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Christmas

Castaway57

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Castaway:

The tree Jeremiah spoke of was an evergreen tree.
stinsonmarri
Where does it say this in the Bible? Jer 10 does not say "Christmas tree"; it is very clearly referring to carved idols/graven images which they used to make in those days, in that area. You need to prove by the Bible alone that I am wrong on this before what you say can be believed.

One thing I find surprising is that you say the "Christmas hymns" are "a delusion." That's pretty far-fetched. I sing them all year; not just Dec 25th. They have a great message about our Savior.

The Hopes and Fears of All the Years

“And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger. And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child. And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds.” (Luk_2:16-18)

Phillips Brooks, Rector of Philadelphia, wrote the words to O Little Town of Bethlehem in 1868, following a pilgrimage to the Holy Land. He was inspired by the view of Bethlehem from the hills of Palestine especially at night time; hence the lyrics.

His church organist, Lewis Redner, wrote the melody for the Sunday school children’s choir.

There is a line from the first verse that almost gets lost in the bigger picture of the song. “The hopes and fears of all the years are met in thee tonight.” Hopes and Fears represent the polar ends of a wide range of feelings.

As we gaze back into that historic moment laid out before us in the Gospels, there we see a most remarkable assortment of figures gathering round about this infant boy. And unknowingly they unite to send a singular message down through the Ages.

We can come together in the presence of Christ.

This is the message of Christmas — kings and shepherds, angels and men, rich and poor, foreigner and citizen, influential and powerless — all ALIKE in one unforgettable moment of Community in the presence of the infant Christ.

Now consider — if the Babe in the Manger was orbed with such compelling influence that He could bring together those who otherwise would have nothing to do with one another, how much more so is this possible now that He is crowned King of Kings and Lord of Lords!

The hopes and fears of all the years were once gathered and resolved in a sacred evening long ago. O Lord, do it again in our world today — for night has fallen upon us, and we need Your light to show us the way.

May the full blessings of that first Christmas be yours on this blessed day, and everyday hereafter through the remaining days of your journey!

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!
 
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E.T.Elijah

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I do have to agree with you Castaway about the "Christmas" hymns. I never associate them with just this time of year. Personally, I sing Silent Night, Holy Night, to my 2 year old twins all the time. One of my favorites is Oh Come Oh Come Emmanual. Usually have it in my head at least once or twice a month lol. I love those old first advent hymns. I actually have a cd in my car with a bunch on it that I play all year long lol.
 
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Castaway57

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I do have to agree with you Castaway about the "Christmas" hymns. I never associate them with just this time of year. Personally, I sing Silent Night, Holy Night, to my 2 year old twins all the time. One of my favorites is Oh Come Oh Come Emmanual. Usually have it in my head at least once or twice a month lol. I love those old first advent hymns. I actually have a cd in my car with a bunch on it that I play all year long lol.
I'll go for a summer drive with you anytime! lol
 
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TheOmegaMan19

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This topic is as easy to address as any other subject that involves the mixing of paganism and Christianity. The problem is, many Christians actively seek to justify Christmas, because its enjoyable to keep and hard to avoid. Plain and simple.

Do protestants have problems not praying to Mary?
...not worshipping on Sundays? (SDA)
...not accepting the Eucharist?
...not confessing sins to a man inside of a confession booth?
...not sprinkling babies in baptism?
...not participating in "Ash Wednesday"?
...etc, etc, etc..

Many Christians avoid Halloween because of its pagan origins.... Yet, Christmas is okay? Would we eat Halal meat, sacrificed to Allah first? Maybe re-dedicate it to Christ afterwards? Certainly not.

Imagine celebrating your new boyfriend's birthday. Except that you celebrate it on your ex's birthdate instead. You break out all of the bells and whistles for this new guy, show him love, and pay him undivided attention all day long. Will that matter? Or will he still be irked that you decided to honor him on your ex's day instead? Think about it.

The Laodiceans justify it as a designated day to celebrate Jesus' birth. A birth that God saw so much importance in, that He didn't give a date in the scriptures.

If we give Jesus December 25th, a birthday that belonged to Tammuz first, then WHO'S birthday is it really? We have given something to God that has been sacrificed to idols first. Like the golden calf which was made to have a feast onto YHWH. Theres proof there, alone.

No, the truth is, this is the same spirit that created the Roman Catholic Church - the guards are asleep at the door, and the guests welcome everything into the church. The smoke of Satan has crept under the door. Plain and simple. It's sunworship, and all sunworship originates in deifying the old "light bearer."

There were 3 examples of birthdays being mentioned in the bible. Two were wicked men: Pharoah and Herrod. Murder occurred in both cases. The third was Job's son. And when they went to celebrate, Job made a sacrifice unto the Lord for the sake of his children. Thats a bad thing.

Truth is, birthdays stems from sunworship, astrology, and the lifting of self, albeit only for a day. Rather than humbling oneself, the person has a sense of being the center of attention.

God's servant Solomon, states the following:

Ecclesiastes 7:1 "A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death than the day of one's birth."

We should focus on Christ's resurrection and the gift that results from that. When we die, we die having "fought the good fight." The gift becomes our to inherit then. At birth, we have many agonies ahead of us. If Christ is our example, then the bible clearly shows that we should not bother placing importance on Christ's birth. He is a man, now. And He was alive eternally before he was ever born here, anyway. No matter how sweet the sentiment is with Christmas, it belongs to Satan.

Sometimes, poison has a sweet taste. Peculiar is the keyword for us. If the world finds us to be odd, then we're heading in the right direction.
 
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Castaway57

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We should focus on Christ's resurrection and the gift that results from that. When we die, we die having "fought the good fight." The gift becomes our to inherit then. At birth, we have many agonies ahead of us. If Christ is our example, then the bible clearly shows that we should not bother placing importance on Christ's birth.
I would have to respectfully disagree on this point. Celebrating the entire life, death, and resurrection of Christ are all equally important. The Bible places none of these above or beneath the others.

I believe Isaiah 53 as well as texts in the New Testament would give you some indications of this. :)
 
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TheOmegaMan19

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I would have to respectfully disagree on this point. Celebrating the entire life, death, and resurrection of Christ are all equally important. The Bible places none of these above or beneath the others.
I believe Isaiah 53 as well as texts in the New Testament would give you some indications of this. :)

Well, Christ's date of birth was not an important detail, according to God. Birthdays in general, has its origins in ancient Egypt. Christ's life is important, because it reveals to us the character that God needs us to gain via the Holy Spirit. Jesus' death was where the debt was paid.

As far as birthdays go:

"The various customs with which people today celebrate their birthdays have a long history. Their origins lie in the realm of magic and religion. The customs of offering congratulations, presenting gifts and celebrating - complete with lighted candles - in ancient times were meant to protect the birthday celebrant from the demons and to ensure his security for the coming year. . . . Down to the fourth century Christianity rejected the birthday celebration as a pagan custom." -"Schwäbische Zeitung" (magazine supplement Zeit und Welt) of April 3/4, 1981 pg. 4

The ancient world of Egypt, Greece, Rome, and Persia celebrated the birthdays of gods, kings, and nobles. Authors Ralph and Adelin Linton reveal the underlying reason for this. In their book The Lore of Birthdays, they write: Mesopotamia and Egypt, the cradles of civilization, were also the first lands in which men remembered and honoured their birthdays. The keeping of birthday records was important in ancient times principally because a birth date was essential for the casting of a horoscope.- The Encyclopedia Americana (1991 edition)

“I have resolved from this time to make Christ first and last and best in everything. I will not sanction feasts made to celebrate birthday or marriage anniversaries, but will bend all my energies to lift up Jesus among the people. I will seek to impress upon the minds of my brethren and sisters the great necessity of preparation of heart, by confession and humiliation, to be accepted of God and acknowledged as his dear children. My heart has ached as I have seen men honored, while Jesus was neglected and almost forgotten,--liberal gifts for earthly friends, but poor and meager offerings for him to whom we owe our all.” –Signs of the Times, January 4, 1883 par. 8

Parents have not taught their children the precepts of the law as God has commanded them. They have educated them in selfish habits. They have taught them to regard their birthdays and holidays as occasions when they expect to receive gifts, and to follow the habits and customs of the world. These occasions, which should serve to increase the knowledge of God and to awaken thankfulness of heart for His mercy and love in preserving their lives for another year, are turned into occasions for self-pleasing, for the gratification and glorification of the children. They have been kept by the power of God through every moment of their life, and yet parents do not teach their children to think of this, and to express thanksgiving for His mercy toward them. ...Not only on birthdays should parents and children remember the mercies of the Lord in a special way, but Christmas and New Year's should also be seasons when every household should remember their Creator and Redeemer. Instead of bestowing gifts and offerings in such abundance on human objects, reverence, honor, and gratitude should be rendered to God, and gifts and offerings should be caused to flow in the divine channel. Would not the Lord be pleased with such a remembrance of Him? O how God has been forgotten on these occasions! . . . -Counsels on Stewardship 296



As close as we are to the arrival of our Lord and Saviour, one would think striving to perfection would be foremost upon our hearts and minds with each passing day. Any opportunity to be pulled off the path to Christ should be abhorred like the fires of Hell. If we are striving to become strong Christians that not only follow after Christ but strive to be perfect in Christ, then the following passage would be the best epitaph of our lives; if in fact we were are called to leave this fertile soil before Christ returns, and in so doing we did so with a perfected Christ like walk.
  • "A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death than the day of one's birth." Ecclesiastes 7:1
Amazing how the men of God in Scripture curse the day they are born, yet seek to be all they can be for God at the day of their death knowing doing so will warrant the best possible blessing known to man, the better resurrection. Makes perfect sense does it not? When you are born you have a lifetime of trials ahead of you that if you lack faith, may cause your eternal demise. But the day of ones death could also be a grandiose day if in fact we come to that day as did Paul wherein he declared...
  • 2 Timothy 4:6-8, "For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing."
Paul looked to the day of his death as a blessed day worthy of mention. Can you now see Satan’s fingerprints upon this so called personal holiday called birthdays? It does the exact opposite of the precious Scriptural insight we have from our Lord. Instead of seeking for an honored day of death that guarantees a “better resurrection,” the birthday ritual seeks to honor the day all men of God call cursed. One would think any day this side of eternity is cursed, with the exception of the day we came to a realization of our sinful state in need of a Saviour. If there is one thing Satan can be counted on to do is that he will always take that which is unblessed to make it appear blessed.


When we are born.. we are just starting our walk to find our way home to Heaven. Life is filled with tens of thousands of paths that are placed there by Satan to lead us away from our eternal reward. But if we strive to keep on the path that leads to Christ, the day of our death will always be a far greater day then the day of our birth. For eternal life is a far greater reward then mortal life, or any trinket accepted during this time.


I see what you're saying, though. Whatever is mentioned of Christ's life is important. But if we're talking about a point in life of where we would be in the best position, it would be at the end of our fight. The point I'm trying to make here, is that we weren't commanded to celebrate Jesus' birthday, especially on a day already reserved for a false god. Also, we shouldn't add any new customs to the scriptures. It was compromises like this that helped the little horn rise to power in 538AD.


 
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Castaway57

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Well, Christ's date of birth was not an important detail, according to God. Birthdays in general, has its origins in ancient Egypt. Christ's life is important, because it reveals to us the character that God needs us to gain via the Holy Spirit. Jesus' death was where the debt was paid.

I see what you're saying, though. Whatever is mentioned of Christ's life is important. But if we're talking about a point in life of where we would be in the best position, it would be at the end of our fight. The point I'm trying to make here, is that we weren't commanded to celebrate Jesus' birthday, especially on a day already reserved for a false god. Also, we shouldn't add any new customs to the scriptures. It was compromises like this that helped the little horn rise to power in 538AD.
There are of course a lot of things we are "not commanded to do" in life; yet there are for many of those things, principles outlined in Scripture, that would support, rather than condemn many such things - traditions some would call them.

While scripture does not mention a specific date for when Jesus was born; it is very important to recognize the many things in scripture about His birth. To some people, yes, Christmas is a very pagan thing; but to others, it definitely is not. There is nothing I know of in scripture that would condemn the latter types. I am sure that any day we decided to choose to celebrate our Savior's birth, someone would manage to find some pagan back ground to it.

Here is one text which I feel makes the birth of Jesus extremely important to understand and share with others through celebration events:
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end,
 
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TheOmegaMan19

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I pulled up some compelling information that I saved in years past, when researching the many holidays that we have - regarding the "Christmas tree" specifically..


"The Christmas tree, now so common among us, was equally common in Pagan Rome and Pagan Egypt. In Egypt it was the palm tree; in Rome it was the fir; the palm-tree denoting the Pagan Messiah, as Baal-Tamar, the fir referring to him as Baal-Berith. The mother of Adonis, the Sun-God and great mediatorial divinity, was mystically said to have been changed into a tree, and when in that state to have brought forth her divine son. If the mother was a tree, the son must have been recognized as ‘Man the Branch.’ And this entirely accounts for putting the Yule Log into the fire on Christmas Eve and the appearance of the Christmas tree the next morning. As Zero-Ashta, ‘The seed of the woman,’ ...he has to enter the fire on ‘Mother night,’ that he may be born the next day out of it, as the ‘Branch of God,’ or the Tree that brings divine gifts to men." -The Two Babylons, p. 97.


"...the divine child born at the winter solstice was born as a new incarnation of the great god (after that god had been cut in pieces...on purpose to revenge his death upon his murderers.) Now the great god, cut off in the midst of his power and glory, was symbolised as a huge tree, stripped of all his branches, and cut down almost to the ground. But the great Serpent, the symbol of the life restoring Aesculapius, twists itself around the dead stock...and lo, at its side sprouts a young tree - a tree of an entirely different kind, that is never to be cut down by a hostile power -...and thus shadowed forth the perpetuity and everlasting nature of his power, how that after having fallen before his enemies, he has risen triumphant over them all. Therefore, the 25th of December, the day that was observed in Rome as the day when the victorious god reappeared on earth was held at the Natalis invicti solis, 'The birthday of the unconquered Sun." -The Two Babylons, p. 98.


Shall we have a Christmas tree? Will it not be like the world? We answer, You can make it like the world if you have a disposition to do so, or you can make it as unlike the world as possible. -R&H 12-11-1879


"Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the ways of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good. Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O Lord; thou art great, and thy name is great in might." -JEREMIAH 10:1-6
 
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TheOmegaMan19

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I hope you are not saying that Jer 10 is talking about Christmas trees?

Well, God isn't referencing people that were keeping Christmas at that time.. It was originally used as a religious item, where people knowingly utilized it as such. Of course, (most) people today don't use it with the intentions of worshipping Baal. But the origins are definitely there. Different cultures have modified how they represent the tree throughout history, but people should be aware of it's beginning point.

I hate to say "don't do this, because..", but people should educate themselves, especially because we are the generation that has no excuses. We literally have history available at our fingertips.

One should learn for his or herself in prayer, and make an educated decision on the matter.
 
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Castaway57

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Well, God isn't referencing people that were keeping Christmas at that time.. It was originally used as a religious item, where people knowingly utilized it as such. Of course, (most) people today don't use it with the intentions of worshipping Baal. But the origins are definitely there. Different cultures have modified how they represent the tree throughout history, but people should be aware of it's beginning point.

I hate to say "don't do this, because..", but people should educate themselves, especially because we are the generation that has no excuses. We literally have history available at our fingertips.

One should learn for his or herself in prayer, and make an educated decision on the matter.
What I am wondering is why you say Jer 10 was even talking about trees of any kind?
 
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TheOmegaMan19

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What I am wondering is why you say Jer 10 was even talking about trees of any kind?

"Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the ways of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good. Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O Lord; thou art great, and thy name is great in might." -JEREMIAH 10:1-6

It's pretty self explanatory to me. Why? What's your theory?
 
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Castaway57

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"Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the ways of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good. Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O Lord; thou art great, and thy name is great in might." -JEREMIAH 10:1-6

It's pretty self explanatory to me. Why? What's your theory?
A few years ago; there was a very elderly Russian lady who attended our church. Every Christmas, she would quote this passage from jer 10 in very ominous tones to 'warn" me and my family. She was always so cute when she did it; I kind of enjoyed that little episode with her every year. But it got me to thinking; and I decided to look into this a bit one year.

So let me start my answer with a question.

Did they have "Christmas trees" in that day and age, in that part of the globe?
 
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TheOmegaMan19

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A few years ago; there was a very elderly Russian lady who attended our church. Every Christmas, she would quote this passage from jer 10 in very ominous tones to 'warn" me and my family. She was always so cute when she did it; I kind of enjoyed that little episode with her every year. But it got me to thinking; and I decided to look into this a bit one year.

So let me start my answer with a question.

Did they have "Christmas trees" in that day and age, in that part of the globe?

That's where I was trying to get at... back then, it was used in its original form. It was a religious object to the pagans. That's my beef with the whole tree thing today... yeah, it's a silly Christmas tree today, but we have to be careful that we aren't "touching the unclean thing" so we could be received. In the context of taking our own tree and fastening it in our homes, whether religiously motivated or not, comes too close for comfort for me. Despite how these trees are viewed today or not, the custom has already been sacrificed unto idols.

The pagans had many different customs, so I believe that for God to describe this specific one in detail is significant. And just like in every other deception, Satan doesn't appear in his true form, because people wouldn't give him the honor, so what better way than to take his devisings and push it close to Christ, so people take to it.

It's the same junk with Easter. We have bunnies and eggs - the symbols of fertility, when "father god" fertilizes "mother earth" with his seed (rain) and she brings forth fruits from the earth. The papacy decides to hold Easter on a Sunday, irregardless of Christ's death and resurrection...and it's documented FACT, that when Easter has fallen on Christ's actual date, the pope CHANGES THE DATE of Easter.

The papacy is antichrist. We know this. Rome is the very seat of Satan, and God tells us this, so why on earth would we want to follow ANYTHING taught by them? Each of us must thoroughly inspect his or herself, to make sure that not one hair on our head is wondering after the beast.
 
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Castaway57

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The pagans had many different customs, so I believe that for God to describe this specific one in detail is significant. And just like in every other deception, Satan doesn't appear in his true form, because people wouldn't give him the honor, so what better way than to take his devisings and push it close to Christ, so people take to it.

The papacy is antichrist. We know this. Rome is the very seat of Satan, and God tells us this, so why on earth would we want to follow ANYTHING taught by them? Each of us must thoroughly inspect his or herself, to make sure that not one hair on our head is wondering after the beast.
Jer 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
Jer 10:3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
Jer 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
Jer 10:5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
Jer 10:6 Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.

Many who wish to attack whatever church they belong to, or who wish to attack the catholic Church, (and I am not saying you are attacking any church), will take this passage out of Jeremiah and twist it around out of context to say that Jer is talking about a Christmas tree here; and that this means we should not celebrate Christmas or have a Christmas tree. They say things like "the church is defying God by having a Christmas tree.

But is Jer 10 really talking about "Christmas trees?"

1/ Jer does contains an invective against idolatry; showing its absurdity, and that the Creator alone should be worshipped by all mankind. Jer 10 is a contrast between the idols and Jehovah. I know that most of us can be agreed upon this point, including our Catholic brethren.

2/ Lets look more closely now at Jer 10 "They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."

Now why do people keep saying this is a tree of any kind let alone a Christmas tree? That makes no sense, if you let the Bible explain itself, instead of making a whole doctrine out of just one verse.

What is it they are decking with silver and gold here? Does the text suggest it is a tree; or something they make out of a tree? Certainly they did not have Christmas trees there and then, so what's actually going on? We have to let scripture speak for itself on this. To take this one verse all alone and make it say "Christmas tree," is not right, it's not sound exegesis or Biblical interpretation at all.

The text in Jer just does not say Christmas tree, so if you say thats what it's referring to you have to get that from somewhere else in the Bible in order to let the Bible speak for itself.

I think that Jer is referring to idols, as in graven images. In those days they would choose a tree made out of wood that would not rot to make the idol out of, and once the image was made, they would deck it out with silver and gold, just like it says in Jer 10.

Note:Isa 40:18 To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him?
Isa 40:19 The workman melteth a graven image, and the goldsmith spreadeth it over with gold, and casteth silver chains.
Isa 40:20 He that is so impoverished that he hath no oblation chooseth a tree that will not rot; he seeketh unto him a cunning workman to prepare a graven image, that shall not be moved.

So now we see the same description as in Jer here in Isaiah but with more details. They get a special tree that won't rot, "to make the idol out of;" and then they deck their idol, NOT THE TREE out of silver and gold. So now we see Jer is referring to the graven images the people were getting into back then, and it can be shown from the new testament what a huge monetary business this same idol making had become.

What you or I think the papacy is has nothing to do with this subject. This graven image making did not originate with them; and if you want to say that the christmas tree is their form of idolatry that we are copying, then you have a lot to prove before I could believe that. As a society, we do a lot of things that Catholics started, or that Catholics do, but if we made a list of all these things, and treated them as "idolatry;" then you would have to lock yourself up in an isolation cell and never come out again. But don't worry; us idolaters will come to feed you every day so you don't starve.

The point being, is that not everything Catholic is wrong and we need to stop demonizing them the way we do. Concerns about pagan elements in this holiday are nothing new. Controversies over Christmas go back hundreds of years. The Puritans in England actually led the English Parliament to ban Christmas for a period of time as a “popish festival with no biblical justification” and a time of wasteful and immoral behavior. Even in Colonial America there was a time (1659) when Christmas was outlawed. More recently, secular elements of society have faced off with religious groups over nativity scenes and crosses on public property.

The Bible certainly highlights the birth of Christ (Luke 3:7). It not only describes the glorious announcement of the Messiah’s birth (v. 13) but also tells of shepherds coming to worship the newborn child (v. 16). These humble worshippers were not quiet about what they saw either (v. 17). Furthermore, there is a record of wise men from the east bringing gifts to Jesus—though this likely occurred when Jesus was a toddler (Matthew 2:11). If people recognized the birth of Christ through worship and bringing gifts, perhaps there actually is something we can learn and practice from their examples.

Aside from its pagan elements, most people understand that Christmas celebrates the birth of Jesus. But in practice, people spend more time in December cruising shopping malls than studying the life of the Savior. Frosty the Snowman and Rudolf the Red-nosed Reindeer compete with wise men and shepherds for our attention. During all the bustle between “Black Friday” and Christmas Eve, materialism tends to overshadow the simple stable.

But what if Christians spent more time witnessing for Christ at Christmas or purchasing and sharing Christians resources to point people to Jesus? What would happen if more families dedicated time and money to serve the poor and advance the gospel through short-term mission service? How would our churches be strengthened if, during this holiday time, believers explored the prophecies of Christ’s first advent as well as His second advent? Perhaps our concerns about Christmas should have less to do with its pagan origins and more with its current practice.

Id hate to tell you what i do on Halloween. lol. You'd really have a hay day with that one. I would likely be labelled as "idolatrous" and called a wolf in sheeps clothing....lol, well it's actually the other way around. A sheep in wolf's clothing.

Today we have to be wise as serpents my friend, and harmless as doves, not sitting around all suspicious and scared of some Catholic demons hiding under every doily and around every corner. :)
 
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stinsonmarri

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Wow I have bee saying this all along and I have been jump on and hung out to dry. I know that there are others who have not bow their knees to Baal. Thanks OmegaMan. Same texts I gave and more love it. I hope someone will see what we see that Christmas is pagan and it is the Catholic Church holy day! Wake up SDA's before its too late!

Praying with blessings and love. :pray:
stinsonmarri
 
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stinsonmarri

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Castaway:

Response to your comment.

Many who wish to attack whatever church they belong to, or who wish to attack the catholic Church, (and I am not saying you are attacking any church), will take this passage out of Jeremiah and twist it around out of context to say that Jer is talking about a Christmas tree here; and that this means we should not celebrate Christmas or have a Christmas tree. They say things like "the church is defying God by having a Christmas tree.

Why do you feel that we are saying that the word Christmas, which means christ mass is what Jeremiah is saying? This text was talking about do not follow the way or customs the pagans do in worshipping the evergreen tree. They worship by decorating it with lights and ornaments way before the Catholic Church came up with the word Christmas. However, decorating the tree today is the same way the pagans did it in the past. The tree is a heathen custom and it is worshipped for what? What does it have to do with YAHSHUA or HIS birth? First of all the 25th of December is a lie, the name of the day is a lie, the celebration of YAHSHUA'S birth is a lie, and the decoration of the tree is in honor of Satan. He is the one who is concern about lights that he lost, his covering that he lost. So what he does is to have people in the past and now to decorate a tree that represent him. Everlasting tree because its pines don't die off in the winter. It is always green then decorate it with lights and things to celebrate him. The tree, gifts to each other, the celebration are all a farse and breaks ELOHIM Command about lying. If you would take the time you will find that every religious custom honor this day even today it is pagan. You cannot make something pagan something good you can't.

You know what's so sad people refuse to keep YAHWEH'S Holy Appointed Set Times, but they will keep the Papacy appointed set times that they attempt to call holy (holiday). What a shame and they laugh at those who they have deceived along with Satan! This whole thing is about him any ways and it appears no one gets it!

Blessings with love,
stinsonmarri
 
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TheOmegaMan19

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Wow I have bee saying this all along and I have been jump on and hung out to dry. I know that there are others who have not bow their knees to Baal. Thanks OmegaMan. Same texts I gave and more love it. I hope someone will see what we see that Christmas is pagan and it is the Catholic Church holy day! Wake up SDA's before its too late!

Praying with blessings and love. :pray:
stinsonmarri

Yeah, like I said in a previous post. Christmas is easy to follow, and hard to avoid - so people defend it. And you ever notice that Satan hides behind the children with regards to Christmas, Easter, Halloween, and birthdays? He does it for a reason. The "extremists" would break the children's hearts.
 
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Castaway57

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The tree, gifts to each other, the celebration are all a farse and breaks ELOHIM Command about lying. If you would take the time you will find that every religious custom honor this day even today it is pagan. You cannot make something pagan something good you can't.
Jeremiah is not talking about Christmas trees; neither you or any other anti-Christmas people can prove that he is. Not everything that the general public who are not Christians does is "wrong" "bad" or "pagan" and Christians who know their Bibles will not accept such lies and slander against innocent people who have done nothing wrong by celebrating Christ's birth.
 
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