Christians: why do you engage in discussions with atheists?

[AV1611VET]

I don't believe that God is a doctrine,

Neither do I.

... though many have tried to put Him into one.

Oh.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why do so many Christians hide in a No-atheists forum while they discuss atheists and evolution with the choir?

To recharge our batteries.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

You'd rather live in a room, than a mansion!?

Oh, a mansion! However, though that is a possible meaning for the word, it doesn't make sense in context. I read an article about choosing word definitions from a list and how it can get you in trouble when you let predetermined biases help you make your choice.:

Imagine you are given the task to translate a fictional book to english, and the language in which it is written has a noun that can mean either Key or Elephant. And there is a line in the book you must translate that in essence said "the person slid the [noun] under the door". Do you say Key, or Elephant. Of course you say "key". But often people who have a beloved belief about the bible might use the word "elephant" if it preserves their belief. I think houses have rooms, not "mansions".

And another example is people who want to teach that Mary died a virgin make the argument that whenever the bible talks of Jesus' brothers, they want to interpret it to be "cousins". Or maybe it's elephants. I forget.

Why do they choose the twisted definition? We both know why. If it is brothers, it destroys Mary's virginity as fast as Joseph did after Jesus was born.

 

[Astrid]

Google Image Result for https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/square/public/d8/yp/images/8ae6fce8-c3d6-11e9-ad8c-27551fb90b051200x800111729.jpg?itok=p9biIvg-

images.app.goo.gl

 

[Reasonably Sane]

Google Image Result for https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/square/public/d8/yp/images/8ae6fce8-c3d6-11e9-ad8c-27551fb90b051200x800111729.jpg?itok=p9biIvg-

images.app.goo.gl

The only thing missing in that sign is the word "happy".

BTW. if you have the windows snipping tool on your computer you can just drag a four sided shape into your screen and it will take a snapshot of that area, then you can simply paste it in a post, like I did below:

 

[AV1611VET]

Oh, a mansion! However, though that is a possible meaning for the word, it doesn't make sense in context. I read an article about choosing word definitions from a list and how it can get you in trouble when you let predetermined biases help you make your choice.:

Did Moses cross the Red Sea, or the Sea of Reeds?

And another example is people who want to teach that Mary died a virgin make the argument that whenever the bible talks of Jesus' brothers, they want to interpret it to be "cousins".

What's the difference between that, and saying "mansion" means "room"?

 

[Larniavc]

It’s a distinction that needs to be made, though.

Think about it this way. Think of the gods of the Hindu faith and Shinto faith. From your perspective neither of them exist so the nuances of their differences from each other is irrelevant.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Fact is, you let him in not because of what he's going to do to you if you don't, but because of what LIFE is going to do to you if you don't follow the author of life - and you choose to nurture a personal relationship with your creator that will overflow into your relationships with your fellow men.

I would even change that.

You let him in not because of what he's going to do to you if you don't, but because of what LIFE can become for you when you do. New life! Not just up there somewhere in the future, but here now in its fullness with a deeper joy and peace that cannot be knbown anyother way.

To the unbeliever, No... Maybe. From newscientist.com

Conscious
You ask: Is the universe conscious? The answer depends on what is meant by “conscious”. If the definition is an operational one, the question can be settled by observation and experiment. If not, well, you can play more or less interesting semantic games

I think the nominal -ness suffix in “consciousness” has misled a lot of thinkers, me included. A -ness word refers to an entity or to a trait. It doesn’t refer to a process or event. Yet (after much thought) it seems obvious to me that any investigation into consciousness must begin with the observation that it exists only while it is happening. Like rain. Or a thought. Or a life

This is how the universe has become conscious
When it comes to our “cosmic perspective”, there is one aspect of our existence that I find deeply significant. We are composed of matter and energy that has become capable of thinking about and describing matter and energy. Thus, through us and any other technologically advanced beings that may exist, matter/energy – and, by extension, the universe – has become consciously aware of itself. I find this very profound

the-universe-is-built-a-lot-like-a-giant-brain-so-is-it-conscious/
For some physicists, this likeness is too tempting to ignore. Some have even suggested the possibility that the universe “thinks” or is in some sense conscious, an idea with roots in the philosophy of panpsychism.

Traditionally, researchers explained consciousness in one of two ways. Materialists say matter is all there is and consciousness – somehow – emerges from it. Dualists say there are fundamentally two kinds of stuff: matter stuff and consciousness stuff. Much ink has been spilled on the shortcoming of both ideas. For instance, how exactly does consciousness arise from pure matter?

Panpsychism
For some, panpsychism offers an elegant middle way. It says that consciousness is a fundamental ingredient of reality, that all matter, including particles, has some form of very basic consciousness. This arguably makes it easier to see how you could explain the way human-level consciousness arises – in the sense that the brain is already built from more basic units of consciousness. “It’s definitely having a moment,” says philosopher Joanna Leidenhag, who studies panpsychism at the University of Leeds in the UK.

It is an extension of this concept, called “cosmopsychism”, that posits the universe is conscious. For his part, Vazza is unimpressed by the idea, on multiple levels. “Consciousness is already something we can’t define, so it’s pretty weird to attribute it to the universe,” he says. The motivation for his study was more to understand how complex networks organise themselves. Plus, just because two things have the same structure doesn’t mean they have the same character. A living brain and a dead brain, after all, are organised in the same way. On top of that, the universe is so vast that it would take eons for even light-speed signals to traverse the cosmos: if it does “think”, it does so extremely slowly.

Interesting points there. So much is indeterminable right now. You say, "Yet (after much thought) it seems obvious to me that any investigation into consciousness must begin with the observation that it exists only while it is happening. Like rain. Or a thought. Or a life." I thought you might be suggesting a Process Theology. That is what I am exploring these days. Tracy, Hartshorne, even de Chardin.

 

[d taylor]

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About the only place i know i am addressing an atheist is on this website.

If i do talk to people in just everyday life, like at a grocery store, etc.. the conservation of what they believe does not come up, unless they were to bring it up. Now if i am going out for the purpose of telling people how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life and i come across a person who states they are an atheist. If they want to here the message of Life, i will tell them, if they do not i move on.

 

[Hammster]

Think about it this way. Think of the gods of the Hindu faith and Shinto faith. From your perspective neither of them exist so the nuances of their differences from each other is irrelevant.

Yes. But that’s not what we are talking about.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

Did Moses cross the Red Sea, or the Sea of Reeds?



What's the difference between that, and saying "mansion" means "room"?

The thing is that even when the word "mansion" was used in the KJV, it didn't mean to readers at the time what it means to readers today. That's touches one of the problems I have with the KJV. It's a form of english that is not in use today and people can misunderstand word meanings as they change over the centuries.

Check out strong's 3438: Strong's Greek: 3438. μονή (moné) -- an abiding, an abode

 

[Reasonably Sane]

I would even change that.

You let him in not because of what he's going to do to you if you don't, but because of what LIFE can become for you when you do. New life! Not just up there somewhere in the future, but here now in its fullness with a deeper joy and peace that cannot be knbown anyother way.

Yep. That says it even better.

 

[BCP1928]

Did Moses cross the Red Sea, or the Sea of Reeds?



What's the difference between that, and saying "mansion" means "room"?

It hardly seems to make any difference.

 

[AV1611VET]

The thing is that even when the word "mansion" was used in the KJV, it didn't mean to readers at the time what it means to readers today.

Please interpret this for me from their perspective ... thanks.

Genesis 6:14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.

 

[AV1611VET]

It hardly seems to make any difference.

Wow!

No difference?

Sea of Reeds: 4 feet deep

Red Sea: 1610 feet deep

Difference: 1606 feet

(Watch those decimal places; they're tricky!)

 

[BCP1928]

Please interpret this for me from their perspective ... thanks.

Genesis 6:14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.

Is that a critical question from the standpoint of doctrine? Or what? This is a thread asking the question of why Christians want to discuss issues of the day with atheists. Is that why you come to these forums? To discuss with atheists why other Christians' doctrines are wrong?

 

[Neogaia777]

If you truly want to reach atheists or agnostics, then you have to try things like this with them like I did here in this thread (below) that got closed.

Exodus evidence (part 2 updated)

Could you, Please, read the statement of purpose for this, the PHYSICAL SCIENCE forum, and abide by it? That would be very good advise for you to follow. I am glad you were able to point that out. You should also read the section on how to show respect for others.

www.christianforums.com

This is post #120, but began with post #111 & #112 and then #120, and then finshed up with posts #120 & #121 & #123 after it.

God Bless.

 

[Astrid]

Is that a critical question from the standpoint of doctrine? Or what? This is a thread asking the question of why Christians want to discuss issues of the day with atheists. Is that why you come to these forums? To discuss with atheists why other Christians' doctrines are wrong?

The squad cannot be satisfied w/o butting
in with their agenda to derail, spoil, and get the thread closed.

Whether that is Christian ethics could be discussed.

Is it?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Faith is a work of God in us. It is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Are you saying they were bearing fruit and now they are dead? So you do not believe God is able to keep those who are saved?

Yes, I'm saying that I believe people can walk away from the Christian Faith even after being within the circumference of Christ's embrace, and they do it every day.

You're a Methodist, surely you already know that even John Wesley didn't think that salvation was a 100% guaranteed promise, no matter what, right?

Apostasy in Christianity - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[2PhiloVoid]

In the "other" spiritual paths, many there are also ex-Christians. Please include me in that group.

Personally, I'm not keeping tabs about each persons claimed "identity." To do so would go against my Christian principles.