Christians - what if you're wrong?

[cerette]

How do you know that what is written in Job is correct and/or true? Who wrote Job? What was the credibility of this person? Did this person have any ulterior motives?

What kind of support are you looking for with this struggle of yours?

 

[Sketcher]

A pretty big tent? The millions of babies in this world are in a position of non-belief. It would take a pretty big tent to hold all of them.

You didn't answer my question.

 

[forGod1]

I'm often asked to consider what if I'm wrong. What if I'm wrong and I end up going to hell and suffer for eternity. Christians have presented Pascal's Wager to me in an apparent attempt to keep me from suffering for eternity in hell. But it's a two way street:

What if those who hold belief in the Christian God go to a hell of eternal punishment and suffering, while rational non-believers go to an eternal paradise full of love and happiness.

Have you ever considered this?

ive seen miracles.. more than i can count! and his word makes my brain come to life! one morning, a long time ago, i woke up in one bad mood.. i turned, feeling groggy and mad, and opened my bible.. i read a bit.. and i felt God go, "YESSSSSSSSSSSS!".. really. he's everywhere.. he's waiting for you, aku. he does love you. he wants to talk to you about everything you're interested in for an eternity.

 

[Merrily]

I'm often asked to consider what if I'm wrong. What if I'm wrong and I end up going to hell and suffer for eternity. Christians have presented Pascal's Wager to me in an apparent attempt to keep me from suffering for eternity in hell. But it's a two way street:

What if those who hold belief in the Christian God go to a hell of eternal punishment and suffering, while rational non-believers go to an eternal paradise full of love and happiness.

Have you ever considered this?

Two,words there as have caused any amount of trouble in the world are " What if?"
To be frank, I'd be miffed, but that aint gonna happen.

 

[shawnavery]

How would you know you're not wrong?

Because we believe we feel we have faith....we know and that in my opinion is all you need to know.

John 3:16

 

[dhh712]

I'm often asked to consider what if I'm wrong. What if I'm wrong and I end up going to hell and suffer for eternity. Christians have presented Pascal's Wager to me in an apparent attempt to keep me from suffering for eternity in hell. But it's a two way street:

What if those who hold belief in the Christian God go to a hell of eternal punishment and suffering, while rational non-believers go to an eternal paradise full of love and happiness.

Have you ever considered this?

Yes. I do not believe in God because of the promise of a reward. I believe in Him because He has shown His love to me and I love Him for that (and He has given the ability to me, out of the kindness of His free grace, to believe upon Him first; I had nothing to do with the initiation of that gift, only the acceptance of it--and my flesh wrestles against it every day, calling to mind the things of the world which I once found pleasureful and still am deceived by that because of my weak faith).

Whatever happens, I know that I deserve nothing less than the wrath of God for eternity. If that is what happens, it will be nothing less than what I deserve for choosing sin in paradise instead of the love of God. His love was not good enough for me. He is merciful, compassionate, and long-suffering and I deserve at His hands whatever He has ordained for me.

 

[Faulty]

I'm often asked to consider what if I'm wrong. What if I'm wrong and I end up going to hell and suffer for eternity. Christians have presented Pascal's Wager to me in an apparent attempt to keep me from suffering for eternity in hell. But it's a two way street:

What if those who hold belief in the Christian God go to a hell of eternal punishment and suffering, while rational non-believers go to an eternal paradise full of love and happiness.

Have you ever considered this?

Like Paul said, if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not raised, and we are all still dead in our sins and still damned like the rest of mankind.

 

[bhsmte]

ive seen miracles.. more than i can count! and his word makes my brain come to life! one morning, a long time ago, i woke up in one bad mood.. i turned, feeling groggy and mad, and opened my bible.. i read a bit.. and i felt God go, "YESSSSSSSSSSSS!".. really. he's everywhere.. he's waiting for you, aku. he does love you. he wants to talk to you about everything you're interested in for an eternity.

Can you give us an example of the miracles you have seen?

 

[Akureyri]

I cannot be wrong. I know where I am going because I have been there.

Be honest. You don't really know that. Saying you know something that you don't really know is being dishonest.

Not to brag, it was simply an incredible experience given by God to one least deserving of that but I have been to Heaven. Literally stood there in the presence of God Himself.

Did you take any photographs? Do you have any objectively measurable evidence of this encounter?

Looked around, got questions answered and then sent back. Back for now until that time when I get to go there and stay there. (Please do not make me die from laughter by saying that I, somehow, imagined all that. What I saw cannot be imagined, it cannot even be described in human terms and language.)

It does not have to be that particular kind of experience but you can truly experience God in absolutely profound and absolutely undeniable way.

Sure, if God is real, I'd like to see him demonstrate his powers. Does he want me to believe he exists?

God Himself, The Creator of the universe and everything in it can be experienced on totally personal level! The incredible truth of that is hard to grasp but it is real. God is outside of time itself so He has time for personal relationship with EVERYBODY!

Can you communicate back and forth with God?

What about being outside of time is "personal"?

I am nobody special in any kind of way. Just a working guy with family, mortgage and bills to pay. I simply asked God to be Enoch, walk with God and He answered my prayers. Some walks with God I had! I wish I cold tell you how incredibly awesome God is but words cannot describe Him!

Was God able to read your mind? If so, how do you know? Does God know what I'm thinking?

For so many years I had so many questions about my life and everything in it. Why this happened to me…. why that did not happen…? I do not have any questions anymore. Everything makes cense now! Everything!

I did not come to God because I was seeking God. I came to God by running away from Him. I was meddling in some occultist stuff without even thinking that it was real. When I experienced undeniable reality of evil I realized that I am on the wrong side. Not the side I wanted to be on. When I saw that evil is undeniable I realized that God must be real too.

Why would a loving God allow evil?

I was tough going at times but by the miracle of God I am now on the right side.

How can you know for sure what happens after you die?

 

[Akureyri]

I haven't considered the specific question you posted, but I have considered thoughts like "What if Christianity is not real" and "What if there is nothing after death" and "What if I end up in hell".

However, together with Job and all other believers I can say: "I know that my Redeemer lives." So I am not afraid.

What kind of support are you looking for with this struggle?

Not looking for support. I'm trying to get a better understanding of how Christians think.

So you're not afraid. I'm also not afraid - and I don't believe your god to be real.

 

[Akureyri]

Not the kind you can offer.

I have been reading many of his replies. While he is saying that he is looking for God he is only looking for proof that there is no God. He is lying to himself and others but only fooling himself.

All topics go in the same way:

He asks the question.

He gets answers from multiple people.

Then he says: “No this is not an answer”

He asks same question again.

It goes on until people give up trying to talk to him.

At which point he declares to himself “See I am the only one who is right”

There is no point in having conversation with him because it is not possible to have an intelligent conversation. He is here on some kind of ego tickling, mind gaming trip and proving his own “divinity” since he is the only one who knows what an answer to his question is and which answer is the only right one.

Prove me wrong. Does your god want me to believe he exists? Does your god know precisely every thought I have? Can you communicate back and forth with your god?

 

[Akureyri]

When I go to a craft show and see an intricate wood carving for sale, I do not doubt the existence of its creator. I've never looked them in they eye and shaken their hand, but they obviously are real.

When I look at and ponder the marvel that is our universe, I also do not doubt its creator. Through the truth revealed in scripture, through prayer, and through accepting what is obvious to me, I've grown to know our Creator, guided by his Holy Spirit, and through his Son.

You don't know for sure how the universe came into existence. So I gather the thing you're calling "God" is all the things that you don't know the cause of and/or those things which can't be explained. I also believe those things exist.

 

[shawnavery]

Not the kind you can offer.

I have been reading many of his replies. While he is saying that he is looking for God he is only looking for proof that there is no God. He is lying to himself and others but only fooling himself.

All topics go in the same way:

He asks the question.

He gets answers from multiple people.

Then he says: “No this is not an answer”

He asks same question again.

It goes on until people give up trying to talk to him.

At which point he declares to himself “See I am the only one who is right”

There is no point in having conversation with him because it is not possible to have an intelligent conversation. He is here on some kind of ego tickling, mind gaming trip and proving his own “divinity” since he is the only one who knows what an answer to his question is and which answer is the only right one.

I agree

John 3:16

 

[forGod1]

one time i fell and the air caught me.. i've seen many miracles. there is no belief for me, it's just fact.

 

[ewells36]

Its a valid question to ask and even I, a Christian, wish other Christians would stop using Pascals Wager because its not a valid theory or even a valid argument for Christians to use against those who do not believe. But, alas my godless buddies out there (Im kidding....or am I) I came across an article from the Pope and even though I am not Catholic, its an interesting read for sure and without further ado, here you go

Pope Francis assures atheists: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven - Europe - World - The Independent

Also, I saw earlier in this thread a good question Why Does God Allow Evil. Now there are many, many different answers one can give, but I always tend to think that an article from someone who is versed in that kind of stuff is the best, so here again, is another article about Why Does God Allow Evil?

http://purposedriven.com/blogs/dailyhope/why-does-god-allow-evil/

And yet, another one on the same issue of Why Does God Allow Evil

http://www.bethinking.org/suffering/introductory/q-why-does-god-allow-evil-to-exist.htm

 

[cerette]

Not looking for support. I'm trying to get a better understanding of how Christians think.

So you're not afraid. I'm also not afraid - and I don't believe your god to be real.

But this is the support forum though.

 

[Akureyri]

one time i fell and the air caught me.. i've seen many miracles. there is no belief for me, it's just fact.

How do you know when you fell the air caught you? How can you be sure it was the air and not God?

How do you know what you are calling miracles aren't really just freak occurrences of nature?

 

[Akureyri]

Its a valid question to ask and even I, a Christian, wish other Christians would stop using Pascals Wager because its not a valid theory or even a valid argument for Christians to use against those who do not believe. But, alas my godless buddies out there (Im kidding....or am I) I came across an article from the Pope and even though I am not Catholic, its an interesting read for sure and without further ado, here you go

Pope Francis assures atheists: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven - Europe - World - The Independent

Also, I saw earlier in this thread a good question Why Does God Allow Evil. Now there are many, many different answers one can give, but I always tend to think that an article from someone who is versed in that kind of stuff is the best, so here again, is another article about Why Does God Allow Evil?

Why Does God Allow Evil?

And yet, another one on the same issue of Why Does God Allow Evil

bethinking.org - Suffering - Q. Why does God allow evil to exist?

No need to read threads on why God allows evil.

If God exists in the presence of evil, then either:

1) God is incapable of doing anything about it (or is impotent)
2) God doesn't want to do anything about it (or is apathetic)

 

[Akureyri]

You didn't answer my question.

What was the question you asked that I didn't answer. Post it again and I'll answer it. Or send it to me in a PM.

 

[Akureyri]

ive seen miracles.. more than i can count! and his word makes my brain come to life! one morning, a long time ago, i woke up in one bad mood.. i turned, feeling groggy and mad, and opened my bible.. i read a bit.. and i felt God go, "YESSSSSSSSSSSS!".. really. he's everywhere.. he's waiting for you, aku. he does love you. he wants to talk to you about everything you're interested in for an eternity.

Does he want it badly enough that he will demonstrate his existence to me?

If God is everywhere, he is in the center of the Earth. How did he get to the center of the Earth?