”Buzz_B post 717 – Setting Up For A Point Ahead” said:
I do not see it as a contest for me to win or lose. I speak honestly to her regardless of what she does.
For a while I held onto a more optimistic approach and honestly believed I saw a measure of honesty in her. And so I tried to appeal to that honesty I thought I saw. But it does not prove to really be there.
Realizing that, my approach toward her will now change. If you wish to see it as if she has won, so be it. You have that right. I on the other hand felt it necessary to make it clear to her why I would ignore her from here forward so that she might be left with something to think about to help her. And I am fully aware of how dangerous that is, for I know man's rules are fickle. How one interprets another person's intentions is as varied as there are grains of sand on a beach.
But it is a Christian obligation to call a sinner's attention to their sin. If they do not do it who will? And with no one speaking up all they ever find is the comfort of false comforters to make them feel OK unconditionally as they are. They become like unwatered seeds where the one with the water just comforts them that they are OK even though dry, instead of pouring water upon them. And there is then no growth. Worse, the sun eventually wilts them away.
Someone has to be willing to die so that others might live. If speaking what needs to be spoken in an environment where in it is risky to speak it means dying at the hands of the many varied perceptions of others, someone has to be willing to die. Even as Christ for us.
“Buzz_B – post 719 - Moving Onto The Point Which Was Prepared For” said:
And now, genez, think about the footprint in my post 717 as the spiritual footprint of a physical one you spoke much about earlier in this thread. You have said that one has to be willing to die in man's wars for their freedom.
Now, remembering what I expressed in post 717 can you see that dying in a fleshly fight for freedom only saves life temporarily? Can you see that we need to make our death have far greater meaning by dying in a way that helps others to think in godly ways so as to begin to break their bondage to sin and help them be made more and more firm in Christ?
And can you then understand that some of us believe that it is a waste of our life to lay it down in wars of this flesh when there is a so much more important way for us to die on behalf of others? A way that carries with it the hope of helping them toward life-everlasting?
All through history since Christ many have had to face literal death for the sake of that life-saving spiritual message and many have had to die the death over and over again spiritually at the hands of those who would silence them in various ways. That is our real battle. And that is the battle Christ had in mind when he said that he came not to put peace on this earth.
As you have disagreed that what I was doing was what I said in post 717 that I was doing, lets assume you are right that I was not doing that. It is not a big deal to me as the point I am seeking to make is of far greater value.
Look at the basis of the truth in the Scriptures supporting doing it that way. As Paul said, “So then death worketh in us, but life in you.” 2 Corinthians 4:12
We do end up many ways delivered to death for the sake of building up the congregation of God. Not only because we are often opposed by forces outside of the congregation but also because the power of the flesh which yet needs to die away from the congregation is naturally going to resist us and battle us. We know that flesh is there kept alive by those among us who have not learned yet how to submit it to death with Christ and that means that we have to be ready to begin that bearing battle with them as they need chastising but cannot yet receive it apart from condemning the messenger of God. And so we die daily for them in a spiritual sense as their flesh attacks us and seeks to kill us in a spiritual sense, not just some days, but everyday for their sake. And we do this so that they may learn how to let that flesh die.
Those who are among the misled who believe that all was finished on the cross and that there is nothing left for us to do, those ones are numbered among the ones we must die for, as they resist and attack and say every sort of vile thing against us while they bask in their ignorance, achieving a false sense of well-being and not knowing what they need to do to really achieve and keep it.
No man can become a soldier in a more difficult or more important battle than this spiritual battle. It is the true meaning of giving ones life for the sake of the sheep. And that battle can be seen in Jesus who died for us while we were yet sinners. Just as that battle can be seen in the lives of the Apostles and of Paul.
These ones who are shallow of understanding read verses like Philippians 1:6 and fail to see that Paul is speaking about the work God is doing through his efforts with them. “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:..”
What allows this to a great degree is that they have shepherds with little understanding of the Greek, else they would know the word, “you” is the plural 2nd person pronoun, “humin”, and means God is working in the congregation among the individuals rather than this separatist view which sees it as saying God is working in them individually.
By correct Greek grammar God is working through Paul in the same “you” he identified just beforehand:
Philippians 1:1 “Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ,
to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:
2 Grace be unto
you (that group composed of: “all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons”) and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 I thank my God upon every remembrance of
you (that group composed of: “all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons”),
4 Always in every prayer of mine for
you (that group composed of: “all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons”) all making request with joy,
5 For
your (that group composed of: “all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons”) fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now;
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work
in you (that group composed of: “all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons”) will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:..”
I will ease off right there for a time so as to allow you to ponder that if your are willing.
What we do not see can and does make what we see very different.
This very much applies to the OP but it may take a bit for some to appreciate that.