Ok, so my whole life it was just know that Jesus was born on Christmas. Now I am in the middle of a bible study, and it says no, he was not born that day, but concived. I am very confussed now. 
Dianna
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Christmas
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snoochface
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The day of Christmas, December 25, has no Biblical significance. It is the day that we celebrate Jesus' birth, but it is my understanding that scholars believe he was really born sometime in April. No one knows for sure the exact day of his birth, or of his conception.
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Thank you both for responding Each time I dig into the bible I am finding new things, and things to correct things I thought. One reason I love it so much
Each time I dig into the bible I am finding new things, and things to correct things I thought. One reason I love it so much
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wow... i didnt think anyone thought that anymore...
im not making fun of you, im just surprised.
yeah i was shocked when someone proved to me that Jesus wasnt born the same night the wise men and came to him. that the whole accepted manger scene was actually not accurate...
but anyway.
im not making fun of you, im just surprised.
yeah i was shocked when someone proved to me that Jesus wasnt born the same night the wise men and came to him. that the whole accepted manger scene was actually not accurate...
but anyway.
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TheListener
Save a cow - eat a vegetarian!
The date is not certain but according to some 25th of December had some significance for pagans at the time and so Christians picked that date to counter the pagans.
This may have no accuracy at all, I read it in an editorial bashing Christians on a secular newspaper. But the fact of the matter is they may be right & it makes no difference either way.
This may have no accuracy at all, I read it in an editorial bashing Christians on a secular newspaper. But the fact of the matter is they may be right & it makes no difference either way.
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DawnTillery
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We are worshipping the Risen Savior anyways, its just nice to know that for the most part anyways, that most Christians are all in one Accord on Christmas Morning worshipping Jesus... I know some churches dont accept it and do not allow participation of celebrating Jesus birthday that day, why? I have no idea ( I attended a church like that till that December when they told me I had to take my Manger set down, I didn't go back) . IMO - again we are worshipping The Risen Savior.
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There is no hard evidence that December 25th is the birthdate of Lord Jesus Christ (or Yahushua). And His birthdate is not mentioned in the Bible anywhere. The words "concieved" or "born" mean the same thing.
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Tenorvoice
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This is not me speaking here it is form the web site www.carm.org
CHRISTIAN APOLOGETICS & RESEARCH MINISTRY
CHRISTIAN APOLOGETICS & RESEARCH MINISTRY
www.carm.org
Christmas
The word "Christmas" comes from two old words: Christes maesse. It means, "the Mass of Christ." This comes from the Catholic Mass, that practice where the priest re-offers the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross during the time of Communion.1
In the ancient Roman system of religion, Saturn was the god of agriculture. Each year during the summer, the god Jupiter would force Saturn out of his dominant position in the heavenly realm and the days would begin to shorten. In the temple to Saturn in Rome, the feet of Saturn were then symbolically bound with chains until the winter solstice when the length of days began to increase. It was this winter solstice that was a time of celebration and exchange of gifts as the hardness of winter began to wane and the days grew longer.
December 25th specifically coincided the day of the birth of the sun-god named Phyrgia a culture in the ancient Balkans.
In the Roman Empire, by the time of Christ the winter festival was known as saturnalia. The Roman Church was unable to get rid of saturnalia, so early in the 4th Century, they adopted the holiday and tried to convert it a Christian celebration of the Lord's birth. They called it the Feast of the Nativity. This custom has been part of western culture ever since.
Mistletoe was considered a curative plant and was used in many ancient medicine recipes. The Celts even believed that the plant, which is a parasite that lives on trees, contained the soul of the tree it lived on. The Druids used Mistletoe in their religious ceremonies. The Druid priests would cut it up and distribute it to the people who would place the cuttings over the doorways of their homes. This was supposed to protect the dwellers from various forms of evil.
No one knows for sure what month, not to mention which day, that Jesus was born on. Various theories have been raised that put Jesus' birth in April, October, and September. But no one knows for sure.
Additionally, our calendar is inaccurate. It set about 4 years too late. This is known by comparing the biblical accounts of gospels and the extrabiblical records known about Quirinius, the governor of Syria (Luke 2:2) and Herod the Great (Matt. 2:19) who died in 4 B.C. in the year of Jesus' birth. Humorously, that would make Jesus, born in 4 B.C.
The Christians must hold his standard of righteousness and devotion to God above those of the world. The Old Testament says that we are to worship God in truth according to the dictates that He has established (Exodus 20:1-4; 24:12-31:18). Christmas was not established by God. In addition, there are no records at all of the early church celebrating the birth of Christ.
On the other hand, there are those who say we have freedom Christ and can celebrate any day we want to. Paul says, "All things are lawful, though not all are profitable" (1 Cor. 6:12).
Should we then participate in the celebration of a festival origins and exceeding commercialism?
It is my opinion that we are free to celebrate the day. This is why.
In the Bible in 1 Cor. 10:23-33, Paul speaks about meat sacrificed to idols. This meat was often sold in the meat market and the question arose, "Should a Christian each such meat?" Paul said in verse 25, "Eat anything that is sold in the meat market, without asking questions for conscience' sake." The origins of the meat were, essentially, pagan. Many animals were raised for the purpose of sacrificing to pagan deities and their meat was offered in the market place. In reference to this Paul said it was okay to eat the meat.
Then in verses 28-29 he says, "But if anyone should say to you, 'This is meat sacrificed to idols,' do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for conscience' sake; 29I mean not your own conscience, but the other man's; for why is my freedom judged by another's conscience?" (NASB). Paul is saying that if you are with someone who might be stumbled by your eating meat that was sacrificed to idols, then don't eat it -- not because of you, but because of the other person. In other words, eating that meat won't affect you. The false gods are not real. They have no power.
1 Cor. 8:-7-9 echoes this idea. It says, "However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. 8But food will not commend us to God; we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat. 9But take care lest this liberty of yours somehow become a stumbling block to the weak." Though this passage requires a bit more examination, it still carries the sense of freedom. And, Jesus has definitely set us free.
However, if you are not comfortable with this conclusion and you don't want to celebrate Christmas, that is okay. You must answer to the Lord.
The Lord, through His sacrifice, has cleansed us of our sins. When we come in contact with Him, it was we who were cleansed. It is not Him who was made dirty. The woman with the issue of blood who touched Jesus (Mark 5:25-34) was made clean. It was not Jesus who was made dirty. Likewise Jesus touched the unclean lepers and cleansed them (Matt. 8:3). Jesus came in contact with many people and it was never Him who was dirtied. It was they who were cleansed.
I think this principle can be applied to Christmas. Yes, Christmas has pagan origins. Yes, it is a highly commercial time. Yes, many do not have their eyes on Jesus. But for the Christian it is a time to reflect upon the birth of our Lord and to celebrate. We are making the day holy.
________________
1. Because of its strong Catholic associations, Christmas was often opposed by those in the Protestant Reformation. This opposition was based largely on the belief that it contradicts the biblical teaching of the finality of the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. (Cf. Heb. 9:12, 24-26; 10:10-14).
Hope this helps keep up the studing and keep the questoins comming.
Christmas is the most popular holiday in America. Both the secular and the sacred celebrate it, but for different reasons. Some see it as the greatest business time of the year which is fueled by the exchange of gifts. Others consider it the time to celebrate the birth of Jesus. Either way, it is a very important holiday.
The word "Christmas" comes from two old words: Christes maesse. It means, "the Mass of Christ." This comes from the Catholic Mass, that practice where the priest re-offers the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross during the time of Communion.1
The Origins of Christmas
The origins of Christmas go back to before the time of Christ when many ancient cultures celebrated the changing of the seasons. In the northern hemisphere in Europe, for example, the winter solstice, which was the shortest day of the year, occurs around Dec. 25th. These celebrations were based on the decline of winter. Since during winter animals were penned, people stayed in doors, crops didn't grow, etc., to know that winter was half over and on its way out was a time of celebration.
In the ancient Roman system of religion, Saturn was the god of agriculture. Each year during the summer, the god Jupiter would force Saturn out of his dominant position in the heavenly realm and the days would begin to shorten. In the temple to Saturn in Rome, the feet of Saturn were then symbolically bound with chains until the winter solstice when the length of days began to increase. It was this winter solstice that was a time of celebration and exchange of gifts as the hardness of winter began to wane and the days grew longer.
December 25th specifically coincided the day of the birth of the sun-god named Phyrgia a culture in the ancient Balkans.
In the Roman Empire, by the time of Christ the winter festival was known as saturnalia. The Roman Church was unable to get rid of saturnalia, so early in the 4th Century, they adopted the holiday and tried to convert it a Christian celebration of the Lord's birth. They called it the Feast of the Nativity. This custom has been part of western culture ever since.
The Christmas Tree and Mistletoe
One of the symbols of the life found in the celebration of saturnalia, was the use of evergreens. These plants which stayed green all year long, were often used in different cultures as symbols of life and rebirth. They were sometime decorated as a form of worship in some cultures in religious ceremonies dealing with fertility.
Mistletoe was considered a curative plant and was used in many ancient medicine recipes. The Celts even believed that the plant, which is a parasite that lives on trees, contained the soul of the tree it lived on. The Druids used Mistletoe in their religious ceremonies. The Druid priests would cut it up and distribute it to the people who would place the cuttings over the doorways of their homes. This was supposed to protect the dwellers from various forms of evil.
What Day Was Jesus Really Born On?
No one knows for sure what month, not to mention which day, that Jesus was born on. Various theories have been raised that put Jesus' birth in April, October, and September. But no one knows for sure.
Additionally, our calendar is inaccurate. It set about 4 years too late. This is known by comparing the biblical accounts of gospels and the extrabiblical records known about Quirinius, the governor of Syria (Luke 2:2) and Herod the Great (Matt. 2:19) who died in 4 B.C. in the year of Jesus' birth. Humorously, that would make Jesus, born in 4 B.C.
Can the Christian Celebrate Christmas?
Is the Christian free to celebrate a holiday that not only has pagan origins, but also is used by the unbelieving world a promotion of commercialism? In my opinion, it depends.
The Christians must hold his standard of righteousness and devotion to God above those of the world. The Old Testament says that we are to worship God in truth according to the dictates that He has established (Exodus 20:1-4; 24:12-31:18). Christmas was not established by God. In addition, there are no records at all of the early church celebrating the birth of Christ.
On the other hand, there are those who say we have freedom Christ and can celebrate any day we want to. Paul says, "All things are lawful, though not all are profitable" (1 Cor. 6:12).
Should we then participate in the celebration of a festival origins and exceeding commercialism?
It is my opinion that we are free to celebrate the day. This is why.
In the Bible in 1 Cor. 10:23-33, Paul speaks about meat sacrificed to idols. This meat was often sold in the meat market and the question arose, "Should a Christian each such meat?" Paul said in verse 25, "Eat anything that is sold in the meat market, without asking questions for conscience' sake." The origins of the meat were, essentially, pagan. Many animals were raised for the purpose of sacrificing to pagan deities and their meat was offered in the market place. In reference to this Paul said it was okay to eat the meat.
Then in verses 28-29 he says, "But if anyone should say to you, 'This is meat sacrificed to idols,' do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for conscience' sake; 29I mean not your own conscience, but the other man's; for why is my freedom judged by another's conscience?" (NASB). Paul is saying that if you are with someone who might be stumbled by your eating meat that was sacrificed to idols, then don't eat it -- not because of you, but because of the other person. In other words, eating that meat won't affect you. The false gods are not real. They have no power.
1 Cor. 8:-7-9 echoes this idea. It says, "However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. 8But food will not commend us to God; we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat. 9But take care lest this liberty of yours somehow become a stumbling block to the weak." Though this passage requires a bit more examination, it still carries the sense of freedom. And, Jesus has definitely set us free.
However, if you are not comfortable with this conclusion and you don't want to celebrate Christmas, that is okay. You must answer to the Lord.
Sanctification
The Lord, through His sacrifice, has cleansed us of our sins. When we come in contact with Him, it was we who were cleansed. It is not Him who was made dirty. The woman with the issue of blood who touched Jesus (Mark 5:25-34) was made clean. It was not Jesus who was made dirty. Likewise Jesus touched the unclean lepers and cleansed them (Matt. 8:3). Jesus came in contact with many people and it was never Him who was dirtied. It was they who were cleansed.
I think this principle can be applied to Christmas. Yes, Christmas has pagan origins. Yes, it is a highly commercial time. Yes, many do not have their eyes on Jesus. But for the Christian it is a time to reflect upon the birth of our Lord and to celebrate. We are making the day holy.
________________
1. Because of its strong Catholic associations, Christmas was often opposed by those in the Protestant Reformation. This opposition was based largely on the belief that it contradicts the biblical teaching of the finality of the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. (Cf. Heb. 9:12, 24-26; 10:10-14).
Hope this helps
keep up the studing and keep the questoins comming.
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sandman
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The general consensus amongst scholars is that He was born in September. One study I have, has narrowed it down to September 11, 3 BC. I know what your thinking, but the findings of this research came out long before 9/11.
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Thank you all for sharing all of this information with me. I feel so stupid not knowing things, but I know as I read the Word, pray, go to church, and study that things will become more clear to me.
Dianna
Dianna
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snoochface
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Don't feel stupid - you would not believe the stuff I don't know, I constantly amaze myself, especially when I'm in a room full of life-long Christians!
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DawnTillery
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snoochface said:Don't feel stupid - you would not believe the stuff I don't know, I constantly amaze myself, especially when I'm in a room full of life-long Christians!
I hear that!!! The church I attend, majority of the members are life long Christians and im like amazed at the things they know. I am like HOW DO THEY KNOW THAT..
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Tenorvoice
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snoochface said:Don't feel stupid - you would not believe the stuff I don't know, I constantly amaze myself, especially when I'm in a room full of life-long Christians!
my sista
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AimlessEMF
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Christmas has its origins in the fourth century. December 25, which Christians now herald as Jesus' birthday, was actually the date on which the Romans celebrated the birth of the sun god.
After the Roman emperor Constantine converted to Christianity at the Milvian Bridge in 312, he sought to combine the worship of the sun god with worship of Christ. Christian leaders accepted Constantine's conversion in a positive light and saw the "Christ-mass" celebration as a vital part of the process of converting the pagan world.
From ChristianityToday
From what I can remember from my NT classes I think that most roman soldiers followed the sun deity Mitra or Mithra. Constantine did as well and we he had his battlefield conversion to christianity he tried to also solidify the Roman Empire by bringing a lot of pagan and christian things together.
I even think he tried to declare himself the 13th apostle and the high priest of all pagan religions.
After the Roman emperor Constantine converted to Christianity at the Milvian Bridge in 312, he sought to combine the worship of the sun god with worship of Christ. Christian leaders accepted Constantine's conversion in a positive light and saw the "Christ-mass" celebration as a vital part of the process of converting the pagan world.
From ChristianityToday
From what I can remember from my NT classes I think that most roman soldiers followed the sun deity Mitra or Mithra. Constantine did as well and we he had his battlefield conversion to christianity he tried to also solidify the Roman Empire by bringing a lot of pagan and christian things together.
I even think he tried to declare himself the 13th apostle and the high priest of all pagan religions.
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