Christians owning guns specifically for self defense? (Biblical references, insight?)

seventysevens said:

Hmmm could be that he is providing safety , security and protection to/for his family/household. Perhaps if your life was about to end because some evil person is about to harm/kill you and the evil person was prevented from doing you harm by a person who shot the evil intruder you would be thanking that person for saving your life

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You're more likely to kill someone who lives in the house, take martial arts, it's safer.

razzelflabben said:

lol since I already quoted you and pointed out the problem and you even admitted to changing the topic without warning I am sure we are done since you are still being rude.

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Ken Rank said:

Guns did not exist in that day. That aside, God does not change... are we allowed to steal now? Serve other gods? No... so why would it now be wrong to defend your home when the God who "does not change" said it isn't a sin to defend yourself? God was one thing long ago and something else now? That would mean He isn't the same yesterday, today and forever.

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Well the Old Testament gives rules for divorce but Jesus says whoever divorces his wife commits adultery. Our standards may need to be higher than what is allowed in the Old Testament.

Christie insb said:

Well the Old Testament gives rules for divorce but Jesus says whoever divorces his wife commits adultery. Our standards may need to be higher than what is allowed in the Old Testament.

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Why the man divorcing his wife?
What about a wife who divorces her husband?

Have a scripture or opinion?

God Bless,
SBC

SBC said:

Why the man divorcing his wife?
What about a wife who divorces her husband?

Have a scripture or opinion?

God Bless,
SBC

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I don't think women were able to divorce their husbands on their own initiative in the Old Testament. There is a very disgusting story in the book of Judges about a concubine who tried to leave. Let's just say it doesn't end well.

disciple1 said:

You're more likely to kill someone who lives in the house, take martial arts, it's safer.

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That works , but if the intruder has a gun, especially if it is a semi-automatic like that used in the mass shootings recently martial arts not be effective if they shoot you before you get close enough to nab 'em

seventysevens said:

That works , but if the intruder has a gun, especially if it is a semi-automatic like that used in the mass shootings recently martial arts not be effective if they shoot you before you get close enough to nab 'em

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Do you want to live with having killed someone, maybe even a family member.

disciple1 said:

Do you want to live with having killed someone, maybe even a family member.

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I will not be killing anyone , but your persistence on this seems to imply that you do not think it is possible for any gun owners to handle their weapons responsibly, We have a RIGHT to bear arms and if someone broke into/invaded your home with an AR-15 with bumpstock and choose to shoot at you martial arts won't help if you cannot get close enough to the invader to touch them whereas a gun of your own may save your life and the life of your family. Our modern world is going the way of the wild wild west

Kaylaherin said:

This is a very hot topic that I am sure many have noticed. Both in Christendom and also outside of it as well. I have a stance on this, and I know there are many different stances. I know of people personally, that are believers that feel that we should have weapons in our home for defense, and also those that do not believe we should defend in a way that brings bodily harm to anyone? It seems that this is a topic that is extremely controversial.

I am interested to know if there are any other believers that feel as if they would not own a gun or a weapon in self defense, and why. I am also interested in knowing from the other perspective, those that are for owning them and do own guns and weapons, and why? Or even if you desire to not own any for that purpose, but are not against someone owning them?

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Correct action follows this rule:

"So in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you, for this sums up the law and the prophets." -- Christ our Saviour

If I were in a crazed enough state of mind to break into someone's house, I'd want them to fire warning shots so that I could run away.

Thus, I am then instructed to do exactly that --'fire warning shot(s) or warn -- when it's a situation where that can work.

And it will in fact work with almost all burglars.

The next escalation would be to shoot to wound somewhat without killing, when that can work, which usually would be enough.

See?

Christians should not try to kill.

And they would hardly ever be in a defense situation where shooting to kill is the only good choice, but there are some rare situations one can think of where it's that stark, like if a mass shooter is trying to kill many people ongoing, and it's no other good choice available but shoot him down first. But that is very very rare.

God knows what is in our hearts, as we act.

seventysevens said:

I will not be killing anyone , but your persistence on this seems to imply that you do not think it is possible for any gun owners to handle their weapons responsibly, We have a RIGHT to bear arms and if someone broke into/invaded your home with an AR-15 with bumpstock and choose to shoot at you martial arts won't help if you cannot get close enough to the invader to touch them whereas a gun of your own may save your life and the life of your family. Our modern world is going the way of the wild wild west

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2 Corinthians chapter 10 verse 4
The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.

Luke chapter 13 verse 4
Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?
Luke chapter 13 verse 5
No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”

Most people don't even know how to repent.

Is this taken out of context, or is the bible just sometimes un popular?

disciple1 said:

2 Corinthians chapter 10 verse 4
The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.

Luke chapter 13 verse 4
Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?
Luke chapter 13 verse 5
No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”

Most people don't even know how to repent.

Is this taken out of context, or is the bible just sometimes un popular?

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I don't really know what you are trying to get at ... the OT is filled with killing , Moses came down from the mountain with the 2 tablets he saw what was happening with the golden calf and commanded that they that caused this should be purged from their midst and over a thousand people were killed .
Did David not kill Goliath and become king? Did God not kill the pharaohs army at the Red Sea ? There is a difference between killing to save your own life and the lives of others and the act of murder
If another country decides to send bomber jets over America to drop nuclear bombs to kill Americans should America just allow it to happen and not defend the lives of the people of America?

In today's world the bible is becoming unpopular more and more each day even Pres Obama did his absolute best to destroy Christianity in America on every front that he could , subtly trying to avoid the public knowing about it , from the military to every way he could. The major news networks and media do not want bible based anything in our country.

I am curious, how far do you think we should extend the principle of loving one's enemy?[/QUOTE]

Halbhh said:

I grew up in the country, and occasionally we had to shoot a animal for defense or even food, which isn't in fundamental principal different than using a bow and arrow, for hunting.

But, today, the U.S. is out of whack on guns.

These guns in the news are not hunting rifles or merely a self-defense handgun even...

but instead they are assault weapons designed to kill a lot of human beings quickly.

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I would agree with you that today the U.S. is totally out of whack on guns, but for a different reason.
The crafters of the second amendment intended that the citizens possess firepower that could keep the government from turning tyrannical. That means the founding father's meant the weapons in possession of the people be on equal footing with that of the army of the government, otherwise a resistance could easily be quashed by the Government's superior weaponry.
The weapon of the times was the musket, it was a military grade weapon, and common among the non-military populace.
When people imply that assault rifles aren't covered by the second amendment they are implying that... I don't know the Forefathers saw into the future somehow and decided to leave the words "assault rifle" out of the constitution?
Of course not, they didn't even know they existed, but the intent of the Founders was for the citizenry to be on par in arms with the military.
Does the First Amendment not apply to television or radio because they hadn't been invented yet?
Does the fourth amendment (the right to refuse unreasonable search and seizure) not apply to your car because cars hadn't been invented yet?
To this day a cop has to find some legitimate (albeit sometimes very tenuous) reason to pull someone over and search their vehicle.

Also I can love someone and still not approve of their choices. I can love an enemy for being a misdirected and twisted image of God, that doesn't mean I won't use any means necessary to stop them from harming myself or others.
Love others as you would love yourself? I wouldn't kill, rape, or steal from myself... would you?

Kaylaherin said:

This is a very hot topic that I am sure many have noticed. Both in Christendom and also outside of it as well. I have a stance on this, and I know there are many different stances. I know of people personally, that are believers that feel that we should have weapons in our home for defense, and also those that do not believe we should defend in a way that brings bodily harm to anyone? It seems that this is a topic that is extremely controversial.

I am interested to know if there are any other believers that feel as if they would not own a gun or a weapon in self defense, and why. I am also interested in knowing from the other perspective, those that are for owning them and do own guns and weapons, and why? Or even if you desire to not own any for that purpose, but are not against someone owning them?

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Old Testament
It is important to begin by looking at the Old Testament, though we are not under Old Testament law, because it contains the most specific language about self-defense and reveals a lot about God’s standards and perspective. The Old Testament very clearly states that God created man in His own image and intended for him to rule the earth (Gen. 1:26-28). Man’s ability to make judgments and govern derives from his godly image and delegated authority. Man's God-like nature also leads to very strict standards regarding the treatment of people.

God said to Noah, “from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man. Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man” (Gen. 9:5-6). So God created a system of capital punishment to be implemented by mankind; man was to take the life of whoever sheds another man’s blood. Because God made man in His own image, murder becomes a crime against God and demands capital punishment. There is no provision in the Old Testament for rehabilitation of a murderer.

There are those who view every act that ends a human life as murder, including war and capital punishment. If this were true, then whoever executes a murderer would himself become a murderer who must be executed by someone else and so on until presumably there would only be one person left. This kind of argument is sometimes used to imply the fallacy of capital punishment, but in reality is based on an incorrect assumption: that every incident of taking a human life is murder. That assumption is not supported by Scripture.

We must realize that the Old and New Testaments are very different. The Old Testament is earth-based and focuses primarily on human needs for physical provision and protection and civil, religious and moral law. Its blessings and curses are physical and psychological in nature, relating to crops and herds, safety from enemies, physical health and so on. The Old Testament relates to man’s earthly existence in the period before Christ. The New Testament, on the other hand, focuses primarily on repentance and spiritual development rather than physical existence. It has been said the Old Testament blesses a person on earth, while the New Testament prepares a person to leave the earth.

A Biblical Perspective of Self-Defense

There are certain basic expediting factors which underlay the problem of gun violence growing in society. The honest answer to the question this thread presents must consider those expediting factors.

Unrighteous Commercialism: Our self-made world revolves around money. The most dominant push toward wars and armament is conducted by those who make a profit from it. It was for that very reason that you even heard president Trump in his campaign saying how he likes war.

So long as commercialism is permitted to have a part in anything to do with weapons you will find the same hyped up advertising at work twisting the public mind endeavoring to grow their market as we find with any other product. And what I see thus far in this thread is that we have all been duped to various degrees in the name of false advertising and that has grown our the problem over time to the point where we are now reaping what we have sowed.

And I do mean, “what we have sowed”, for we should have forced the commercial systems of this world into check long ago but instead we all joined the bandwagon wanting our piece of the profits pie.

What we see in civilian life is but the spill-over of this age of commercial insanity.

Showing how culpable we all really are, Isaiah 2:4 has been touted as the goal of the United Nations ever since it's founding. That is very easy for one to check out for their self on the web. But we have not done as Isaiah 2:4 says, and have only made a mockery of it.

Isaiah 2:4 “And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.” (KJV)

In conclusion I say, none of us are justified to kill, for we created the lion's share of the situation which now causes us to have to live in fear. We are already guilty by virtue of that alone and God is not now going to justify the guilty to kill as a means of cleaning up our mess.

We should have obeyed long ago. Our only hope now is to repent our vile use of weaponry and repent the greed which sowed it. We must trust fully in God to clean up the mess we made, his way. Jesus Christ modeled that way to us.

Look at how violence has been dramatized by our commercial media as forms of entertainment where one side is always the hero. We are not heroes for participating in the devastation of the lives of so many and if after the devastation of Irag and Syria we do not see that we are blind. It has not made the problem better but worse. And why? Because our way has been an evil approach born of ignorance and fostered by greed, from which nothing good can come. The results which we are experiencing proves that beyond a reasonable doubt.

Galatians 6:7 “Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.”

Indeed we are reaping. But will we repent?

Christie insb said:

I don't think women were able to divorce their husbands on their own initiative in the Old Testament. There is a very disgusting story in the book of Judges about a concubine who tried to leave. Let's just say it doesn't end well.

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I guess I hadn't really thought about that before. Thanks.

God Bless,
SBC

I believe Peter demonstrated 'concealed carry' the minute he unsheathed his sword in the garden. But what he did not have was the right 'spirit' to use it in that incidence. Luke 9:54-55. The spiritual 'father' of his action in the garden, was just as wrong as the last time Jesus said "Get behind me Satan"...while looking at Peter.

Kaylaherin said:

This is a very hot topic that I am sure many have noticed. Both in Christendom and also tside of it as well. I have a stance on this, and I know there are many different stances. I know of people personally, that are believers that feel that we should have weapons in our home for defense, and also those that do not believe we should defend in a way that brings bodily harm to anyone? It seems that this is a topic that is extremely controversial.

I am interested to know if there are any other believers that feel as if they would not own a gun or a weapon in self defense, and why. I am also interested in knowing from the other perspective, those that are for owning them and do own guns and weapons, and why? Or even if you desire to not own any for that purpose, but are not against someone owning them?

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Peter the Apostle owned a sword for self defense, this was towards the end of the Lords earthly ministry. If Jesus had a problem with this I'm sure Peter wouldn't be carrying it.

The Bible says the Authority is to punish the evil doer. A Christian off duty officer carrying weapon.

We live in a tree hugging, liberal, save the whales, kill a child world.

50 years ago every kid on the block, in the big city had a BB gun.

On and On.

Hillsage said:

I believe Peter demonstrated 'concealed carry' the minute he unsheathed his sword in the garden. But what he did not have was the right 'spirit' to use it in that incidence. Luke 9:54-55. The spiritual 'father' of his action in the garden, was just as wrong as the last time Jesus said "Get behind me Satan"...while looking at Peter.

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can you imagine how hard it is to hide the fact that you are carrying a sword? lol just had that image when I read your post...sorry for the silly...agreed and carry on.

razzelflabben said:

can you imagine how hard it is to hide the fact that you are carrying a sword? lol just had that image when I read your post...sorry for the silly...agreed and carry on.

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I know it's silly. And a 'letter of the law' perspective of my silly comment, would just keep one from getting the 'spirit of the law' understanding I was trying to make. You appear to have 'caught the spirit' of my comment.

Hillsage said:

I know it's silly. And a 'letter of the law' perspective of my silly comment, would just keep one from getting the 'spirit of the law' understanding I was trying to make. You appear to have 'caught the spirit' of my comment.

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yeah but I couldn't resist being silly either....the image still makes me smile. Thanks for understanding my comments and not turning them into something they were not! Very refreshing.