Christians who accept evolution

[Late_Cretaceous]

How would (or does) accepting evolutionary theory affect your faith?

 

[Buck72]

I saw a joke ballot once for Iraqi elections. The options were something like: "Saddam", or "Please kill my family".

Your poll is the most biased survey I have seen in a long time. Perhaps an option with "I will not accept evolution", without the "insecure faith" remark?

Please, Late_Cretaceous, come on, you are doing a disservice to your evolutionist ideology by mocking those with contrasting viewpoints, hardly a way to win an argument unless you’re a liberal democrat.

 

[ThePhoenix]

Please, Late_Cretaceous, come on, you are doing a disservice to your evolutionist ideology by mocking those with contrasting viewpoints, hardly a way to win an argument unless you’re a liberal democrat.

I'll take your last two words as sarcasm so I don't lose all respect I have for you. Anyway, the options should be
A) Evolution makes my faith stronger
B) Evolution is science, Christianity is not
C) Doesn't matter to me

There is a bit of a "When did you stop beating your wife" ring to the third option.

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

Does nobody have a sense of humor around here. Get over yourself.

The problem for me is when creationsists question "how can you be a real christian if you accept evolution", then go on to make flawed or poorly informed statements about a theory they don't understand. THere have been a multitude of threads here based on insinuating that one cannot be a real christian and accept evolution. That is absolute hogwash - and it is THAT which I mock.

You said that you will not accept evolution. Thats fine, that is your decision. Not a rational one in my view, but nevertheless it is yours to make.

 

[wblastyn]

Creationists seem to reject anything that requires you to think too hard about something.

Non-literal Genesis requires you to think about what the message is rather than taking it at face value. Evolution requires you to think about biology, it also gets you to think about the nature of humans (we aren't really better than other animals, etc).

 

[Vance]

You know, Wblastyn, you joke, but there is a core of truth in that statement.

I grew up on the pentecostal movement (my father was an Assembly of God minister, I went to AG schools and I still attend an AG church), so I know a bit about it. This movement grew up initially among the less educated and the poor. There has always been a subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) presentation of the Word as "something all can understand, even the most uneducated among us", which of course, is true to a great extent. This is also the core basis for the focus on emotionalism, experiencing God in a way that is an equal playing field for all levels of intelligence and sophistication. There has always been a distrust of deeper thought and analysis of the more complex concepts, kind of a lowest common denominator view of Christianity. Now, things HAVE changed over the years, but this basic distrust of "secular knowledge" still permeates the movement.

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

It seems to me that someone whos entire faith relies upon a literal intepretation of the bible is on pretty shakey ground. If you insist that the bible must be taken word for work, literally, at face value - then what happens when so much as one insignificant fact turns out to be wrong. Does your whole faith crumble?

That is the jist of this poll.
I wonder if some of these people worship God or the bible.

What would happen is every piece of scripture was destroyed one day. Would that mean that nobody could find God?

Now, if you can accept that the bible is a collection of legends, myths and verbal histories (some borrowed from other peoples), and that it has been changed at will to suit the whims of people in the past, then you can accept that it does not have to be 100% verbatum in order for their to be meaning and truth within it.

 

[Buck72]

It seems to me that someone whos entire faith relies upon a literal intepretation of the bible is on pretty shakey ground. If you insist that the bible must be taken word for work, literally, at face value - then what happens when so much as one insignificant fact turns out to be wrong. Does your whole faith crumble?

That is the jist of this poll.
I wonder if some of these people worship God or the bible.

Late_Cretaceous:

If you took the time to actually read the Bible, you'll find it a bit more intellectually significant than you appear to understand.

Bear with me while I explain, or rather allow God's Word to explain:

God has revealed Himself in His Word. Apart from the Bible God could be anyone or anything, just like Buddah, Allah, or Shirley Maclaine.


Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.

Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Joh 1:4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.

Joh 1:5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

So we see that the "Word" is Christ. Obviously not on printed paper, but within the Spirit of the breathed Word of God.

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Mat 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

Mat 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Mat 7:24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.

Mat 7:25 "And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.

Mat 7:26 "Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.

Mat 7:27 "The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell--and great was its fall."

So, no Late_Cretaceous, those that DENY THE WORD are they that live on shifty sand. Do not let the enemy lie to you and tell you otherwise. That is why He gave us His word bro! So that we could know Him!!

If we cannot trust the Word of God - what is left to trust?



Pro 13:13 The one who despises the word will be in debt to it, But the one who fears the commandment will be rewarded.

 

[Buck72]

From John 1, we can easily see that Christ was present at the Creation, in fact He is "one" within God. Proverbs 8 describes the term "wisdom" as that which was present at the creation and personafies this virtue into that of God Himself! This word is way, way too heavy to not be from the One Almighty God of Eternity. This is also fitting that we regard the word for what it claims to be; not what some church says, or what Buck72 says, what the Word does for itself. It doesn't need any help!


You've heard of the Bereans that did not blindly accept the things they heard in church, but took the time to read for themselves!


Act 17:11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

Act 17:12 Therefore many of them believed, along with a number of prominent Greek women and men.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Pro 8:14 "Counsel is mine and sound wisdom; I am understanding, power is mine.
Pro 8:15 "By me kings reign, And rulers decree justice.
Pro 8:16 "By me princes rule, and nobles, All who judge rightly.
Pro 8:17 "I love those who love me; And those who diligently seek me will find me.
Pro 8:18 "Riches and honor are with me, Enduring wealth and righteousness.
Pro 8:19 "My fruit is better than gold, even pure gold, And my yield better than choicest silver.
Pro 8:20 "I walk in the way of righteousness, In the midst of the paths of justice,
Pro 8:21 To endow those who love me with wealth, That I may fill their treasuries.
Pro 8:22 "The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old.
Pro 8:23 "From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth.
Pro 8:24 "When there were no depths I was brought forth, When there were no springs abounding with water.
Pro 8:25 "Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills I was brought forth;
Pro 8:26 While He had not yet made the earth and the fields, Nor the first dust of the world.
Pro 8:27 "When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep,
Pro 8:28 When He made firm the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed,
Pro 8:29 When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth;

Pro 8:30 Then I was beside Him, as a master workman; And I was daily His delight, Rejoicing always before Him,
Pro 8:31 Rejoicing in the world, His earth, And having my delight in the sons of men.
Pro 8:32 "Now therefore, O sons, listen to me, For blessed are they who keep my ways.
Pro 8:33 "Heed instruction and be wise, And do not neglect it.
Pro 8:34 "Blessed is the man who listens to me, Watching daily at my gates, Waiting at my doorposts.
Pro 8:35 "For he who finds me finds life And obtains favor from the LORD.
Pro 8:36 "But he who sins against me injures himself; All those who hate me love death."

 

[Buck72]

What would happen is every piece of scripture was destroyed one day. Would that mean that nobody could find God?

This has been tried for the last 2,000 years and hasn't succeeded. Given the Lord's ability to rule over Eternity, He can certainly see fit to provide His word with enough literary integrity to survive and spread throughout the world as it has.

Isa 66:1 Thus says the LORD, "Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool. Where then is a house you could build for Me? And where is a place that I may rest?

Isa 66:2 "For My hand made all these things, Thus all these things came into being," declares the LORD. "But to this one I will look, To him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word.

Christ tells us that the end will not come about until all people have heard the message contained in its pages, which, by the way are not legends, myths, verbal histories, according to whim. You cannot come close to even backing that up. It is simply a diversionary tactic used to avoid the inevitable accountability one must face for ignoring the word as I have clearly demonstrated here within the context of this Christian Forum.


Rev 3:10'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

Rev 22:7 "And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book."

Rev 22:10 And he *said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.

Rev 22:18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;

Rev 22:19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

 

[Vance]

Ah, Buck, but you are missing a very important point of LC's post: he said that basing faith on a LITERAL reading of Scripture is shaky. While you will find that many Christians do not place the same value on Scripture as you and I (and, to tell the truth, I do not recall exactly where LC comes in on this point), I would agree with LC on this specific point. I base my ENTIRE LIFE on God's Scripture, but that does not mean that I base my faith on an insistance that every word in Scripture needs to be read literally. That is, indeed, shaky ground. If you say that EVERY Scripture must be read literally, then if even ONE Scripture is shown only to be true if read allegorically, your entire faith can crumble. It is the brittle and stiff which break, the flexible but consistent which survives.

And, really, if you analyzed how you read every Scripture, you would find that you read a lot more non-literally than you would expect. I tend to read literally unless there is a very, very good reason NOT to read literally.

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

Buck - you are confusing the varying uses of the term "word of God". You seem to be conflating them. Unfortunately, the logical conclusion of this is that Our Lord is the Bible. A man is a book. You come that close when you quote Rev 19:13 as if it were about Scripture. It is not, it is about Our Lord, who is referred to as the Word of God.

That both Scripture and Jesus are referred to as the Word of God means that both are revelations of God. However, I would suggest that Jesus is the more perfect revelation - untainted by communication through the fallible media of men. The writer to the Hebrews starts by saying "1In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 3The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being" (Hebrews 1).

Coupled with this, there is of course a load of Greek ideas about a divine "Logos" which John picked up on, but my main thrust here is to point out that you seem to be doing theology by concordance - pulling out verses that contain a particular term, as if that term is always referring to the same thing. It ain't necessarily so.

With the benefit of capital letters in the modern alphabet, I tend to use "word of God" for Scripture, and "Word of God" for Our Lord to reflect the superiority of the Word made flesh.

 

[Hydra009]

Hmmm...let's compare:

A belief system based on dogma.
A scientific fact-based system based on empirical evidence.

Hmmmm...now which one is correct about evolution? That's a tough decision. *goes to the museum, looks at the dinosaur bones* Gee, I don't know...