Christians, your feelings about non-Christians on CF?

[cloudyday2]

I would offer maybe Ali was the Elijah to Muhammad.

He was verbally appointed to succeed Muhammad but was pushed aside as many thought he was to young. Thus the Islam Faith was split immediately. This is foretold in Revelation 11 where the Two Witnesses are as dead bodies laying in the street.

It seems like the herald must come before the other. So Muhammad would need to be the herald for Ali if it follows that template.

I suppose what this demonstrates is that the template of a herald preceding a promised person is a dud.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

It seems like the herald must come before the other. So Muhammad would need to be the herald for Ali if it follows that template.

I suppose what this demonstrates is that the template of a herald preceding a promised person is a dud.

I always prefer to just realise I need to study more.

Christ said Elijah always comes first.

As such, we need to understand how that can be so.

Regards Tony

 

[carp614]

Disclaimer - I decided to respond without reading 10 pages of responses, so if I'm off topic...well ok then.
I think it's good to have people on the boards who are not Christian, including those whose purpose is to be here to challenge the Christian Faith. It is beneficial for one's faith to be tested in this way and presents non-believers with an opportunity to interact with Christians that might not otherwise be possible.

For example, I see a lot of people here are don't feel comfortable in the four walls of a church for a truly dizzying array of reasons. They come here and say what's on their minds and get discussions they want to have, but feel like they can't have face to face with people. I think that is a great thing.

Maybe no one changes their mind. Maybe not one person dedicates their lives to Jesus because of what is on this board. After all this is the internet, where people go to disagree. But that doesn't mean it isn't worth trying.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

It seems like the herald must come before the other. So Muhammad would need to be the herald for Ali if it follows that template.

I suppose what this demonstrates is that the template of a herald preceding a promised person is a dud.

I always prefer to just realise I need to study more.

Christ said Elijah always comes first.

As such, we need to understand how that can be so.

Regards Tony

Well what do you know, I had previously read about Moses and Muhammad and their Elijah. Baha'u'llah says for each revelation that a star in the visible heaven and the invisible heaven always precedes a Message from God through His chosen Messenger. In the visible heaven it is a star like heralded Jesus and in the Invisible Heaven

For Abraham;

"Among the Prophets was Abraham, the Friend of God. Ere He manifested Himself, Nimrod dreamed a dream. Thereupon, he summoned the soothsayers, who informed him of the rise of a star in the heaven. Likewise, there appeared a herald who announced throughout the land the coming of Abraham."

For Moses;

"After Him came Moses, He Who held converse with God. The soothsayers of His time warned Pharaoh in these terms: “A star hath risen in the heaven, and lo! it foreshadoweth the conception of a Child Who holdeth your fate and the fate of your people in His hand.” In like manner, there appeared a sage who, in the darkness of the night, brought tidings of joy unto the people of Israel, imparting consolation to their souls, and assurance to their hearts. To this testify the records of the sacred books."

For Jesus - Most know this story here.

For Muhammad;

"Likewise, ere the beauty of Muḥammad was unveiled, the signs of the visible heaven were made manifest. As to the signs of the invisible heaven, there appeared four men who successively announced unto the people the joyful tidings of the rise of that divine Luminary. Rúz-bih, later named Salmán, was honored by being in their service. As the end of one of these approached, he would send Rúz-bih unto the other, until the fourth who, feeling his death to be nigh, addressed Rúz-bih saying: “O Rúz-bih! when thou hast taken up my body and buried it, go to Ḥijáz for there the Daystar of Muḥammad will arise. Happy art thou, for thou shalt behold His face!”

For Bab and Baha'u'llah

"And now concerning this wondrous and most exalted Cause(For the Bab). Know thou verily that many an astronomer hath announced the appearance of its star in the visible heaven. Likewise, there appeared on earth Aḥmad and Káẓim, those twin resplendent lights—may God sanctify their resting-place! The Bab was Elijah for Baha'u'llah.

Thanks, now I will not forget that.

Regards Tony

 

[DennisTate]

I can offer another thought on your quoted passages and why Persia is also mentioned in the Bible.

I see the two leaved Gates that will not be shut could be the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

The Bab (Gate) prepared the way for Baha'u'llah (Glory of God) and both came from Persia to subdue the Nations.

Baha'u'llah was banished to Israel. Mt Carmel where Elijah's cave is, now has the Bab buried upon, the Elijah of this age. The arc of God's covenant is now built on Mt Carmel, thus literal fulfillment of many prophecies have unfolded.

Regards Tony

Interesting indeed!!!!

I ran into something else on the two leaved gates a few months back and I will now try to wrack my brain as to where that was????/

 

[DennisTate]

I always prefer to just realise I need to study more.

Christ said Elijah always comes first.

As such, we need to understand how that can be so.

Regards Tony

Would you say that in a sense King David may have played an Elijah role for his son King Solomon?

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Would you say that in a sense King David may have played an Elijah role for his son King Solomon?

I see Elijah and Christ are of the Spirit. Not a worldly King.

Regards Tony

 

[hopperace]

There are some non-Christians members on CF who have no interest in converting to Christianity but enjoy the conversations here. As a non-Christian member, I sometimes feel that the many moderators and members would like me to go away. I bought a lifetime membership several years ago, but I wouldn't want to hang around at CF thinking I am adding value to the conversations when maybe I am only an irritant. It is easy to misunderstand or overlook the feelings of others when typing on keyboards.

The forums where non-Christians can participate are called "outreach" forums, and I suppose that "outreach" might not include conversations with people who have shown no interest in conversion over years of membership.

So I was curious what Christians members honestly feel about that.

I go way back on the site, though not much of a contributing member these days. I'm a conservative Christian in the Reformed tradition, for what that's worth, and connected to the site's formative years (reaching back to publisher Tyndale House's Left Behind Message Board, through King's Tavern and their bulking up Dr. Loh's original CF. His vision had been to unite all claiming the name Christian on one site and allow for considerable interaction with non-believers and those of other faiths under Christian administration. It ran into overwhelming difficulties for the owner at that time, who sold the site.

CF is now but a shell of what it was in those days, but I liked that early vision. Non-Christians have met with more severe restrictions since then, where I worked beside several of them on many CF features that drew throngs to the site. I'd like to think there's enough of that core memory here to still welcome you as a valued contributor. LOL, I proved to be as much an unintended irritant as any of the non-believers around in those days - was even booted from staff and banned from the site for a while. It saddens me still that non-Christians may be personally relegated to a lower class or status, though, just as in days of yore, it's understandable that the aim is for Christian beliefs and values to be the site's mission statement and governing principle. I would hope that would still allow for you to find a welcoming place here.

 

[Starcomet]

I go way back on the site, though not much of a contributing member these days. I'm a conservative Christian in the Reformed tradition, for what that's worth, and connected to the site's formative years (reaching back to publisher Tyndale House's Left Behind Message Board, through King's Tavern and their bulking up Dr. Loh's original CF. His vision had been to unite all claiming the name Christian on one site and allow for considerable interaction with non-believers and those of other faiths under Christian administration. It ran into overwhelming difficulties for the owner at that time, who sold the site.

CF is now but a shell of what it was in those days, but I liked that early vision. Non-Christians have met with more severe restrictions since then, where I worked beside several of them on many CF features that drew throngs to the site. I'd like to think there's enough of that core memory here to still welcome you as a valued contributor. LOL, I proved to be as much an unintended irritant as any of the non-believers around in those days - was even booted from staff and banned from the site for a while. It saddens me still that non-Christians may be personally relegated to a lower class or status, though, just as in days of yore, it's understandable that the aim is for Christian beliefs and values to be the site's mission statement and governing principle. I would hope that would still allow for you to find a welcoming place here.

Indeed, I have been around before the site's new administration and I liked how more open it was without abandoning the fact that it is still a Christian site. All those who affirmed they were Christian were accepted and discussion between denominations and non-Christians were encouraged.