Christians please explain The Ten Commandments

[newborn2007]

I am a bit surprise to those claim they are Christians but do not obey the Ten Commandments.
I know what it is and it's command from

Exodus 20:2–17

Deuteronomy 5:6–21

Exodus 34:11–27

My question is WHY Christians reject these Ten Commandments.

I am not looking for personal opinion here.I am looking for facts that allows you to disobey the Ten Commandments.

If you do not know what is Ten Commandments and what it says,please do some research before posting here.

​

 

[Texan40]

All humans break the commandments because we are imperfect. If you mean once a person has surrendered their sins and desires to Christ, why do they then continue to break the commandments? I guess the answer would be the same. For myself it is a true desire to repent and please God that will eventually deliver me from those actions. As with anything in life you only truly "fail" when you decide to stop trying.

 

[newborn2007]

All humans break the commandments because we are imperfect. If you mean once a person has surrendered their sins and desires to Christ, why do they then continue to break the commandments? I guess the answer would be the same. For myself it is a true desire to repent and please God that will eventually deliver me from those actions. As with anything in life you only truly "fail" when you decide to stop trying.

You said surrender to Christ not to The Creator.

Exodus 20:3
Do not have any other gods before me.

Exodus 20:4
You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Exodus 20:5
You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,

Exodus 34:17
You shall not make cast idols.

If your gonna tell me that Christ is the God then show me the proof.I can show you the proof from your own scripture that he pbuh has never claim to be God or son of God

 

[Texan40]

According to my knowledge of the scripture (in this case John 1:14 "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." ) Jesus is the Spirit of God made Flesh. A dichotomy of True Son of Man and True Spirit. As a Christian I believe that Jesus (Yehoshua/Yeshua) was the promised Christ of prophesy. He stated, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." I grew up Lutheran in denomination and believe in The Trinity. Because of the 2 aforementioned assertions I believe that by surrendering to Christ I am indeed surrendering to God.

 

[newborn2007]

According to my knowledge of the scripture (in this case John 1:14 "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." ) Jesus is the Spirit of God made Flesh. A dichotomy of True Son of Man and True Spirit. As a Christian I believe that Jesus (Yehoshua/Yeshua) was the promised Christ of prophesy. He stated, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." I grew up Lutheran in denomination and believe in The Trinity. Because of the 2 aforementioned assertions I believe that by surrendering to Christ I am indeed surrendering to God.

I should appreciate you try.At least you speak base on the scripture and not base on your opinion

Now lets see these evidence below:

Why did Jesus die on the cross for the sins of man when the bible cleary says:
PROOF:
[Ezekiel 18:20] "The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son."

[Deuteronomy 24:16] "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

SAID THAT THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN HIM:
[John 14:28] "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

WAS TEMPTED:
[Matthew 4:1] "Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil."

But God can not be tempted:
[James 1:13] "When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone"

HE DENIED KNOWLEDGE OF THE UNSEEN:
[Mark 13:32]"No-one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
[Matthew 24:36-38] "No-one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."


DID NOT ACCEPT TO BE CALLED GOOD AND DEFERRED TO GOD:
[Mark 10:18] "Why do you call me good? Jesus answered. No-one is good— except God alone."

PRAYED TO GOD:
[Mark 14:32] "They went to a place called Gethsemane, and Jesus said to his disciples, "Sit here while I pray.""

[Luke 5:16] "But Jesus often withdrew to lonely places and prayed."

ORDERED EVERYONE TO WORSHIP THE ONE TRUE ALMIGHTY GOD ALONE:
[Matthew 4:10] "Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."

[Deuteronomy 6:13] "Fear the LORD your God, serve him only and take your oaths in his name."

REFERRED TO HIMSELF AS A PROPHET:
[Luke 13:33-34] "In any case, I must keep going today and tomorrow and the next day—for surely no prophet can die outside Jerusalem! "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you."

OTHERS ALSO CALLED HIM A PROPHET:
[Luke 7:16] "They were all filled with awe and praised God. "A great prophet has appeared among us," they said."

[Luke 24:17-22] ""About Jesus of Nazareth," they replied. "He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people."

[John 6:14] "After the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus did, they began to say, "Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world.""

REFERED TO AS A SERVANT OF GOD:
[Acts 3:13] "The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus, the one whom you delivered"

[Acts 4:27] "For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy (A)servant Jesus."


HE MADE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN HIMSELF AND THE FATHER:
[Matthew 23:9] "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."

[John 12:26-28] "Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me. "Now my heart is troubled, and what shall I say? 'Father, save me from this hour'? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour. Father, glorify your name!""

REFERED TO HIMSELF FREQUENTLY AS SON OF MAN
[Matthew 8:20] "Jesus said to him, "The foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no-where to lay His head.""

[Matthew 12:32] "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come."

[Matthew 12:40] "for just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster (Whale), so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

[Matthew 17:9] "As they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, "Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man has risen from the dead.""

[John 6:27] ""Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.""

There more but i believe this is enough for the time being

I have post many evidence from your own scripture in other threads and post,no single Christians in this forum defend or prove me wrong.
I am wondering why.When I quote verses from Quran,it looks like am preaching.and of course no point doing so as you do not believe in Quran

So I shall quote verses from you own scripture. But no one defend or comment anything on those verses.

How can Christians preach when they can't defend and provide proofs?
I really hope at least you can say something on those verses.

Yes i know they OT but you must undertsand that without OT there is not NT.and before you quote anything from NT,please make sure it is authentic and keep Council of Nicaea in your mind .Have a great day and looking forward for your answers

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[Texan40]

The basic belief that Christ's death can pay for my own sins stems from the fact that Christ (while on this earth) was a true human being in every sense of the word. He was tempted as I am tempted, he suffered life as we all suffer life. We are taught that God through his grace and mercy allowed The Word (see Genesis) to be made flesh. Because of the true physical nature of his flesh he endured what we all endure, but unlike the rest of mankind his Divine Spirit allowed him to life a sinless life. His crucifixion paves the way for my salvation because he chose in death to take on himself all of the world's sin tho he himself was sinless.

By the way, I thought this was a thread about the 10 commandments not an examination of the validity of Christianity or biblical scripture. =] And by the way it's not that I "don't believe in the qu'ran" it's that I follow a different path. There is only one God. I believe that we are all striving to rejoin him: believers, non-believers, modern world, tribal culture...

 

[GigageiTsula]

We are all sinners, guilty before God. The Ten Commandments, which are the God's Moral Law, brings the knowledge of sin. The Law does not justify us or save us; it only shows us the righteous standard that God requires of us. The Law of God condemns us and sets God's wrath against us. The Law of God drives us to the Cross and the forgiveness that comes through Christ alone. I talk extensively about this in my witnessing and evangelism blog. Click here to go to one of the posts where I specifically talk about this. There are not many different paths which will lead to God. There is ONLY ONE way to God and that is through Jesus Christ. Your chosen religion will not save you. Going to church will not save you. Reading the Bible will not save you. Reading false beliefs in the Koran or any other religious book will not save you. Growing up in a Christian home or in a religious home will not save you. Giving sacrificially to the poor will not save you. There are no good deeds you can do throughout your entire lifetime which will save you. There is ONLY way to be saved and that is through Jesus Christ alone.

 

[newborn2007]

The basic belief that Christ's death can pay for my own sins stems from the fact that Christ (while on this earth) was a true human being in every sense of the word. He was tempted as I am tempted, he suffered life as we all suffer life. We are taught that God through his grace and mercy allowed The Word (see Genesis) to be made flesh. Because of the true physical nature of his flesh he endured what we all endure, but unlike the rest of mankind his Divine Spirit allowed him to life a sinless life. His crucifixion paves the way for my salvation because he chose in death to take on himself all of the world's sin tho he himself was sinless.

By the way, I thought this was a thread about the 10 commandments not an examination of the validity of Christianity or biblical scripture. =] And by the way it's not that I "don't believe in the qu'ran" it's that I follow a different path. There is only one God. I believe that we are all striving to rejoin him: believers, non-believers, modern world, tribal culture...

Yes this is about the Ten Commandments and the proof I gave above is about your first post and even in Ten Commandment it said worship One Lord and it didn't say worship a man.and I have back up evidence that Jesus pbuh has never claim to be God.
So basically everything is connected to each other as a puzzle.You can't ignore any of it

 

[newborn2007]

We are all sinners, guilty before God. The Ten Commandments, which are the God's Moral Law, brings the knowledge of sin. The Law does not justify us or save us; it only shows us the righteous standard that God requires of us. The Law of God condemns us and sets God's wrath against us. The Law of God drives us to the Cross and the forgiveness that comes through Christ alone. I talk extensively about this in my witnessing and evangelism blog. Click here to go to one of the posts where I specifically talk about this. There are not many different paths which will lead to God. There is ONLY ONE way to God and that is through Jesus Christ. Your chosen religion will not save you. Going to church will not save you. Reading the Bible will not save you. Reading false beliefs in the Koran or any other religious book will not save you. Growing up in a Christian home or in a religious home will not save you. Giving sacrificially to the poor will not save you. There are no good deeds you can do throughout your entire lifetime which will save you. There is ONLY way to be saved and that is through Jesus Christ alone.

This is interesting.Through Jesus pbuh uh.Provide evidence for your claim

Jesus pbuh said obey and worship one God.he didn't say "worship me" or"obey me"

would like to add something here.I can agree to an extend that through Jesus Christ is the way to be saved.But how many of you follow his teachings?how many of you live the life as he lived?

no fornication.lower your gaze,no swine(pig),no alcohol,wear veil almost similar to Muslims and Jews.

but then.people Christians "invent" their own Christianity and CLAIM through Jesus Christ to be saved.how can you be saved when you didn't Obey The Lord or follow the footsteps of Jesus pbuh?

Jesus pbuh was circumcised.

Is there any Christian men in this room circumcised?

Practise what you preach

Don't be Christians by name. don't just look the bible but read it and understand it.Don't keep on claiming "we love Jesus pbuh" when you are not even 1percent do what he asked you to do

 

[jpcedotal]

I am a bit surprise to those claim they are Christians but do not obey the Ten Commandments.
I know what it is and it's command from

Exodus 20:2–17

Deuteronomy 5:6–21

Exodus 34:11–27

My question is WHY Christians reject these Ten Commandments.

I am not looking for personal opinion here.I am looking for facts that allows you to disobey the Ten Commandments.

If you do not know what is Ten Commandments and what it says,please do some research before posting here.

​

Christians do not reject the 10 Commandments. We disobey them because like you we are human and we sin. We do not think this is ok or even acceptable, but without God, the 10 Commandments are impossible to keep.

So, the real question is:

Why would God give us the 10 Commandments if He knew we could never keep them..and to break one is to break all?

 

[newborn2007]

The basic belief that Christ's death can pay for my own sins

[Ezekiel 18:20] "The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son."

[Deuteronomy 24:16] "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

stems from the fact that Christ (while on this earth) was a true human being in every sense of the word. He was tempted as I am tempted, he suffered life as we all suffer life. We are taught that God through his grace and mercy allowed The Word (see Genesis) to be made flesh. Because of the true physical nature of his flesh he endured what we all endure, but unlike the rest of mankind his Divine Spirit allowed him to life a sinless life. His crucifixion paves the way for my salvation because he chose in death to take on himself all of the world's sin tho he himself was sinless.

prove it.my proof is same as the above verses

By the way, I thought this was a thread about the 10 commandments not an examination of the validity of Christianity or biblical scripture. =] And by the way it's not that I "don't believe in the qu'ran" it's that I follow a different path. There is only one God. I believe that we are all striving to rejoin him: believers, non-believers, modern world, tribal culture...

I don't say that I do not belief the Bible neither as one of the pillar in Islam is to accept all the scriptures of the People of The Book and as well to accept all the prophets and acknowledge them with the same respect as Muhammad peace and blessings upon him (pbuh).

I didn't say there is multiple God did I?
112.001 Say: He is God, the One and Only;
112.002 God, the Eternal, Absolute;
112.003 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
112.004 And there is none like unto Him

The difference between you and me is that ,you do not practise what you preach.but i do practise what i preach

 

[Texan40]

Generally speaking I don't "preach" at all. I discuss as long as the discussion is wanted. One cannot attain salvation through coersion. I have no problem with people who want to "spread the word" but I generally believe that the best way I can bring others to the kind of love Christ offers is to allow God to institute it in my own life. Also, I don't believe in 3 Gods, I believe in 1 God. I don't "worship" Jesus as the Father, I worship the Father through Jesus because it is through his sacrifice only (That was orchestrated by the Father through the Spirit) that a sinner like me could ever hope to receive amnesty from the sin and death I so justly deserve.

 

[newborn2007]

Generally speaking I don't "preach" at all. I discuss as long as the discussion is wanted. One cannot attain salvation through coersion. I have no problem with people who want to "spread the word" but I generally believe that the best way I can bring others to the kind of love Christ offers is to allow God to institute it in my own life. Also, I don't believe in 3 Gods, I believe in 1 God. I don't "worship" Jesus as the Father, I worship the Father through Jesus because it is through his sacrifice only (That was orchestrated by the Father through the Spirit) that a sinner like me could ever hope to receive amnesty from the sin and death I so justly deserve.

Thank you so much for your OPINION.have a great day

 

[GigageiTsula]

The difference between you and me is that ,you do not practice what you preach.but i do practice what i preach

You say you practice what you preach, yet accuse Christians of not doing the same. I assume that by this claim you believe yourself to be a good person. Am I correct? A good Muslim, in fact? If so, would you mind answering these questions?

The Qur’an says "To those who believe and do deeds of righteousness hath Allah promised forgiveness and a great reward" (Surah 5:9). And the Qur’an says, "O ye who believe! Turn unto Allah in sincere repentance! It maybe that your Lord will remit from you your evil deeds and bring you into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, on the day when Allah will not abase the Prophet and those who believe with him. Their light will run before them and on their right hands; they will say: Our Lord! Perfect our light for us, and forgive us! Lo! Thou art Able to do all things," (66:8-9).

I did notice how it says if you are sincere you may receive forgiveness. Therefore, my questions about your personal belief as a Muslim are these:

Are you doing enough good deeds to receive salvation on the Day of Judgment?

How do you know you are sincere enough to be forgiven of Allah?

Does it give you peace to know that even if you are very sincere then, at best, you may receive forgiveness?

If you say that you know you are sincere enough in your repentance before Allah, how do you know you are not deceiving yourself?

Is your heart really good enough to muster enough sincerity before a Holy and Righteous God?

If you say yes, I honestly and humbly ask you, are you just being prideful?

If you say you are not being prideful, then are you boasting in your sincerity?

I hope you will take the time to answer these questions, with honesty and in a civilized, respectful manner. I do have some more questions to ask you later on, if this discussion is civil and remains that way. But I think these questions are enough for now. I would like to add that this discussion would be more beneficial for everyone involved if you would cease the "holier than thou" attitude, and cease from [falsely] accusing Christians because we disagree with your personal Muslim beliefs. In order for this discussion to be peaceful (respectful, civilized, educational) everyone should try and set aside their personal objections and prejudices against the other religion. It simply isn't beneficial for any of us to talk down to each other in a condescending tone of voice. Do you agree?

 

[ebia]

The Torah, of which the 10 Commandments are the centre-piece, never were a generalised morality code for all people at all time, but served a number of purposes. The most significant of those was to keep Israel as a separate people through whom God would redeem the world and then bring the rest of humanity into that redemption. Because that came to fulfillment in Jesus that function of the law has completed its purpose; to keep following a signpost when you have reached the destination is counter-productive. In particular this affects those parts of the Law that were primarily about keeping Israel separate - Circumcision, Sabbath-Keeping and the food and purity laws. And animal sacrifices for slightly different reasons.

Jesus pbuh said obey and worship one God.he didn't say "worship me" or"obey me"

He did say "obey my commandments"

would like to add something here.I can agree to an extend that through Jesus Christ is the way to be saved.But how many of you follow his teachings?how many of you live the life as he lived?

We aren't called to live precisely as he lived because we aren't in his situation, we are called to live in character and continuation to his story in our context.

no fornication.lower your gaze,no swine(pig),no alcohol,wear veil almost similar to Muslims and Jews.

no fornication, yes.

lowing one's gaze is cultural.
The food purity laws were part of keeping Israel seperate so it would be actively inappropriate for us to keep them since the resurrection.
Jesus not only consumed alcohol but produced it.
Jesus actively undermined gender taboos - wearing a veil would run against his message.

Jesus pbuh was circumcised.

Is there any Christian men in this room circumcised?

We aren't called to copy Jesus but to follow him in a world fundamentally changed by his resurrection.

 

[Sketcher]

You said surrender to Christ not to The Creator.

Exodus 20:3
Do not have any other gods before me.

Exodus 20:4
You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Exodus 20:5
You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,

Exodus 34:17
You shall not make cast idols.

If your gonna tell me that Christ is the God then show me the proof.I can show you the proof from your own scripture that he pbuh has never claim to be God or son of God

Christians don't violate these commandments. In fact, when Christianity first came about, the Jews who did not believe wanted to call it idolatry, but since what we were doing did not fit the accepted definitions of idolatry, they had to create a new category of idolatry to brand us with.

 

[newborn2007]

You say you practice what you preach, yet accuse Christians of not doing the same. I assume that by this claim you believe yourself to be a good person. Am I correct? A good Muslim, in fact? If so, would you mind answering these questions?

I did not accuse Christians but am posting questions why you have contradictions between your actions and your scripture.
I have never claim I am good.Perhaps you yourself notice I am good.Thank you.
What is the point of being a Muslim if I don't obey The Creator.If Obeying The Creator gives the title Good Muslim,then yes I am a good Muslim alhamdulilah
I don't mind at all answering your questions in fact thank you for your questions

The Qur’an says "To those who believe and do deeds of righteousness hath Allah promised forgiveness and a great reward" (Surah 5:9). And the Qur’an says, "O ye who believe! Turn unto Allah in sincere repentance! It maybe that your Lord will remit from you your evil deeds and bring you into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, on the day when Allah will not abase the Prophet and those who believe with him. Their light will run before them and on their right hands; they will say: Our Lord! Perfect our light for us, and forgive us! Lo! Thou art Able to do all things," (66:8-9).

I did notice how it says if you are sincere you may receive forgiveness. Therefore, my questions about your personal belief as a Muslim are these:

Are you doing enough good deeds to receive salvation on the Day of Judgment?

In Islam no one is allowed to talk proudly what good deeds they are doing.And you said my own personal belief as a Muslim.

As for my own personal belief,I do not do good deeds just to receive salvation on the Day of Judgment.I do good deeds because I love The Creator and I want to please Him.The only way to please The Creator is by obeying Him.

If you think ones good deeds can take a person to paradise,then it is wrong.In Islam every single thing happens with the Mercy of The Creator The Exalted.If I were to enter paradise,then it is because of His Mercy and not because of my good deeds
Even for me to be able to do good deeds is because of His Mercy

How do you know you are sincere enough to be forgiven of Allah?

In Islam no matter how big or small your sin is,you must perform 2 rakaat repentance prayer.
There are three things must take into action when you consider repentance.
Conditions of repentance
1.To stop committing sin
2.To feel sorry/guilty for committing it
3.To resolve not to commit it once again

Any repentance failing to observe any of the above mentioned conditions will not be sound.

But if the sin involves a human right, a fourth condition is required, i.e, to absolve oneself from such a right. If it’s a property, it should be returned to its original owner; if it’s slandering or backbiting, one should seek the forgiveness of the offended. Allah the Exalted says

“Seek the forgiveness of your Lord and turn to Him in repentance.” (11:3)​

“O ye who believe! Turn to Allah with sincere repentance.” (66:8)​

for more info

In Islam it is totally forbidden to tell others about your sins or to reveal others sins .If you hide others' sins,The Creator will hide your sins.
This is totally the opposite from Christianity where you admit your sins to the priest.
In Islam there shouldn't be any intermediate between you and The Creator.Ask forgiveness directly to Him and He is All Hearing.

Does it give you peace to know that even if you are very sincere then, at best, you may receive forgiveness?

With sincere repentance and the condition of repentance is met,then In sha Allah am in peace.Yet no human can be arrogant with the repentance unless he is confirmed that he can enter paradise.
If my right leg is in the paradise,I cannot be sure my left leg will be in paradise as well
Muslims are connected to The Creator 5 times daily through the daily prayer,we are connected to The Creator during our night prayers,we are connected to The Creator when we read the Quran and act upon it and we are connected to The Creator 24/7 as Muslim began all actions

In The Name Of God ,Most Gracious and Most Merciful
​

If you say that you know you are sincere enough in your repentance before Allah, how do you know you are not deceiving yourself?

As long as a person strongly hold to Quran and the sunnah,no one can go astray. I do admit sometimes I do tempted by Satan,I am just a human.But as a human,I don't forget to seek forgiveness as prescribed in Quran and hadith

Each Muslim should ask for forgiveness 24/7 by saying astafirullah al athim and continue to do good deeds and always renew your intention.Do not do any good deeds for fame.do good deeds for the sake of The Creator and sincere deeds will be accepted. The best perosn in the eye of The Creator is the one with iman and takwa and do good deeds for His sake and do not boast his good deeds

Is your heart really good enough to muster enough sincerity before a Holy and Righteous God?

In Islam no one can judge other person's iman.Only The Creator to judge and all we can do it to strive to be the best servant of The Creator and remind each other so that we do not go astray.So for your question whether by heart is good enough or not,I can't answer at the moment as you have to wait to see on the Day of Judgment where The Creator will reveal everything we did

If you say yes, I honestly and humbly ask you, are you just being prideful?

Honestly and humbly am telling you that I am not being prideful .I have mentioned above that in Islam it is forbidden to pride oneself and we always say Alhamdulilah.am sure you have come across this word before.The meaning of Alhamdulilah is All praises and thanx belong to The Creator alone

If you say you are not being prideful, then are you boasting in your sincerity?

Again my answer is the same.In Islam it is forbidden to boast ones self as no one is superior than The Creator.If I were to boast my sincerity then I should be the follower of Satan as Satan is the one arrogant with his worship.

Am not sure if you know it anyway let me tell you.Satan is made of fire and angels were made of light.Satan worship The Creator more than how the angels worship The Creator.when The Creator asked jins and angels to bow to Adam,every creation bowed except Satan who is arrogant and said he is made from fire and he is a great worshiper of The Creator and he will never bow to someone made from clay.This disobedience has made him to be the enemy of The Creator and enemy of those following the right path.

Even if others don't know your intention,The Creator always know your intention.

I hope you will take the time to answer these questions, with honesty and in a civilized, respectful manner. I do have some more questions to ask you later on, if this discussion is civil and remains that way. But I think these questions are enough for now. I would like to add that this discussion would be more beneficial for everyone involved if you would cease the "holier than thou" attitude, and cease from [falsely] accusing Christians because we disagree with your personal Muslim beliefs. In order for this discussion to be peaceful (respectful, civilized, educational) everyone should try and set aside their personal objections and prejudices against the other religion. It simply isn't beneficial for any of us to talk down to each other in a condescending tone of voice. Do you agree?

I didn't accuse.The meaning of accusing is to say something not true.But whatever i post always have back up evidence from your own scripture.I didn't notice that i have this "holier than thou" attitude. Thank you for noticing it.I am here to exchange facts as how your doing now and am really thankful for that.At least there is someone that I can have a good conversation with
Fell free to ask more questions.. If am alive I shall answer them in sha Allah.
Before i end this post,I shall remind everyone and myself

Good comes from The Creator The Exalted and bad comes from my weak self.

Have a great day.Peace

 

[GigageiTsula]

By the tone of your posts, it does sound like you are being accusing. It seemed to me [personally] that, by the tone of your posts, you believe you are better than Christians. If I was mistaken, then I humbly apologize to you and ask for you to forgive me.

I know of two main areas of common ground you and I share as a Christian and Muslim. The first is we both agree that there is one God—the Creator. The second is we both believe Moses was a prophet of God. As a Muslim, you believe Jesus was a prophet of God. That is what is written in the Qur’an, correct? The Law of God, the Ten Commandments, came through Moses.

Jesus opened up the spirituality of the Ten Commandments. Let me give you an example: He said, "You have heard that it was said by them of old time, 'You shall not kil'l; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say to you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment" (Matthew 5:21,22). God, who is holy and righteous, requires truth in our inward parts (Psalm 51:6). He knows what is in our heart. Not only that, He also knows our every thought and the intentions of our heart.

If we hate someone, the last thought in our minds will be their welfare. I was once told that it is impossible to hate or be mad at someone else if you are praying for that person. That is certainly true. Therefore, for someone to profess Christ, yet hate another person is a liar (1 John 4:20). The Bible further adds that if we hate someone, we are murderers in God's eyes (1 John 3:15). Our sinful actions (in this case hatred) are first created in our heart (Matthew 15:18-20). If we have hatred in our heart, then we are not pure in heart, and we will not see God (Matthew 5:8).

Here is another example of how Jesus taught the spirituality of the Ten Commandments: He said, "You have heard that it was said by them of old time, 'You shall not commit adultery': But I say to you, that whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart" (Matthew 5:27-28). As you can see, lust begins in the heart, which if left unchecked can produce fornication, adultery, perversion, rape, and even murder. It burns in the heart of mankind, and like acid reflux, it forces its way through the flesh like a giant tidal wave with a mind of its own. Galatians 5:19 lists adultery and fornication at the top of the list of the works of the flesh. If we have lust in our heart, then we are not pure in heart, and we will not see God (Matthew 5:8).

Do you understand what I have said so far? If so, then let's look at the Ninth Commandment for a few moments. "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor (Exodus 20:16). The Bible says that God doesn't lie, and the Ninth Commandment makes it clear that bearing false witness against our neighbor is wrong. Bearing false witness in order to cause harm to another, or to avoid the consequences of our own wrong behavior, is never acceptable to a holy God who knows our motive. There is no difference between a white lie, a half-truth, a fib, or an exaggeration.

All are lies in the sight of God. How many murders does one have to commit to be a murderer? Just one. It is the same for lying. If someone has told even one lie, no matter what it was or for what reason, that makes them a liar. God is a God of truth and His Law demands absolute honesty from the heart. Yet the Bible says the heart is deceitful above all things (Jeremiah 17:11). The Bible warns that ALL liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:8).

You mentioned repentance and the way you are suppose to acquire it. If my understanding is correct, the Qur’an says: "Every soul that has sinned, if it possessed all that is on earth, would fain give it in ransom" (Surah 10:54). Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but this means, if he possessed the whole world and offered it to God as a sacrifice for his sins, it wouldn’t be enough to provide atonement for his sins. Is this correct?

Let me illustrate how I see this passage from the Qur’an, please bear with me for a moment. Consider this, you are standing in a court of law, guilty of a serious crime. There is a $50,000 fine. The Judge says, "You have been proven guilty. Do you have anything to say before I pass judgment?" You answer, "Yes, Your Honor, I'm sorry for what I have done. Please forgive me. I promise never to do it again!" Can a judge let you go simply because you are sorry and that you won't commit the crime again? Of course not. There is a penalty to be paid for the crime you committed. There is a $50,000 fine. However, if someone pays the fine for you, can the judge let you go? Yes. Once the fine has been paid, your debt to the law has been satisfied and the judge can set you free.

Yes, that is man's justice, but God's justice is far more stricter than that. His standards of righteousness are much more infinitely higher than ours. I want to make sure you understand that there is nothing that you, as a Muslim, or me, as a Christian, can do to make atonement for our sins. Each of us is guilty before God, and He will not let us go simply because we say that we are sorry or that we won't do it again. Of course, we should be sorry, and we shouldn't do it again. However, the fine for our crime must still be paid. However, two thousand years ago, Jesus paid our fine for us. He suffered and died on the Cross in our place, paying the penalty for our sins. We sinned against God, transgressing His Holy Law, but through Jesus, God will forgive us of our sins. If a person will turn from their sins and trust in Christ, God will dismiss their case - not just because they are sorry, but because Jesus paid their fine.

We cannot establish our own righteousness, my friend. We cannot trust in our own good works to earn our salvation. The only righteousness that God will accept from us is through Jesus Christ and His death upon the Cross. Moses gave instructions to Israel to shed the blood of a spotless lamb to provide a temporary atonement for their sin; and Jesus is the Lamb that God provided to make atonement for our sins. What do you think about what I have said so far?

 

[Van]

Hi Newborn2007, I have not read the responses to your question so if my post is redundant, my bad.

You asked several questions.

1) Why do Christians disobey the ten commandments. For those that apply to us, we disobey because we still sin, even though we strive not to.

2) Why do Christians "reject" the ten commandments. None of the Mosaic Law applies to Christians, except for the ones Jesus commanded that we follow.

3) Why are Christians "allowed" to disobey the ten commandments? I am going to assume the real question is why are we under the Law of Christ, rather than the Law of Moses? Because for Christians who have been placed spiritually in Christ, the Law of Christ replaced it.

One passage of scripture that addresses these concerns is Colossians 2:6-17.

May God Bless

 

[ebia]

He said obey his commandments but he pbuh didn't say worship him

That is correct.

The worship follows from a post-resurrection realisation of who he is, as per Thomas in John 20.

Proofs that Jesus pbuh is not God but he worshiped and commanded all of you to worship One God.

He is the One God. All you've proved is that you haven't got your head around the idea of Trinity, or that Jesus is, at the same time, God incarnate, fully human, Messianic King, Israel incarnate, prophet-like-Moses, etc. You've treated some of those as either/ors when they are both/ands. An idea that is there in proto-form in the very earliest Christian texts - Paul's letters - before any of the gospels were written.

What you mean by "our context".Explain in detail please.

I mean that I am not a Jew living in 2nd Temple Judaism, let alone Son of God in the sense that Jesus is. My calling is to continue my little bit of that post-resurrection story in my time and place, not try to reproduce a one off set of actions that were appropriate to a different time and place (and that I couldn't do anyway). We aren't called to copy Jesus, we are called to continue his work.

yet there are.

All people fall short. Some more than others.

i it not cultural.Proof from your own scripture.

Your "solution" is cultural, not the problem.

why it is inappropriate when Muslims and Jews can obey this rules til today?Are you still eating pork after the swine flue?

It would be inappropriate because the food laws, along with others, were about keeping Israel separate until Jesus' resurrection. With the resurrection the time for that separation is over.

[Proverbs 20:1] "Wine is a luxurious thing, and drunkenness riotous: whosoever is delighted therewith, shall not be wise."
[Ephesians 5:18] "be not drunk with wine, wherein is luxury."

Please explain those two verses.

Scripture, all the way through, condemns drunkeness for the problems it brings but condones appropriate use of alcohol.
Jesus created wine at the wedding at Cana, Isaiah uses wine at feasts as a symbol of the world put right, Paul recommends wine to his friend Timothy, Jesus makes a drink of wine part of the means of participation in his life, death and resurrection, ...

[1 Corinthians 11:5-7] "But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled brings shame upon her head, for it is one and the same thing as if she had had her head shaved. For if a woman does not have her head veiled, she may as well have her hair cut off. But if it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should wear a veil."

[Deuteronomy 22:5] "A woman shall not be clothed with man's apparel, neither shall a man use woman's apparel: for he that doth these things is abominable before God."

When you read the bible you need to understad that, unlike the Koran, it is not supposed to be a timeless set of statements, but an ongoing story with context. Paul's letters aren't timeless reflections on Christian behaviour - they are letters to particular churches struggling with particular issues in their particular time and place. A woman with her hair down in Corinth in AD50 symbolises something you don't want symbolised.

In your own word and understanding is copy but in his pbuh word means commandment.If Muslims can strictly follow the sunnah of Muhammad pbuh,why can't you follow the commandment of your prophet and your messiah?

Because Christianity's view of Jesus is not equivalent to your idea of Muhammed, nor Christianity's idea of the bible equivalent to your idea of the Koran. Jesus didn't come to teach us some rules, he came to change the world and invite us to become part of that change.