Christians are not going to be judged by the ten commandments.

[MoreCoffee]

Some teach that come judgement day christians will stand before the ten commandments and be required to answer for every transgression. These teachers even have icons depicting the last judgement with huge tablets of stone and the numerals of the ten commandments prominently displayed on the tablets.

That teaching is not true.

 

[BobRyan]

And now for some actual Bible.

1John 3:4 says that the law of God defines sin.

Romans 2:6-16 describes exactly how the future judgment progresses when it comes to the subject of sin.

Romans 6 - points out that the one who obeys sin - goes to the bad place.

2Cor 5:10 says that the saints are judged "according to the deeds done in the Body whether they be good or evil".

Ezek 18 says that the one who lives in sin - does not get eternal life.

Dan 7:22 says that in the future judgment of Dan 7:9-10 the "judgment is passed in favor of the saints".

Rev 14:12 says the saints are known as those who "Keep the Commandments of God".

1John 5:1-4 we are told that we show our Love to God when we "Love God and keep His Commandments"

Paul lists a lot of commandment breakers in 1Cor 6 saying "do not be deceived" and that such do not inherit eternal life.

Paul says in 1Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God".

More for those who enjoy reading the Bible.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[mmksparbud]

Just for those interested in what the bible has to say on the subject:

(Mat 5:19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

(Mat 15:9) But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

(Mat 19:17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

(Mat 22:40) On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

(Mar 7:7) Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

(Mar 10:19) Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

(Mar 12:29) And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

(Luk 1:6) And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

(Luk 18:20) Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

(Joh 14:15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.

(Joh 14:21) He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

(Joh 15:10) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

(Act 1:2) Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

(1Co 7:19) Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

(1Co 14:37) If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

(Eph 2:15) Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

(Col 2:22) Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

(Col 4:10) Aristarchus my fellowprisoner saluteth you, and Marcus, sister's son to Barnabas, (touching whom ye received commandments: if he come unto you, receive him

(1Th 4:2) For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

(Tit 1:14) Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

(1Jn 2:3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

(1Jn 2:4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

(1Jn 3:22) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

(1Jn 3:24) And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

(1Jn 5:2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

(1Jn 5:3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

(2Jn 1:6) And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

(Rev 12:17) And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

(Rev 14:12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

(Rev 22:14) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[NannaNae]

oops sda... thread..sorrry!

 

[MoreCoffee]

oops sda... thread..sorrry!

No! This is an ordinary christian thread. No special seventhness about it

 

[BobRyan]

oops sda... thread..sorrry!

Taken at face value - a thread discussing the Ten Commandments can not be limited to just SDAs - and I have proof.


===================== from this link
#1

Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources - and 6 of the 7 are actually correct according to the Bible!.


Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

================================

 

[MoreCoffee]

Taken at face value - a thread discussing the Ten Commandments can not be limited to just SDAs - and I have proof.
...

Uh huh ...

But this ten commandment judgement scene is from SDA sources is it not?

 

[BobRyan]

of that list of 7 - that even pro-sunday keepers affirm - we (and likely all the other Sabbath keeping Christians here) agree with these 6.

1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.

Which is not opposed to what you have posted in that last post, even though they may not have that view of the judgment.

However these texts affirm the Law of God as the standard in Judgment - as found in post #3
and http://www.christianforums.com/t7856727/#post66786458#[URL="http://www.christianforums.com/t7856727/#post66786396"]2 [/URL]

 

[listed]

Some people refuse to read and believe the Scripture.

 

[BobRyan]

yes I noticed that -- it is a big problem these days.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Some people refuse to read and believe the Scripture.

yes I noticed that -- it is a big problem these days.

Then one wonders why your posts, BobRyan, reject the teaching of Christ in the story of the rich man and Lazarus and the teaching of the apostles in the new testament letters regarding the end of the Law and the importance of grace and the Spirit apart from works of the Law. I know that you've written a few times that you do not believe or teach that a man or woman is justified by works and for that I am thankful. But the idea that Christians will be judged by the Law is an obvious contradiction to that teaching so why do you argue so furiously against the proposition that is in the first post of this thread? Namely; "Some teach that come judgement day christians will stand before the ten commandments and be required to answer for every transgression. These teaches even have icons depicting the last judgement with huge tablets of stone and the numerals of the ten commandments prominently displayed on the tablets. This teaching is not true"

The image I included in that post is worth more than a thousand words. It gives every evidence that somebody, the artist and perhaps his or her teachers, believes that the Law is the rule by which individuals are judged.

 

[BobRyan]

Then one wonders why your posts, BobRyan, reject the teaching of Christ in the story of the rich man and Lazarus

Far from it -- for those that read the actual Bible in the case of Luke 16 and see that Christ said the parable of the rich man and Lazarus teaches us that "if they do not listen to Moses NEITHER will they listen though one rise from the dead".

In Mark 7:6=13 Christ uses the TEN Commandments saying "Moses said" and also calling it the "Word of God" -- to slam supposedly sacred church tradition.

What is more JAMES says that we ARE to be "judged by the Law of Liberty" --

And The RCC says of JAMES's law - that it is The TEN Commandments.

Because my point in these quotes below is that they agree with the 7 points in the OP. I can quote those 7 points for those unfamiliar with them.



[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini is a papal encyclical on the subject of Sunday and how it is regarded by tradition to be a holy day rooted in the 10 commandments as a continuation of the 4th commandment (numbered 3 by Roman Catholics).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini, John Paul II, 5 July 1998 - Apostolic Letter [/FONT]

========================== Dies Domini begin
[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini pt 11 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"the rest of the Sabbath..discloses something of the nuptial shape of the relationship which God wants to establish with the creature made in his image, by calling that creature to enter a pact of love".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] Dies Domini pt 13 -[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini pt 11 "if the first page of the book of Genesis presents God's work as an example for man, the same is true of God's rest - on the seventh day God finished his work which he had done therefore God blessed the seventh day and made it holy...it is a gaze which God casts upon all things, but in a special way upon man, the crown
of creation. It is a gaze which already discloses something of the nuptial shape of the relationship God wants to establish with the creature made in his own image, by calling that creature to enter a pact of love."[/FONT]

=============================== Dies Domini ... end quote

The quote I gave from Dies Domini is fully consistent with the examples I gave from the Catholic Catechism - at least that is what we appear to have in the details of those quotes.

You provide no one example of Dies Domini or the CCC objecting to the 7 points listed in the OP. No not one.

I offer a perfect example to test the points -- in quotes from your own CCC. All you have done in the above post is ask if I have read - D. D. in its entirety.???

I say again that 6 of the 7 points appear here.

[FONT=&quot]2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

. I know that you've written a few times that you do not believe or teach that a man or woman is justified by works and for that I am thankful. But the idea that Christians will be judged by the Law is an obvious contradiction to that teaching

Not correct as James 2 reminds us.

James 2
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.


Even the RCC admits the Law of James 2 is the moral law of God - the TEN Commandments and to break one is to break them all.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[MoreCoffee]

Then one wonders why your posts, BobRyan, reject the teaching of Christ in the story of the rich man and Lazarus and the teaching of the apostles in the new testament letters regarding the end of the Law and the importance of grace and the Spirit apart from works of the Law. I know that you've written a few times that you do not believe or teach that a man or woman is justified by works and for that I am thankful. But the idea that Christians will be judged by the Law is an obvious contradiction to that teaching so why do you argue so furiously against the proposition that is in the first post of this thread? Namely; "Some teach that come judgement day christians will stand before the ten commandments and be required to answer for every transgression. These teaches even have icons depicting the last judgement with huge tablets of stone and the numerals of the ten commandments prominently displayed on the tablets. This teaching is not true"

The image I included in that post is worth more than a thousand words. It gives every evidence that somebody, the artist and perhaps his or her teachers, believes that the Law is the rule by which individuals are judged.

Far from it ...

Do you expect to experience something like the scene predicted in the image shown above?

 

[MoreCoffee]

How would you define sin?

II. The Definition of Sin

1849 Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience; it is failure in genuine love for God and neighbor caused by a perverse attachment to certain goods. It wounds the nature of man and injures human solidarity. It has been defined as "an utterance, a deed, or a desire contrary to the eternal law."121

1850 Sin is an offense against God: "Against you, you alone, have I sinned, and done that which is evil in your sight."122 Sin sets itself against God's love for us and turns our hearts away from it. Like the first sin, it is disobedience, a revolt against God through the will to become "like gods,"123 knowing and determining good and evil. Sin is thus "love of oneself even to contempt of God."124 In this proud self-exaltation, sin is diametrically opposed to the obedience of Jesus, which achieves our salvation.125

1851 It is precisely in the Passion, when the mercy of Christ is about to vanquish it, that sin most clearly manifests its violence and its many forms: unbelief, murderous hatred, shunning and mockery by the leaders and the people, Pilate's cowardice and the cruelty of the soldiers, Judas' betrayal - so bitter to Jesus, Peter's denial and the disciples' flight. However, at the very hour of darkness, the hour of the prince of this world,126 The sacrifice of Christ secretly becomes the source from which the forgiveness of our sins will pour forth inexhaustibly.

121 St. Augustine, Contra Faustum 22: PL 42, 418; St. Thomas Aquinas, STh I-II, 71, 6.
122 ⇒ Ps 51:4.
123 ⇒ Gen 3:5.
124 St. Augustine, De civ. Dei 14, 28: PL 41, 436.
125 Cf. ⇒ Phil 2:6-9.
126 Cf. ⇒ Jn 14:30.​

 

[BobRyan]

In the "actual Bible" the definition of sin -- 1 John 3:4 "sin is transgression of the Law" KJV

 

[BobRyan]

Do you expect to experience something like the scene predicted in the image shown above?

Do you agree with James 2??

Not correct as James 2 reminds us.

James 2
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.


Even the RCC admits the Law of James 2 is the moral law of God - the TEN Commandments and to break one is to break them all.

How about 1Cor 6 -

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

How about Romans 6
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

2 Cor 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

 

[MoreCoffee]

... sin is transgression of the Law KJV

The KJV got that wrong. Far more accurate is "sin is lawlessness"

 

[BobRyan]

In the "actual Bible" the definition of sin -- 1 John 3:4 "sin is transgression of the Law" KJV

According to Paul - John is correct to say 1 John 3:4 "sin is transgression of the Law" KJV

Rom 7:7 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Romans 4:15 15 for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.

Romans 3
31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Romans 2:13
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

Catholic NewAdvent
"Here we have to deal with moral evil only. This may be defined as a privation of conformity to right reason and to the law of God. Since the morality of a human act consists in its agreement or non-agreement with right reason and the eternal law, an act is good or evil in the moral order according as it involves this agreement or non-agreement. When the intelligent creature, knowing God and His law, deliberately refuses to obey, moral evil results. "
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm

 

[MoreCoffee]

In the "actual Bible" ...

Never heard of a translation called "actual bible", is it a modified KJV for use in devotions?