their sin........actualy no I can't.
Can you imagine Paul, Peter, and John going around with "WWJD" bracelets on? Can you just visualize them preaching before a Christian rock band onstage with electric instruments? actually no, I can't.
I actually CAN see any of those 3 men doing exactly that.
Clearly, as I read the book of Acts, I see Paul going to wherever the people were - wherever the audience was. If it was the men of the Athenian marketplace, he'd be there. If it was an arena full of punks - who would at least listen - I think he'd be there.
Of course, those are just my thoughts...
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