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Christmas Trees might be Evil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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staticblue

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I have been told that I am way off base with this, but I’m not so sure.
I believe that God told me to look into the traditions that men have established and determine if they originate from a true love of Christ or a vain love of self/creation.
As a Christian I find it disturbing that we don’t celebrate even one of the holidays or Holy Days that God passed to the Jewish people.
This statement always brings me the same reply.
“Well…we are not bound by the law, so it’s not necessary to celebrate the days God told the Jews to celebrate.”

I’m sorry this makes no since to me at all. We are not bound by the law, but we should want to celebrate festivals that God put in place because we are his bride.
Instead, we hold on the vain traditions of men. (Most of which are carryovers of Pagan un-holidays.)
I come upon no scripture that tells me to celebrate Christmas, Easter (named after a Pagan false god), New Years Day, etc….
I come upon no scripture that tells me to put up a Christmas Tree, or anything like it.
In fact, I found one that I believe may….may…..be describing this practice in Jeremiah 10:3-5 and in context condemning it.

I also find many wonderful feasts that God gave to us in order to remember him and what he has done for us and the Jewish people in scripture.
However, we don’t celebrate even one of the days that were ordained by God himself. I would like to but don’t know how.
My whole family might string me up if I try to change our family traditions to more closely follow those that Jesus (Yeshua is his real name) observed.
I was just kicking around the idea in conversation at work, during lunch, and one lady told me that I would be abusing my children in her eyes if I did!


Jeremiah
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.


Now I’ve been told that this is referring to graven images. However, no were in the Bible do I find a description of the action “decking” when referring to graven images.
All the instances of the action to “deck” refer to clothes, jewelry, and even ornaments!
All of which can be removed from the object that was “decked”.
In contrast, every instance of a “Graven Image” in the Bible indicates that they were covered in pure gold. Also the statement about a palm tree and it’s uprightness, seems to suggest that they are very tall and thin. This is not typical of graven images that are usually of calves, or other animals.
I don’t think that description describes these types of images well.
Than there is the description in Jeremiah that the images “speak not” This description with regard to a tree is puzzling because one would not expect a tree to speak. But it could have been included in order to ride them of fear, cause let’s fact it, if you didn’t know what a Christmas Tree was and you saw it all lit up, decked with silver and Gold, and people putting presents at it’s feet. You might just begin to wonder if this crazy thing had some power or something and made these people bring it gifts as a sacrifice.

With that said I have also found in my research that there may also be some truth to the popular belief that Jeremiah was referring to wooden statues or something of the like.

Hosea 13:2 - And now they sin more and more, and have made them molten images of their silver, and idols according to their own understanding, all of it the work of the craftsmen: they say of them, Let the men that sacrifice kiss the calves.

The highlighted statement if very close to the statement made in Jeremiah.
However, this one describes the men who perform this action as craftsmen where as Jeremiah refers to the men as workmen.

So now I want go to the Hebrew to see if I can figure out if these two descriptions of types of workers are the same in an effort to tie them together.
I do not have the proper reference material to find out if these descriptions are identical.

What do you think?
Am I crazy? 
Email me your thoughts aj_hass@hotmail.com
 

Maynard Keenan

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The scripture doesnt say to celebrate Christmas or Easter but why not celebrate the birth of our savior and his resurrection? They were madr to coincide with pagan holidays so that peopel wouldnt experience too much of a culture shock moving from one belief to another. As for celebrating Jewish holidays, one can but wouldn't be required to. Heck, if you don't want to you don't have to celebrate Christmas.
 
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tulc

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First off: [pong]Welcome to CF staticblue! :clap:[/pong]

Second: If you don't want a Christmas tree don't have one. See how easy that was? :) I used to not want to have a christmas tree (someone told me that same scripture) then someone said "uhmm if you cut a tree down, decorate it and start worshiping it, then you have a problem." which made sense to me. :) But you have to follow what you think is right.
tulc(who's going to go get a tree this weekend...no really, I am! :sorry: maybe I'll take my oldest grandson! that would be cool!) ;)
 
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Gwynne

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I used to hate Christmas trees.... but that was when I was a Pagan..... :lol: Christmas trees may have pagan roots, but they have become thoroughly Christianized and their symbolism is no longer pagan. Adaptation is a good thing, and as tulc said, it's only if you start worshipping the tree that you have a problem. Here's a really good article about Christmas trees:

http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=633

And here's a link to some articles about Christmas specifically:

http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_ID=2561

Enjoy!
 
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Karl - Liberal Backslider

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If Christmas Trees have pagan roots, then clearly we should either buy ones that are cut down at the trunk, or put a tract into the pot.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Two things strike me about the OP: firstly, the Jeremiah quote is indeed out of context, and does indeed refer to idolatry. Idols are often decked with jewelry and the like, on the basis that a god likes to look his best at the temple just as much as the next being.

Secondly, it sounds like legalism - it sounds like those sorts of rules that Paul talked against - "Don't touch this, don't touch that". Paul did, though, say to not let anyone make rules for us about what days we should celebrate or anything else.
 
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Gwynne

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Karl - Liberal Backslider said:
If Christmas Trees have pagan roots, then clearly we should either buy ones that are cut down at the trunk, or put a tract into the pot.

As long as they're Chick tracts. Must make sure those Christmas trees get the correct information.
 
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Windmill

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Well, christmas trees originated with some other random culture and than romans. So yeah, it has pagan backgrounds to it. I personally don't see anything wrong with it, if the reason behind having one is soley tradition, but I guess its your own choice.
 
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RobWW

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Well, we've all heard that Christmas takes place on the date of Pagan holidays, but most Christians still celebrate it. I think it is the same way. If someone chooses to celebrate with a Christmas tree, they can if you choose not to go ahead. It's your choice. :)


-Rob
 
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Cortes

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Maynard Keenan said:
The scripture doesnt say to celebrate Christmas or Easter but why not celebrate the birth of our savior and his resurrection? They were madr to coincide with pagan holidays so that peopel wouldnt experience too much of a culture shock moving from one belief to another.
When you think about it, why should it matter when we celebrate something? I think it is more important just to celebrate it. Do you think God cares that we celebrate the birth of His Son on one day or another, when man's time is meaningless to God? I think he cares more that we understand what Jesus has done for us. So whether we celebrate it December twenty-fifth or Octobruary eleventy-first, it should not matter as long as we remember what we are celebrating.

Much love to you all
 
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wizanda

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Make sure you dress the trees correctly!!
Else your kids will tell you, the santa (God) they believe in, and pray to won't come
Many, make thier kids go along with santa, no wonder most people don't actualy believe in God, they have shatterd dreams from the childhood dreams that were lies .
We wrap presents up in plastic, so that we precondtion our self and our children to a plastic world, were plastic shiney wrapped product are not usualy the best, yet noramly the most humble are.
Instead of giving all year, most only give at christmas and only to friends.
It should be a time for oneness with all, sharing with the whole community, it has been turned into family only and friends.
Christ said invite the poor not your rich friends, so i agree with your point this has nothing to do with him
Merry cold season too you!! with plenty of bright stuff to make it feel warm!!
Happy birthday a couple of weeks ago for Christ wasn't it?
Plus St Nicholas is December the 6th , yet he gave all year round to children.
Santa has become greedy over time an lazy, no wonder he has a fat belly now, if he use to work all year and now just one day!:))
 
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Arikereba

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When I look at people saying "Eek, it's pagan! It's Satan-worship!" to talk about Christmas trees or Dungeons and Dragons or ...even the Eucharist, if you're Jack Chick... Is Satan really so powerful that he can make people worship him accidentally? Because they ascribe, or fail to ascribe, a particular meaning to something? I don't think so.
 
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Hi tulc,

I do like this (even though i make comments on it), i think it has some real truth.
When I was a conservative, I took Jesus' teaching on hell to be literal. But I took His teaching on selling everything I own in order to follow Him to be figurative.
however now i am content to imagine hell/eternal death in the ways Jesus describes it, and note that Paul says our lives our no longer our own, we are bought at a price, we have been crucified with Christ and raised with Him so we can take up our cross and follow Him. That means hell is very real whatever it is and we dont actually own anything, it belongs to God.
 
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staticblue

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Hey you guys....I just want to say...
I love you all.....God Bless you and yours!!
I appreciate every one of your views. I don't agree with all of them, but praise God we don't all think alike!

I still kind of don't like that we have not taken on more of the traditions that God handed to the Jews himself. It's like early Christians were saying...."Well, I know that God told them to celebrate that day...and in this way...but we have always celebrated this day and this way...maybe we'll just declare it to be a celebration to the Jewish God. Than we can have our cake and eat it to." It's much more comfortable that way. And we continue with this to this very day.

Keep in mind I don’t think that it's going to get you sent to Hell. But...man if we loved God half as much as we say we do we would be so concerned with the days and the celebrations that HE ESTABLISHED, that we wouldn't have time for doing things our own way.

Satan is a parasite! He lives on our excuses!

Jeremiah 10

1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: 2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

I think that we have learned the ways of the heathens (Pagans)! Worse yet we have declared their ways to be God's ways! But we refuse to learn the ways of God! We have even let them change his name in our mouths! Jesus’ real name is "Yashua"! And believe it!!!! Satan would love for us to worship our savior under the wrong name! The true name of God is "Yaway" (don't know how to spell it). The name "God" came from Pagan's too!

Etymology of the Word "God"
The word God is a relatively new European invention, which was never used in any of the ancient Judaeo-Christian scripture manuscripts that were written in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek or Latin. According to the best efforts of linguists and researchers, the root of the present word God is the Sanskrit word hu which means to call upon, invoke, implore. Nonetheless, it is also interesting to note the similarity to the ancient Persian word for God which is Khoda.


John 14:13 - And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
John 14:14 - If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
Acts 3:6 - Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

Christ is really Messias in Hebrew also!

Arikereba said:
Is Satan really so powerful that he can make people worship him accidentally? Because they ascribe, or fail to ascribe, a particular meaning to something?
I think it possible that Satan just likes to create as much confusion as possible so that we don't know what God has done. The celebrations set forth by God are there to help us remember what he has done for first the Jews and now for us. Hmm...wonder why Satan would want us to change those traditions. Christmas has become a joke! It's all about consumerism! We don't even know how to celebrate the feasts that God ordained. Major monkey wrench!
Let's at least not let them turn "Merry Christmas" into "Happy Holidays" or "Seasons Greetings" everywhere we go, and let's make sure that we never forget what we declared this day a celebration of! We are God's people. Let's act like it! We are not just consumers!

If you have a Christmas Tree than have it to the praise and honor of God, not praise and honor of self, or money, or gifts, or even family.

God Bless you all! Merry CHRISTMAS!
 
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FaithAlone

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Romans 14:4-13: "Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own Master he stands or falls. Indeed, He will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it...
 
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D

Dukey

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staticblue said:
I have been told that I am way off base with this, but I’m not so sure.
I believe that God told me to look into the traditions that men have established and determine if they originate from a true love of Christ or a vain love of self/creation.
As a Christian I find it disturbing that we don’t celebrate even one of the holidays or Holy Days that God passed to the Jewish people.
This statement always brings me the same reply.
“Well…we are not bound by the law, so it’s not necessary to celebrate the days God told the Jews to celebrate.”

I’m sorry this makes no since to me at all. We are not bound by the law, but we should want to celebrate festivals that God put in place because we are his bride.
Instead, we hold on the vain traditions of men. (Most of which are carryovers of Pagan un-holidays.)
I come upon no scripture that tells me to celebrate Christmas, Easter (named after a Pagan false god), New Years Day, etc….
I come upon no scripture that tells me to put up a Christmas Tree, or anything like it.
In fact, I found one that I believe may….may…..be describing this practice in Jeremiah 10:3-5 and in context condemning it.

I also find many wonderful feasts that God gave to us in order to remember him and what he has done for us and the Jewish people in scripture.
However, we don’t celebrate even one of the days that were ordained by God himself. I would like to but don’t know how.
My whole family might string me up if I try to change our family traditions to more closely follow those that Jesus (Yeshua is his real name) observed.
I was just kicking around the idea in conversation at work, during lunch, and one lady told me that I would be abusing my children in her eyes if I did!


Jeremiah
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.


Now I’ve been told that this is referring to graven images. However, no were in the Bible do I find a description of the action “decking” when referring to graven images.
All the instances of the action to “deck” refer to clothes, jewelry, and even ornaments!
All of which can be removed from the object that was “decked”.
In contrast, every instance of a “Graven Image” in the Bible indicates that they were covered in pure gold. Also the statement about a palm tree and it’s uprightness, seems to suggest that they are very tall and thin. This is not typical of graven images that are usually of calves, or other animals.
I don’t think that description describes these types of images well.
Than there is the description in Jeremiah that the images “speak not” This description with regard to a tree is puzzling because one would not expect a tree to speak. But it could have been included in order to ride them of fear, cause let’s fact it, if you didn’t know what a Christmas Tree was and you saw it all lit up, decked with silver and Gold, and people putting presents at it’s feet. You might just begin to wonder if this crazy thing had some power or something and made these people bring it gifts as a sacrifice.

With that said I have also found in my research that there may also be some truth to the popular belief that Jeremiah was referring to wooden statues or something of the like.

Hosea 13:2 - And now they sin more and more, and have made them molten images of their silver, and idols according to their own understanding, all of it the work of the craftsmen: they say of them, Let the men that sacrifice kiss the calves.

The highlighted statement if very close to the statement made in Jeremiah.
However, this one describes the men who perform this action as craftsmen where as Jeremiah refers to the men as workmen.

So now I want go to the Hebrew to see if I can figure out if these two descriptions of types of workers are the same in an effort to tie them together.
I do not have the proper reference material to find out if these descriptions are identical.

What do you think?
Am I crazy? 
Email me your thoughts aj_hass@hotmail.com
well for one thing....christmas trees seem to get a lot more attention than jesus does on christmas....so what does that tell you?
 
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