Christians owning guns specifically for self defense? (Biblical references, insight?)

[Buzz_B]

Pastors are supposed to "exegete" the Word of God for their congregation. They are to analyze and take what they can know, and explain it to their listeners in a manner that they know they will be able to relate to.

Let's use Acts 24:15 to demonstrate how that is properly done.

There are a number of Greek words which can be translated as "wicked" in the Greek of the NT. The word used for "unjust" at Acts 24:15 is G0094 "adikos." A pastor worth his salt knows that the perspective of that Greek word is directed towards specific acts of the unjust person rather than a statement as to their true character. A pastor worth his salt knows that if Paul was meaning to impugn the character of those falsely accusing him as being wicked Paul would have chosen the Greek word G2556 "kakos", which refers to essential character and means "worthless."

But hey, what do I know anyway. I am just a 15 watt light bulb compared to the glaring light you have been shown.

 

[Almost there]

When Paul spoke he would often times resort to the culturally embedded Greek's way of logic. We need to learn how that system of reasoning worked. My pastor just taught a lesson yesterday and explained this principle at work when Paul wrote Rom 8:8-9. It can confuse us to an extent if we can not see what was being addressed.

Let me guess.. You play bass. Your favorite groups is the Byrds. And, headphones is your preferred way to listen....

And, you are upset that God wants you to ditch that bass for another.

For the Bible clearly states... "

" Fret not yourself. "​

Heh. I play bass - Yes
My favorite group - Old Genisis
I use headphones when I practice or am in the recording studio.
I have abandoned the classic rock scene and actually gone full circle in playing bass. i.e. I started in 1998 playing Hillsongs and similar, and have returned to it, but with 20 years of experience in every genre (excep hip-hop and rap) to work from.

And I agree with you regarding bible interpretation.

 

[razzelflabben]

I thought about telling you all this story in private but since gene is back and doing his usual song and dance that is contrary to scripture I will post it here. I urge you to listen carefully to the story.

The posts of some here remind me of my father. He would do something hateful and sinful and when called on it would cry and apologize and then before the words were cold he would return to the same behavior. (you all refuse to apologize but otherwise it's the same) The thing is, he was so fond of his pride that he refused to do anything about it to the point that his pride drove him to the brink of insanity, literally. In fact on at least one occasion he called the police. The same police took him to the psych warn for evaluation because his pride had driven him so far from the truth of reality that there was no other choice. I watched this growing up and lived with it for so long that I knew I could never live with myself if I allowed my own pride to become that precious to me. My father's own pride was and did drive him to a horrible death both spiritually and physically. Some of you all make posts that remind me of him. Pride, especially that kind of unchecked pride is very destructive and harmful to the body (body of Christ). In fact, the way some here have behaved would have driven me away from God if I had not been as solid in Christ as I am.

Now, let me pull this story together for you to the point of the day. IT does more harm than good to pretend to be something/someone you are not. It is evil to pretend to speak for God when you do not. But the most disturbing thing I have seen in this thread is a pride so out of control that some of you all mock God for the call and equipping He has chosen to do for in that you miss God altogether. This is evident by the way you refuse to look at the scriptures that are presented in exchange for your own opinions about what you think God should have said.

But one thing that became painfully clear about my father's pride is that until or unless he was willing to do something about it, there could be no peace. He was determined to keep peace out of the household and out of the lives of those around him. Just as some of you all are determined to keep peace out of this thread. You see, he was determined to make people as miserable as he was, just as some of you all seem to be bent on doing. That is when I learned the importance of Matthew 10:14. You all have been warned by God through scripture. You all have been forgiven repeatedly just to watch you go back to the same old poor behaviors and sinful pride. I have been patient and kind and Loved with the Love of 1 Cor. 13 and still you refuse to listen, you mock, belittle, falsely accuse, and boast of things that are not yours to boast of. You continue to challenge God's call and equipping and purpose as if God were not real. To that end, I will no longer respond to either of the two trouble makers on this thread out of humble obedience to God as taught to me many many many years ago by my father. I will continue to pray for you both and hope that someday you will open your hearts enough to hear the voice of God in a very real and humble way.

 

[razzelflabben]

What's contained in his Word is alive and effectual/powerful/energetic {energes}.

But, only when its properly understood. For only the truth will make you free.

Pastors are supposed to "exegete" the Word of God for their congregation. They are to analyze and take what they can know, and explain it to their listeners in a manner that they know they will be able to relate to.

Its not our job to read the Bible for our self and to try to exegete. For most believers are not equipped by God to do that. Its not their gift.

But.... Reading the Bible gives the average believer lots of healthy questions.

That is good. For when they are finally answered their sense of appreciation is expressed to God. Our job as a believer is to listen and learn and grow in grace. But, first we must be led by the Spirit to a good teacher. We may go through a list of teachers before we find the right one.

It becomes obvious after a time that not all believers who claim they are being led by the Spirit, are. As seen in the mess of contradictory teachings we find today.

1 Timothy 2:15 disagrees with you and a people who are studied are much harder to deceive...just catching up before ignoring you.

 

[GenemZ]

OK, genez, not a problem.

Ac 24:15

"I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept,
that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both
of the just and the unjust.

It is not a bad thing. It is a hope. For both the just and the unjust it is hope. Ignore that if you must. These unjust are not those declared wicked.

The "they themselves also accept" are those falsely accusing Paul. Not all of them are wicked but all of them who were doing that to Paul were "unjust."

<><><><><><>

Mat 18:8

“If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw
it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than
to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.

You go right ahead and believe that people will be resurrected to life "maimed or crippled" if you feel you must.

<><><><><><>

If you refuse to see that there are huge defects to what you believe I am not responsible for you. I tried to help you.

If you ever change your mind you can find me until they execute me.

Or just come up with another half baked objection with which to flatter yourself into keeping your self believing you are right.

Luke 6:25 "Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep."

Not much I can do when your tunnel vision keeps superimposing the same standard for the resurrection of the believer.... and the ones who are to die the second death.

Keep quoting Scriptures like balloons ..... up in the air they go. To amuse. But never making one stand more solid because you never include understanding. Just memorize and throw out passages to make it look like you have something.

Many can memorize. I have witnessed to it before. I have seen a Bible Scripture memorization competition a church once.. But, how many of those who do understand what they are memorizing?

Gimmicks do not edify. They only puff up.

 

[GenemZ]

I thought about telling you all this story in private but since gene is back and doing his usual song and dance that is contrary to scripture I will post it here. I urge you to listen carefully to the story.

The posts of some here remind me of my father. He would do something hateful and sinful and when called on it would cry and apologize and then before the words were cold he would return to the same behavior.

You have an unresolved serious problem if you see me that way.

I have heard of people like your dad. Sorry. But, you need to come out of the bad dream world that makes you see others in a way that is colored by your own scarred soul caused by abuse. Only the Truth taught properly for your need will make you free from it. Until then, your perception will be a prisoner of your past always coloring your present. Jesus became poor so we can become rich.

 

[GenemZ]

1 Timothy 2:15 disagrees with you and a people who are studied are much harder to deceive...just catching up before ignoring you.

Instead of just saying that? (which is all you did) Tell how 1 Timothy 2:15 disagrees with what I said.


"But women will be saved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint."

Not all women can be that. What if a woman can not bear children? She will not be saved?

Besides./. Faith = knowing sound teaching and comprehending it!

"Consequently, faith comes from hearing (perceiving) the
message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ." Rom 10:17


Its makes no sense because you throw out verses that contain certain keywords, but is not speaking of what you wish to make them say.

Go ahead. Make me into your mean dad. If that comforts you in your stand? Go ahead. That's how the fake news media works as well when they do not understand what it is they are opposing. Make stuff up.

 

[Buzz_B]

Not much I can do when your tunnel vision keeps superimposing the same standard for the resurrection of the believer.... and the ones who are to die the second death.

Keep quoting Scriptures like balloons ..... up in the air they go. To amuse. But never making one stand more solid because you never include understanding. Just memorize and throw out passages to make it look like you have something.

Many can memorize. I have witnessed to it before. I have seen a Bible Scripture memorization competition a church once.. But, how many of those who do understand what they are memorizing?

Gimmicks do not edify. They only puff up.

One excuse is as good as another when the real reason for one's words is that they just wish to avoid thinking about another probable view.

That is again where your pastors have left you ill-equipped. For If they had taught you properly what would have came to your mind is that Jesus had spoken of two groups in memorial tombs; (1) those who have passed from death to life already, and (2) those who will be tried by a tribunal.

Now do yourself a favor and investigate the Greek words used at John 5:29 and learn that your KJV mislead you. Look up the word they translated as "damnation" and see if it does refer to appearing before a tribunal where decisions are made as to ones fate.

Or just keep letting your words of disdain describe your own self more so than anyone else.

That is entirely up to you.

 

[GenemZ]

One excuse is as good as another when the real reason for one's words is that they just wish to avoid thinking about another probable view.

Why are you avoiding this then? You are avoiding what it says. You are.

Ac 24:15

"I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept,
that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both
of the just and the unjust.​

There will be TWO resurrections. Believer. And, unbeliever.

Stop avoiding.

 

[Buzz_B]

Why are you avoiding this then? You are avoiding what it says. You are.

Ac 24:15

"I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept,
that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both
of the just and the unjust.​

There will be TWO resurrections. Believer. And, unbeliever.

Stop avoiding.

Perhaps the better question is, Why do you avoid having to think about what I have already spoken to you concerning Acts 24:15 ?

You contradict yourself in that you on one hand say that I present it in a way you refuse to agree with and the other hand you claim I do not address it.

Who did that to Jesus? And how really is it that the word he spoke judges us in the last day? John 12:48

 

[GenemZ]

Heh. I play bass - Yes
My favorite group - Old Genesis
I use headphones when I practice or am in the recording studio.
I have abandoned the classic rock scene and actually gone full circle in playing bass. i.e. I started in 1998 playing Hillsongs and similar, and have returned to it, but with 20 years of experience in every genre (excep hip-hop and rap) to work from.

And I agree with you regarding bible interpretation.

I went to Bible college with one of the original Genesis keyboard players. From Ireland. Pastor Steve Houston. Very interesting player.

I play drums. In the late 60's I was into very heavy blues ... then I met Christ. Gave up drums for many years, and refused to go near them.. On my fiftieth birthday my family threw me a very surprise b'day party .. which included a set of introductory level drums. After years of growing in grace, I then found myself transformed and much to my pleasant surprise playing a form of jazz.

 

[GenemZ]

Perhaps the better question is, Why do you avoid having to think about what I have already spoken to you concerning Acts 24:15 ?

You contradict yourself in that you on one hand say that I present it in a way you refuse to agree with and the other hand you claim I do not address it.

Who did that to Jesus? And how really is it that the word he spoke judges us in the last day? John 12:48

I am tired of this food fight. Have a nice Day.

 

[Buzz_B]

To genez and any other interested party.

A more detailed approach to understanding Acts 24:15 is as follows:

We always benefit from where possible first gaining understanding of the setting behind behind things which are spoken by anyone in the Scriptures.

The setting for Acts 24:25 is that Paul, an apostle of Christ, was presenting a defense of himself before Roman Governor Felix due to accusations which had been levied against him by his own Jewish people and their religious leaders.

Getting to understand Paul's mindset helps us understand Paul's words better, for we are then able to synchronize our feelings with his.

Paul, (who was known to his Jewish brothers as Saul of Tarsus), had been a zealous persecutor of Christians prior to his conversion to Christianity, beginning with his participation in the stoning to death of Stephen when he was yet a young man (Acts 7:58; Acts 8:1-3) and proceeding on from there to demonstrate himself more zealous than most of his own flesh and blood in what he at that time thought was necessary in defense of the faith passed onto them of their Jewish fathers throughout history. (Galatians 1:13-14, 22-23; 1 Corinthians 15:8-9; 1 Timothy 1:12-16)

This past gave Paul great compassion toward his as yet spiritually blind flesh and blood. (Romans 9:1-5; Romans 10:1-4)

And so it is that when we read Acts 24:15 we need to understand that in speaking of his own flesh and blood who were accusing him before Roman Governor Felix, Paul chose the Greek word, G0094 “adikos” because that word has room for compassion within its meaning. Paul was not standing before Governor Felix foolishly exclaiming to the Governor that these were just men who were slated for eternal damnation. How disrespectful and foolish that would have been. That would have only predictably excited the Governor's disdain toward him and that would be totally out of character for Paul.

You may wish to reconsider what I told you in post 621.

But in the end it is all up to you.

 

[razzelflabben]

You have an unresolved serious problem if you see me that way.

I have heard of people like your dad. Sorry. But, you need to come out of the bad dream world that makes you see others in a way that is colored by your own scarred soul caused by abuse. Only the Truth taught properly for your need will make you free from it. Until then, your perception will be a prisoner of your past always coloring your present. Jesus became poor so we can become rich.

lol only problem, some of the same non sense he said you are repeating...so not so different as you think...sorry just felt like that needed clarified..

oh and I expected one of you to try to pull this and if you don't recognize the healing God has preformed in my life to heal me from the abuse then you my friend do not know the power of the Living God.

 

[Almost there]

I went to Bible college with one of the original Genesis keyboard players. From Ireland. Pastor Steve Houston. Very interesting player.

I play drums. In the late 60's I was into very heavy blues ... then I met Christ. Gave up drums for many years, and refused to go near them.. On my fiftieth birthday my family threw me a very surprise b'day party .. which included a set of introductory level drums. After years of growing in grace, I then found myself transformed and much to my pleasant surprise playing a form of jazz.

Shortly after I became a Christian I did the "secular music purge" and dumped most of my records. This was around 1981. I've since come back to it, but differently. I bought back some of what I dumped, and left some of it where it belonged. I collect 70's "muscle separates" stereo systems, turntables and vinyl. I have a few thousand records now and find that I have very little need to buy anything else, though I did pick up Lorde on vinyl and plan on gettin' me some ZZ Ward.

Regarding playing, one of the great things about the modern Christian music is it gives me, from a bass player's perspective, music that is challenging to play and musically rewarding. I took Phillip Phillip's "Home", which has pseudo Christian lyrics, and wrote an overtly Christian version with an added verse.

 

[SBC]

I thought about telling you all this story in private but since gene is back and doing his usual song and dance that is contrary to scripture I will post it here. I urge you to listen carefully to the story.

The posts of some here remind me of my father. He would do something hateful and sinful and when called on it would cry and apologize and then before the words were cold he would return to the same behavior. (you all refuse to apologize but otherwise it's the same) The thing is, he was so fond of his pride that he refused to do anything about it to the point that his pride drove him to the brink of insanity, literally. In fact on at least one occasion he called the police. The same police took him to the psych warn for evaluation because his pride had driven him so far from the truth of reality that there was no other choice. I watched this growing up and lived with it for so long that I knew I could never live with myself if I allowed my own pride to become that precious to me. My father's own pride was and did drive him to a horrible death both spiritually and physically. Some of you all make posts that remind me of him. Pride, especially that kind of unchecked pride is very destructive and harmful to the body (body of Christ). In fact, the way some here have behaved would have driven me away from God if I had not been as solid in Christ as I am.

Now, let me pull this story together for you to the point of the day. IT does more harm than good to pretend to be something/someone you are not. It is evil to pretend to speak for God when you do not. But the most disturbing thing I have seen in this thread is a pride so out of control that some of you all mock God for the call and equipping He has chosen to do for in that you miss God altogether. This is evident by the way you refuse to look at the scriptures that are presented in exchange for your own opinions about what you think God should have said.

But one thing that became painfully clear about my father's pride is that until or unless he was willing to do something about it, there could be no peace. He was determined to keep peace out of the household and out of the lives of those around him. Just as some of you all are determined to keep peace out of this thread. You see, he was determined to make people as miserable as he was, just as some of you all seem to be bent on doing. That is when I learned the importance of Matthew 10:14. You all have been warned by God through scripture. You all have been forgiven repeatedly just to watch you go back to the same old poor behaviors and sinful pride. I have been patient and kind and Loved with the Love of 1 Cor. 13 and still you refuse to listen, you mock, belittle, falsely accuse, and boast of things that are not yours to boast of. You continue to challenge God's call and equipping and purpose as if God were not real. To that end, I will no longer respond to either of the two trouble makers on this thread out of humble obedience to God as taught to me many many many years ago by my father. I will continue to pray for you both and hope that someday you will open your hearts enough to hear the voice of God in a very real and humble way.

Jesus came to DIVIDE.
Luke 12:51

The effects of His Division is well observed.

Men like to Claim BELIEF WHILE ADDING, their Belief, is based upon THEIR understanding, taught to them, via other men and philosophies of men.

However TRUE BELIEF is based upon TRUSTING TO BELIEVE, "without understanding".

The "understanding", IS NOT A GIFT from men!!

The "understanding", IS A GIFT FROM GOD, to those WHO, HAVE GIVEN their Life to God.
1 John 5:20.

IF a man SEEKS mans understanding, he WILL find what he SEEKS.

IF a man SEEKS Gods understanding, he
WILL find what he SEEKS.

The wisdom of the world is foolishness with God.
1 Cor 3:19

And thus continues the DIVIDE among men.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[razzelflabben]

Jesus came to DIVIDE.
Luke 12:51

The effects of His Division is well observed.

Men like to Claim BELIEF WHILE ADDING, their Belief, is based upon THEIR understanding, taught to them, via other men and philosophies of men.

However TRUE BELIEF is based upon TRUSTING TO BELIEVE, "without understanding".

The "understanding", IS NOT A GIFT from men!!

The "understanding", IS A GIFT FROM GOD, to those WHO, HAVE GIVEN their Life to God.
1 John 5:20.

IF a man SEEKS mans understanding, he WILL find what he SEEKS.

IF a man SEEKS Gods understanding, he
WILL find what he SEEKS.

The wisdom of the world is foolishness with God.
1 Cor 3:19

And thus continues the DIVIDE among men.

God Bless,
SBC

that is kind of how this whole "battle" began...in course of conversation I mentioned that God called and equipped me to study and thus I do so through the power of the indwelling HS. A couple of people didn't like that and so they went on the attack...there is obviously more to it as in I asked them to look at scripture and context and discuss that and they didn't want to in exchange for their own ideas which led to accusations of me not being will to be humble, not being called by God, not being smart enough to study for myself, etc. etc. etc.

But definitely amen to what you are saying here. It always amazes me how we claim to believe but when it comes right down to it our only faith is in self.

 

[SBC]

that is kind of how this whole "battle" began...in course of conversation I mentioned that God called and equipped me to study and thus I do so through the power of the indwelling HS. A couple of people didn't like that and so they went on the attack...there is obviously more to it as in I asked them to look at scripture and context and discuss that and they didn't want to in exchange for their own ideas which led to accusations of me not being will to be humble, not being called by God, not being smart enough to study for myself, etc. etc. etc.

But definitely amen to what you are saying here. It always amazes me how we claim to believe but when it comes right down to it our only faith is in self.

I GET precisely what you are saying.
Some divert, from the actual Scripture, to bullying the speaker....AS IF, it justifies their position.

However, Scripture itself teaches, it is not the speaker they are really rejecting, but rather God Himself.

1 Samuel 8: 7

Be of great comfort, as the Comforter abides in you.

Let not YOUR heart be troubled, for what others do unto you.

A man may KILL your body, but there is nothing more he can do.
He cannot KILL your soul, or your spirit.

Brothers IN Christ, we know ARE FEW, and exalt Him, His Word, NOT Challenge it.

Greater is He that IS in you, than He that is IN the World.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[razzelflabben]

I GET precisely what you are saying.
Some divert, from the actual Scripture, to bullying the speaker....AS IF, it justifies their position.

However, Scripture itself teaches, it is not the speaker they are really rejecting, but rather God Himself.

1 Samuel 8: 7

Be of great comfort, as the Comforter abides in you.

Let not YOUR heart be troubled, for what others do unto you.

A man may KILL your body, but there is nothing more he can do.
He cannot KILL your soul, or your spirit.

Brothers IN Christ, we know ARE FEW, and exalt Him, His Word, NOT Challenge it.

Greater is He that IS in you, than He that is IN the World.

God Bless,
SBC

again I say amen...in fact, I talked about that very thing with these two men...my biggest problem is that they were attacking God not me. That is something I had to learn long long ago.

You know, I found it interesting and telling that one of the two posters in question recognized the abuse of the things he was saying when it applied to someone else but refuses to recognize it in his own posts.

 

[GenemZ]

lol only problem, some of the same non sense he said you are repeating...so not so different as you think...sorry just felt like that needed clarified..

oh and I expected one of you to try to pull this and if you don't recognize the healing God has preformed in my life to heal me from the abuse then you my friend do not know the power of the Living God.

Alright.... you had your say. Now go find someone else to nag and keep projecting your unresolved problems onto. Life is too short to try to make a point with someone with that root popping out onto others. Y

es... God can heal you. But, not the way you are going. Bitterness is still there.

"See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God
and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble
and defile many." Heb 12:15​

That is what you are doing. You can't see it. But, we can sure feel it when its pointed our way. You keep accusing others of what they are not doing.

Bitterness drives. God draws.

You are going back on Ignore. Life is too short.