Christians, your feelings about non-Christians on CF?

FireDragon76

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Thanks, your comment is a great example of an issue that I was having trouble organizing and expressing: it isn't only the items of faith that distinguish religions but also the IMPORTANCE given to those items. For example, BEHAVIORALLY there is almost no difference between a earnest Christian and an earnest Mormon. Why is behavior a SUPERFICIAL similarity? Many religions would view behavior as fundamental.

The demons Jesus exorcises in the gospels apparently know his full identity, but that knowing this doesn't make the demons reconciled with God. Paul in the Book of Romans speaks of gentiles who instinctively know and seek to obey the fundamentals of God's Law without knowing anything about Judaism and can be reconciled with God in spite of their ignorance.

Of course speaking of behavior as the fundamental trait of religion raises red flags for Christians who do not want to forget that their salvation is an undeserved gift from Jesus. However, the behavior desired by God is not necessarily perfect obedience to the letter of some law code. Rather, the behavior is to recognize that you desperately need to be reconciled with God to be complete, and that this reconciliation is worth far more than anything you might need to pay.

Behavior does matter, but not because it justifies us before God. But that still doesn't mean we don't have the right to distinguish heresy from truth, and insist upon orthodox doctrine.

My church allows women and gays to be called as ministers, Mormons do not. My religion does not support discrimination, Mormons are notorious for pressuring governments to do so. Our beliefs about God make differences, because theology shapes anthropology.
 
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Tony Bristow-Stagg

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I have a family to support Tony so I ain't getting slept by no punk in no situation ......as a christian I aspire to be Christlike but as s human I know my limitations

That is our choice we must make, if the situation arises. We can choose our reaction and its serverity.

This is where we can also learn from the Message Muhammad gave. It was allowable to partake of self defense, thus I see you support that aspect. Muhammad also taught submission to Gods Will for us. Christ told if a time to come when we would no longer take up the sword, but instead plow the ground.

God gives to and looks after all. I see God is in control of the situation, that God does know best and gives and witholds as is required for our spiritual growth.

Everyone on this planet is loved for and cared for by God. If we live for the flesh, then we must be born again into the Spirit. It is the Spirit that gives life.

Regards Tony
 
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Tony Bristow-Stagg

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Jesus HIMSELF is the salvation - not the KNOWLEDGE of Jesus.

This is a big subject, but the thought here is that If we say Jesus is the Lamp of Salvation, then the light that shines from Jesus is the Word, or the Knowledge.

Thus one can have many of the attributes of the Lamp, but what is any Lamp without the light?

There is a talk by Abdul'baha, son of Baha'u'llah, on the 5 levels of Spirit that are the light given from the Lamp of Christ. We have been told that Humanity is created at the end of darkness with all the potential of light within us, a potential that has to be released. Like an old Persian Mystic poem;

"Split the atom’s heart, and lo!
Within it thou wilt find a sun."

Thus it is important to find the source of that light that is within us all.

Regards Tony
 
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Tony Bristow-Stagg

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My church allows women and gays to be called as ministers, Mormons do not. My religion does not support discrimination, Mormons are notorious for pressuring governments to do so. Our beliefs about God make differences,

Thus what does the Word of God say as given by Christ. Are we allowed to make a religion by adding to that Word?

I see we were to follow that advice as a united people, until Christ fulfilled the Covernant made by God.

Regards Tony
 
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cloudyday2

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Why is it important to know the identity of the God one worships and follows, or which God is the real one? Really?
I didn't understand that last sentence, but I also had a thought to mention:
You probably see the uniqueness and supremacy of Jesus of Nazareth as an important item of Christian faith that is absent in Baha'i. Christians believe that Jesus is the "Son of Man"/"Son of God"/"Christ", and Bahai's believe that Jesus is a Manifestation of God. In the Old Testament there is the Angel of God that many people understand to be early appearances of God on Earth. Christians believe in a Second Coming of Jesus in a new post-resurrection spiritual body. Christ can appear multiple times in history in different types of bodies, so does this mean that there is more than one Christ? There is only one God, so isn't the divine aspect of any Manifestation of God a single thing appearing multiple times?

So if we identify Christ as Jesus of Nazareth, then Muhammad and Baha'u'llah seem to be distinct and fraudulent Christs. However, if we identify Christ as the ESSENCE of Jesus of Nazareth then Muhammad and Baha'u'llah can be thought of as later appearances of essentially the same Christ, and this way of thinking about Christ is already present in Christianity.
 
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FireDragon76

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So if we identify Christ as Jesus of Nazareth, then Muhammad and Baha'u'llah seem to be distinct and fraudulent Christs. However, if we identify Christ as the ESSENCE of Jesus of Nazareth then Muhammad and Baha'u'llah can be thought of as later appearances of essentially the same Christ, and this way of thinking about Christ is already present in Christianity.

That's not compatible with any form of orthodox Christian teaching. Christ is true God and true man, not merely an essence. He was an actual, concrete person, not a substance or essence.
 
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Albion

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The key here is that I do not see a different God. You have chosen that path.
That's right. I am willing to acknowledge that we follow different Gods. But it is not as though I prefer it to be that way.
 
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Albion

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I didn't understand that last sentence, but I also had a thought to mention:
You probably see the uniqueness and supremacy of Jesus of Nazareth as an important item of Christian faith that is absent in Baha'i. Christians believe that Jesus is the "Son of Man"/"Son of God"/"Christ", and Bahai's believe that Jesus is a Manifestation of God. In the Old Testament there is the Angel of God that many people understand to be early appearances of God on Earth. Christians believe in a Second Coming of Jesus in a new post-resurrection spiritual body. Christ can appear multiple times in history in different types of bodies, so does this mean that there is more than one Christ? There is only one God, so isn't the divine aspect of any Manifestation of God a single thing appearing multiple times?
God can and has appeared to men in different ways, but that does not mean that Jesus is the Father--he clearly said that he was not. Therefore, it is not the case that Jesus is of God or from God or knew God or something else less than God himself. And to think that anything less is what he was all about is to miss the whole meaning of God becoming one of us, dying, and triumphing over death as he did.

So if we identify Christ as Jesus of Nazareth, then Muhammad and Baha'u'llah seem to be distinct and fraudulent Christs.
Oh, I wouldn't say that. Mohammad was just a man as was Baha'u'llah. Neither claimed to be God, but Jesus did.
 
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Tony Bristow-Stagg

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That's right. I am willing to acknowledge that we follow different Gods. But it is not as though I prefer it to be that way.

I hope your preference is granted much clarity.

Regards Tony
 
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Robban

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Something similar appears in Lamentations 3:30.

but no right or left cheek,
if not for the word, smiter, there does seem to be an enemy or adversary involved.

Nachmanides explains the above that mild suffering in this World can save one from severe judgement in the coming World.

(in his introduction to his commentary on the book of Job)

There are different meanings,

One is,
if a righteous or wiser person corrects you,
recieve it with thanks and turn the other cheek to recieve more.
 
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Robban

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Something similar appears in Lamentations 3:30.

but no right or left cheek,
if not for the word, smiter, there does seem to be an enemy or adversary involved.

Nachmanides explains the above that mild suffering in this World can save one from severe judgement in the coming World.

(in his introduction to his commentary on the book of Job)

There are different meanings,

One is,
if a righteous or wiser person corrects you,
recieve it with thanks and turn the other cheek to recieve more.

Psalms 141:5,

Let the righteous one strike me with kindness and let him rebuke me,
like the finest oil, let my head not refuse it.
 
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DennisTate

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There are some non-Christians members on CF who have no interest in converting to Christianity but enjoy the conversations here. As a non-Christian member, I sometimes feel that the many moderators and members would like me to go away. I bought a lifetime membership several years ago, but I wouldn't want to hang around at CF thinking I am adding value to the conversations when maybe I am only an irritant. It is easy to misunderstand or overlook the feelings of others when typing on keyboards.

The forums where non-Christians can participate are called "outreach" forums, and I suppose that "outreach" might not include conversations with people who have shown no interest in conversion over years of membership.

So I was curious what Christians members honestly feel about that.

I personally find that many of my discussions over the years with Agnostics can have an objectivity and be of a nature that I simply cannot have with more than ninety percent of Christians.

For example..... this idea somewhat offends many Orthodox Christians:
Where did Intelligence begin, in matter or fundamental energy?


One of the most ethical human beings according to the Jewish Bible... was ancient King Cyrus of Persia who was NOT Jewish........ so in our time period many Agnostics, Atheists and non-Christians can accomplish astonishing things for our Creator....... and even be led by the RIGHT HAND by the Creator...... in spite of not being a part of one of our favourite denominations of Christianity.

Isaiah 45
1 Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:

3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the Lord, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

5 ¶ I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
 
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Starcomet

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I may not be considered a Christian by the site anymore, but I do feel that having non-Christians on the site can help with interfaith and ecumenical discussions. Besides, this is my replacement for beliefnet :) when I joinedseveral years ago.
 
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Aldebaran

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I may not be considered a Christian by the site anymore, but I do feel that having non-Christians on the site can help with interfaith and ecumenical discussions. Besides, this is my replacement for beliefnet :) when I joinedseveral years ago.

I agree that having non Christians here is a good thing. A very good thing, in fact. It makes it possible for them to ask questions and for Christians to witness to them. Otherwise, we're just a bunch of Christians talking to each other. Of course, the ones who are only here to be troublemakers can be a pain, but the fact that they're here is still a reason for optimism.
 
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Dirk1540

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There are some non-Christians members on CF who have no interest in converting to Christianity but enjoy the conversations here. As a non-Christian member, I sometimes feel that the many moderators and members would like me to go away.
HAHAHA

I’d hate to seem lazy by not reading the rest, but if I kept reading it may have ruined the good laugh that that just gave me lol. (Hello Cloudy! Long time no talk!)
 
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Tony Bristow-Stagg

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I personally find that many of my discussions over the years with Agnostics can have an objectivity and be of a nature that I simply cannot have with more than ninety percent of Christians.

For example..... this idea somewhat offends many Orthodox Christians:
Where did Intelligence begin, in matter or fundamental energy?


One of the most ethical human beings according to the Jewish Bible... was ancient King Cyrus of Persia who was NOT Jewish........ so in our time period many Agnostics, Atheists and non-Christians can accomplish astonishing things for our Creator....... and even be led by the RIGHT HAND by the Creator...... in spite of not being a part of one of our favourite denominations of Christianity.

Isaiah 45
1 Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:

3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the Lord, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

5 I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

I can offer another thought on your quoted passages and why Persia is also mentioned in the Bible.

I see the two leaved Gates that will not be shut could be the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

The Bab (Gate) prepared the way for Baha'u'llah (Glory of God) and both came from Persia to subdue the Nations.

Baha'u'llah was banished to Israel. Mt Carmel where Elijah's cave is, now has the Bab buried upon, the Elijah of this age. The arc of God's covenant is now built on Mt Carmel, thus literal fulfillment of many prophecies have unfolded.

Regards Tony
 
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