Christians: why do you engage in discussions with atheists?

[Astrid]

My approach is Just Love. That's it.

What is "love", iyo?
I am perplexed by how westerners use this word.

We've nothing equivalent.

" Love ar first sight" for example.
Its so absurdly contradictory.!

" Love neighbour as"..."love everyone",
same.

We are very family- oriented, but we dont say
" I love you". We show it with what we do.

And the feeling for family, those outside family but of long
acquaintance and trust, that is impossible to
extend to everyone.

What is this " love" you speak of? Of what value is it?

 

[Astrid]

Both the Mormons and the Calvinist's believe that it was God's plan for Adam and Eve to sin and be disobedient. If they knew God they would know He cannot do anything contrary to Himself. Even you say God is all powerful, yet He can not lie, cheat, steal and so on.

Iyo not all powerful.

 

[dlamberth]

What is this " love" you speak of? Of what value is it?

Love is one of those things that make us a more human, Human Being. There is much value in that.

 

[dlamberth]

A Mormon who is saved would be saved in spite of his doctrine.

I don't believe that God is a doctrine, though many have tried to put Him into one.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

Many atheists today in the U.S. are ex-Christians coming out of fundamentalist or evangelical churches. So, a number of them are familiar with the concept of faith. It's just that they've disowned it.

May I suggest that what they are, really, is agnostics. And I'll throw this out as well: I used to talk to a lot of ex-Christians on a certain site and in every single case - and I mean every single one - as they list their problems with Christianity I would finally say to them, "It sounds like the thing you have a problem with is not Christianity but Catholicism". Every time they admitted they were ex-Catholic.

I don't mean to beat up on Catholics, specifically. Rather, I've found that most people that leave the church are being put off by things taught that are not really taught by the bible, but by horribly misguided pastors or lay-leaders. And then their is stuff like Joel Osteen. Great motivational speaker, but he basically uses Christianity like a smorgasbord. Every church I've attended I've seen teaching I strongly disagree with. But one thing that may have helped me is that I didn't become a Christian until I was 27. i.e. I made the choice as an adult with a fully developed brain. Those brought in at birth, who don't pray and study hard, are highly susceptible to atheists that know the bible better than they do.

I've seen it on University Way next to UW (Seattle) back in the early 80's. Their faith is like the seed that falls on the rocks. One of my goals as an older man now (70), is to throw some mulch on those seeds before the sun scorches them.

 

[Ace777]

not all powerful.

Can God make a rock so big He can not lift it?

 

[Astrid]

I get that but Christians and non Christians have different thoughts, especially about religion. On a forum I rarely see anyone succumb to the other's point of view. I've read other topics where both can talk about non-religious things.

This is all good except we think differently. I've seen other threads about intelligence and I get the impression some are taking the intellectual high ground because Christians believe in an invisible Creator by faith and have no proof. The way I see it is science can't prove or disprove God no matter how you spin it so why debate? Some don't believe in Quantum physics because they have a materialistic belief. I like medical science, which shows how man-made foods are killing us.

Well God says that in scripture but again you have to expect scriptural replies from a Christian forum. Many Christians forget that the bible doesn't mean squat to a nonbeliever according to Paul but some still post scripture. Do you mean to say you've never said anything that might have offended a Christian?

Because some of your posts complained about your treatment here. I can see that non Christians are given the impression that we hold the moral high ground and rightly so by the way some talk about sin. On the other hand, nonbelievers like to come from a scientific point of view to try to show up the Christian because in your eyes we believe in a fairy tale.

There's no " but" different pov. The differences are the whole point!!
" Succomb" is an odd word, for growth and learning.

I can't discuss how " some" nameless atheists seem to you.

I can tell you how I, or imo any thoughtful person. would see it.

There is no, that's NO "intellectualat high ground" involved re faith / non faith in the existence of god.

Of course there's no proof/ disproof. And- please-
science does not, ever, deal in " proof". Anyone says different is just wrong
I don't debate existence of God.
And science is not about " belief". It's about
understanding.

I'm sure people have taken offense at many things I say.
I'm not offended by the " fools" thing. I know it for what it is.

I don't call Christians fools. Calling someone else that while hiding behind " gods word" is contemptible
So off to ig city for those people.
Why talk when there's zero mutual respect?

"Fairy tale"...."Show up Christians..."
That is several points off compass.
It's not me. I don't do that. If someone does, call them on it. Invite me, I will call them on it too.


Heres how it is.

You Christians argue all the time, deny that the other is even a Christian.

But what atheists say is all and always wrong?


I dont care to discuss that for which there is no evidence / data, still less that for which there is nothing but opinion.

Some things that certain ( uneducated)
Christians think are essential to Faith in God
are demonstrably false.

For reasons of my own I find it interesting to see the
different ways they try to justify what is not merely untrue
but so disrespectful of any god they may choose to believe in.


Any questions?

 

[Astrid]

Love is one of those things that make us a more human, Human Being. There is much value in that.

Sorryah but I get nothing from that explanation.

 

[Astrid]

Why do so many Christians hide in a
No-atheists forum while they discuss atheists
and evolution with the choir?

 

[Palmfever]

Usually the atheists targets fundamentalist literal beliefs about the Bible. One we get past that we get more into philosophy.
But you make me wonder if my beliefs change at all. They are pretty abstract and hard to pin down anyway. There is lot that I think is unessential. Like Paul Tillich I think in terms of an "Ultimate Concern". For me it comes down to the question: Is the universe fundamentally without consciousness or is consciousness its foundation?

So beliefs about how God does this or that, who Jesus is, what is revelation, what can we know about God and how to know it, how to interpret the Bible, etc, these beliefs seem to change all the time for me. They seem open ended and ongoing.

To the unbeliever, No... Maybe. From newscientist.com

Conscious
You ask: Is the universe conscious? The answer depends on what is meant by “conscious”. If the definition is an operational one, the question can be settled by observation and experiment. If not, well, you can play more or less interesting semantic games

I think the nominal -ness suffix in “consciousness” has misled a lot of thinkers, me included. A -ness word refers to an entity or to a trait. It doesn’t refer to a process or event. Yet (after much thought) it seems obvious to me that any investigation into consciousness must begin with the observation that it exists only while it is happening. Like rain. Or a thought. Or a life

This is how the universe has become conscious
When it comes to our “cosmic perspective”, there is one aspect of our existence that I find deeply significant. We are composed of matter and energy that has become capable of thinking about and describing matter and energy. Thus, through us and any other technologically advanced beings that may exist, matter/energy – and, by extension, the universe – has become consciously aware of itself. I find this very profound

the-universe-is-built-a-lot-like-a-giant-brain-so-is-it-conscious/
For some physicists, this likeness is too tempting to ignore. Some have even suggested the possibility that the universe “thinks” or is in some sense conscious, an idea with roots in the philosophy of panpsychism.

Traditionally, researchers explained consciousness in one of two ways. Materialists say matter is all there is and consciousness – somehow – emerges from it. Dualists say there are fundamentally two kinds of stuff: matter stuff and consciousness stuff. Much ink has been spilled on the shortcoming of both ideas. For instance, how exactly does consciousness arise from pure matter?

Panpsychism
For some, panpsychism offers an elegant middle way. It says that consciousness is a fundamental ingredient of reality, that all matter, including particles, has some form of very basic consciousness. This arguably makes it easier to see how you could explain the way human-level consciousness arises – in the sense that the brain is already built from more basic units of consciousness. “It’s definitely having a moment,” says philosopher Joanna Leidenhag, who studies panpsychism at the University of Leeds in the UK.

It is an extension of this concept, called “cosmopsychism”, that posits the universe is conscious. For his part, Vazza is unimpressed by the idea, on multiple levels. “Consciousness is already something we can’t define, so it’s pretty weird to attribute it to the universe,” he says. The motivation for his study was more to understand how complex networks organise themselves. Plus, just because two things have the same structure doesn’t mean they have the same character. A living brain and a dead brain, after all, are organised in the same way. On top of that, the universe is so vast that it would take eons for even light-speed signals to traverse the cosmos: if it does “think”, it does so extremely slowly.

 

[Sunflower39]

Because…why not?

 

[Larniavc]

Therefore, they don’t have theism.

Exactly right.

 

[Larniavc]

Mormons aren’t Christians. So this isn’t just a doctrinal dispute. They have a false god, and a false Jesus.

But you see that from the perspective of an atheists that is a distinction without a difference, surely?

 

[AV1611VET]

Though I am familiar with that verse, I compare it to "In my father's house are many mansions". That is a terrible translation. A better one is, "In my father's house are many rooms."

You'd rather live in a room, than a mansion!?

 

[AV1611VET]

Both the Mormons and the Calvinist's believe that it was God's plan for Adam and Eve to sin and be disobedient.

They're both wrong, aren't they?

If they knew God they would know He cannot do anything contrary to Himself.

Yup.

Even you say God is all powerful, yet He can not lie, cheat, steal and so on.

Yup.

 

[AV1611VET]

My approach is Just Love. That's it.

Many use that approach.

They're in prison now.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why? Do you think it's contagious?

Some things grow like tares.

 

[AV1611VET]

In the "other" spiritual paths, many there are also ex-Christians.

How did you become one in the first place?

 

[Hammster]

But you see that from the perspective of an atheists that is a distinction without a difference, surely?

It’s a distinction that needs to be made, though.

 

[AV1611VET]

What is this " love" you speak of? Of what value is it?

Oh, please!

You can Google it and get a list of 173 Mandarin Chinese love songs!