Christians are not commanded to observe the seventh day.

[ChristianMatchmaking]

Well Bob seemed far more persuasive, but I think "we" may still be missing something I've already mentioned.

Before that, however, I will say that the "Law" most certainly was "against" us. This is how the Law was unequivocally against us:

"The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law" 1 Cor 15:56

Christ fulfilled the Law on our behalf and we are no longer under Law, yes? We are also "in" Christ, yes?

Look at Romans 8:

"2 For the law of the Spirit of life [a]in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, [b]weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of [c]sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (NAS)

Especially this portion:

"so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit"

What is the "requirement of the Law" referred to there? The requirement of condemnation and death for sin? Or the requirement of how we live our lives in real righteousness?

I'm inclined to think the latter.

Clearly we are supposed to live our lives after conversion in obedience to the moral laws indicated in the Ten Commandments, yes? But not by the flesh, as if under Law itself, but rather as those seeking to live out the "requirements" (of true righteousness) of the law in the power of the Spirit.

Regarding the Sabbath day of the week, however, being a "shadow" of Christ, it appears that the true requirement of the Law being fulfilled in us consists of something spiritual, not physical; of being in Christ. The Sabbath symbolized Christ, and He is the true Sabbath rest for the people of God, is He not? See Hebrews 4. It seems to me that what the Bible is teaching is that if one truly is in Christ, then one is living continually in fulfillment of the "requirement" and true ultimate meaning of any previous commandment about the Sabbath. Does this not make sense spiritually? I realize those committed to "Sabbatarianism" may automatically say no, but I'm more interested in hearing from someone with an open mind about such an idea.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Here's a few excerpts from footnotes of Romans:

4 Now with our sins forgiven and having the spirit of Yahshua living in the true believer, they can keep the righteous demand of the Torah just as Yahshua did.
5 Ro 6:23, Ezek 18:4
6 Whoever rejects the Torah cannot have the
spirit of YHWH.

 

[Bob S]

Although keeping, or observing any day is not yet a requirement for salvation, the forth commandment has never been done away with, neither have any of the TEN. Those who will quote Colossians 2:14-17 to prove that A law was "nailed to the cross" and try to tie the TEN commandments with the "law" that was nailed to the cross show a great lack of study and an even greater adherence to tradition over God's word. The "law" that was nailed to the cross was the ceremonial laws that pointed to Jesus. Did the TEN commandments point to Jesus, or were they in fact instituted during creation where there were no jews, for those who think the seventh day sabbath is for the jews only. The law that was actually "nailed to the cross" was the law that Moses wrote in a book according to deuteronomy 31. The only "law" or part of the "law" that was nailed to the cross was the part that Paul describes as Colossians:2:14: "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" Has the TEN commandments ever been referred to as against us???? OR contrary to us???? Never! If you read about the book that Moses wrote in deuteronomy it contains the blessings and the curses against the children of Israel. Paul writes of both laws in Romans:7:12: "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." Paul wrote that the "law" is holy, and the TEN commandments are and always have been considered holy just and good. The TEN commandments are the law of love. Those who want to say we have to do nothing but mutter a few words have no idea about what any law is even for. If we love, according to the supposed "new" commandment Jesus gave us would it be possible to break any of the TEN commandments? Here is what Jesus was quoting from when He stated that we are to love God with all our heart and our neighbors as ourselves, found in Deuteronomy:6:5: "And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." Leviticus:19:18: "Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD." So was the "new" commandment Jesus gave to love actually "new"? Or was it a reminder. The people forgot how to love, and that is one of the reasons Jesus had to come. The sermon on the mount was all about principles that must be practiced if we truly agape love! To say we love and do nothing is hypocrisy.

BTW very soon we will have to make a choice about which day to worship on. It has happened in the past over and over, and history does repeat itself. There already was a national SUNday law here in USA in 1888. We can all thank an SDA attorney AT Jones for the privilege of being born, because if he did not bravely stand against the senate sub committee the SUNday law would have been passed and we would not have been born. You can read the whole transcript here.

http://temcat.com/L-1-adv-pioneer-lib/ATJONES/NationalSundayLaw-Jones.pdf

I am pretty sure you will not reply because the scripture previously presented to you proves you and the church you represent as being completely wrong. I notice you didn't address the fact that Paul wrote that the weekly Sabbath given only to the now defunct Israel is now a shadow and Jesus is our reality. Lets also look at verses that explain that the 10 commandments were temporary laws and they too are not the guide for Christians.

7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! 2Cor3:7-11

The proof is in the written word. Don't be fooled by the agenda that churches use that seem on the surface to be kosher.

masmpg would like for us to believe that SDAs do not believe the Sabbath is salvational, but look at what their revered prophet wrote: It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." {6T 356.4}


But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}


No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14}

All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light.{HS 234.3}

 

[Bob S]

Well Bob seemed far more persuasive, but I think "we" may still be missing something I've already mentioned.

I read your post and certainly Jesus is our rest and we experience His rest 7 days a week. 9 of the 10 commandments are concerning morality. The 4th commandment concerns the ritual law of Sabbath observance. The 9 commands are the tip of the iceberg concerning all morality. The 9 do not even mention the greatest command of all and that is our love for each other. How Christians can tell us the 10 represent God's character in unbelievably shallow and not thought out.

Before that, however, I will say that the "Law" most certainly was "against" us. This is how the Law was unequivocally against us:

"The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law" 1 Cor 15:56

Christ fulfilled the Law on our behalf and we are no longer under Law, yes? We are also "in" Christ, yes?

Amen!

Look at Romans 8:

"2 For the law of the Spirit of life [a]in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, [b]weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of [c]sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (NAS)

Especially this portion:

"so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit"

What is the "requirement of the Law" referred to there? The requirement of condemnation and death for sin? Or the requirement of how we live our lives in real righteousness?

I'm inclined to think the latter.

You are on the right path friend.

Clearly we are supposed to live our lives after conversion in obedience to the moral laws indicated in the Ten Commandments, yes? But not by the flesh, as if under Law itself, but rather as those seeking to live out the "requirements" (of true righteousness) of the law in the power of the Spirit.

Regarding the Sabbath day of the week, however, being a "shadow" of Christ, it appears that the true requirement of the Law being fulfilled in us consists of something spiritual, not physical; of being in Christ. The Sabbath symbolized Christ, and He is the true Sabbath rest for the people of God, is He not? See Hebrews 4. It seems to me that what the Bible is teaching is that if one truly is in Christ, then one is living continually in fulfillment of the "requirement" and true ultimate meaning of any previous commandment about the Sabbath. Does this not make sense spiritually? I realize those committed to "Sabbatarianism" may automatically say no, but I'm more interested in hearing from someone with an open mind about such an idea.

I can only tell you that for almost 40 years I tried to be observant to the 10 commandments and the ritual 4th commandment condemned me every week. I was never able to "keep" it. I finally quit teying and became discouraged with what I thought was truth. It was not until I threw away all the books and literature the church supplied and opened the Holy Writ that I became aware of the covenants God has given to people since Adam. As I studied deeply the Sabbath issue and other doctrines of the SDAs I found real cracks in their doctrines. The Observance of the Sabbath is the most blatant. I realized that no other nation except Israel has ever been commissioned to observe any day. Jesus has never ever mentioned that Gentiles are to observe a day. The Apostles never mentioned a certain day to worship on. There are no instructions for gentiles to learn how to observe the Sabbath. The Bible is mute on those subjects, but it is not mute on telling us we are not under Torah law and the 10 commandments were temporary and were replaced by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as Christians guide.

I pray this helps you in making a very important decision.

 

[ChristianMatchmaking]

Additionally, is it not also pertinent to this question how conspicuously absent any such instruction is in the council at Jerusalem in Acts 15?

Getting back to my "theory" regarding "requirement of the Law," what that is, and what that means in context:

1. The "requirement" that sin be paid for with death.

2. The "requirement" of having true righteousness.

3. Both.

#2 had always seemed to be the answer in context to me, but the "both" option is still consistent with what I'm talking about and may be more accurate and true as well re that verse.

So then, in light of #2, Bob has also well pointed out that 9 out of the 10 commandments deal with what I think may safely be understood to be pure morality or intrinsic morality may be a proper term for it.

So then what is the "requirement" of the Law with regard to each of those 9 of the 10 commandments? The answer is exactly what they say, along with any true amplified explanation of what they mean given or derived from Scripture. When you get to the Sabbath commandment, what is the real "requirement" in terms of true righteousness, in light of the Sabbath being a shadow of which Christ is the fulfillment? Is not the requirement that we go from being outside of Christ spiritually to being in Christ? And when God places someone in Christ in that way, he or she then has new ability and power for the true requirement of true righteousness to begin to take place in one's life and walk before God.

I hope I'm not being too redundant here. Any suggestion about not following a certain teaching about observance of the Sabbath day precluding salvation, however, if that is what should be inferred from some of the other posting here, would be extreme error, would it not?

 

[masmpg]

Well Bob seemed far more persuasive, but I think "we" may still be missing something I've already mentioned.

Before that, however, I will say that the "Law" most certainly was "against" us. This is how the Law was unequivocally against us:

"The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law" 1 Cor 15:56

Christ fulfilled the Law on our behalf and we are no longer under Law, yes? We are also "in" Christ, yes?

Look at Romans 8:

"2 For the law of the Spirit of life [a]in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, [b]weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of [c]sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (NAS)

Especially this portion:

"so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit"

What is the "requirement of the Law" referred to there? The requirement of condemnation and death for sin? Or the requirement of how we live our lives in real righteousness?

I'm inclined to think the latter.

Clearly we are supposed to live our lives after conversion in obedience to the moral laws indicated in the Ten Commandments, yes? But not by the flesh, as if under Law itself, but rather as those seeking to live out the "requirements" (of true righteousness) of the law in the power of the Spirit.

Regarding the Sabbath day of the week, however, being a "shadow" of Christ, it appears that the true requirement of the Law being fulfilled in us consists of something spiritual, not physical; of being in Christ. The Sabbath symbolized Christ, and He is the true Sabbath rest for the people of God, is He not? See Hebrews 4. It seems to me that what the Bible is teaching is that if one truly is in Christ, then one is living continually in fulfillment of the "requirement" and true ultimate meaning of any previous commandment about the Sabbath. Does this not make sense spiritually? I realize those committed to "Sabbatarianism" may automatically say no, but I'm more interested in hearing from someone with an open mind about such an idea.

The law does one thing PERIOD! It points out sin. The TEN commandments were given to man as a blessing so we would know when we are sinning so we could confess that sin and repent of it.

You quoted: "2 For the law of the Spirit of life [a]in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, [b]weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of [c]sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (NAS) The big issue most of Christandom are mistaking is that we can be carnal Christians when we cannot. Because the end of this text you quoted is the whole Christian walk of sanctification. "who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit" It is impossible to walk after the flesh and the Spirit too! IF we are sinning we are in the flesh! This is elementary bible 101! The law brings us to Christ, and we stay in Christ ONLY if we walk in the Spirit NOT in the flash. Read the beginning of Romans 8, well I will quote it here Romans:8:3-8: "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." Anyone who says thatthey can walk in the Spirit and the flesh atthe same time they are lying. I will take this further, in the next verse we are told Romans:8:9: "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Whoever can interpret this to mean that we are in the spirit because we mutter a few words and DO nothing, well the bible does not teach that. ONLY those who OBEY God will receive the Holy Spirit reed it here Acts:5:32: "And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." Obedience includes the TEN commandments, otherwise what are we told to obey? The law spoken of in Colossians 2 has nothing to do with the TEN commandments. Jesus death only ended the sacrificial services and the ceremonial feast days that pointed to Him. The BOOK OF THE LAW spoken of in Galatians is what Moses wrote and explains in Deuteronomy 31. The problem with this teaching is preconceived opinions. When I use to believe the cheap grace gospel I had a hard time unlearning what my Christian "mentors" taught me. Do yourself a favor and study obey, obedience, righteousness, righteous, justification, justified, sanctification, sanctified, holiness, blameless. You must study these words in the KJV because all the modern translations are deleting them as much as possible. If you still believe that you can be any of these, which we must be in order to do the Lords work 2Timothy:2:21: "If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work, and still sin, or teach that obedience is not necessary for salvation...

I ask everyone this, IF YOU LOVE GOD WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO BREAK ONE OF THE FIRST FOR COMMANDMENTS???? IF YOU LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO BREAK ONE OF THE LAST SIX COMMANDMENTS??? That is all the law is for! Showing us that we are NOT loving when we break any of the TEN commandments.

You need to understand who Paul wrote to. He wrote about the first step in our Christian experience justification. He wrote to heathens and idol worshipers who thought that salvation came from ritual ceremonies and observances. He wrote the most simple form of justification, saying that we are not JUSTIFIED by the law to remove any BOASTING. Just because we are not JUSTIFIED by the law what happens to the law? When we are justified we have taken the first BABY step on our walk of SANCTIFICATION. Which Paul explains in Romans 8:1 in the KJV because it is not in the modern translations Romans:8:1: "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." This is the beginning, NOT the end, NOT a stopping point where we have arrived at being a Christian. The beginning of our WALK as Paul calls it.

 

[Bob S]

The law does one thing PERIOD! It points out sin. The TEN commandments were given to man as a blessing so we would know when we are sinning so we could confess that sin and repent of it.

The 10 commandments don't even point out that we are to love our fellow man. They are a very incomplete set of rules on how to deal with others. For instance the 10 says nothing about arrogance, hate, peace, kindness, long suffering, humbleness, gentleness, and dozens of adjectives that tell us how to and how not to treat our fellow man.

If I were under the 10 commandments I could do all those things out of fear or out of duty. the commands about loving God and our fellow man are found in the book of the law, Lev and Deut..

 

[ChristianMatchmaking]

masmpg, you seem to have missed that I am most definitely talking about sanctification.

The Lord is the one who made real sanctification possible, "so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

And one certainly cannot make a dogmatic and apparently baseless and untenable leap of claiming the "Law" did not include the ten commandments.

And what is the requirement of the Law when it comes to the ten commandments?

In the case of adultery, that we do not commit adultery.

In the case of stealing, that we do not steal.

In the case or murder, that we do not murder.

Ultimately of course, that we love God and our fellow human being.

And so on...

Until you get to the command about seventh day Sabbath observance. The Sabbath was given as a shadow of Christ until Christ came to fulfill the meaning of the Sabbath and usher in the "rest" it represented.

And what is the requirement of the Law now with regard to the command about the Sabbath? Sabbath day observance? No. The requirement is that you enter into God's rest, into His Son the Christ, via grace, salvation and repentance given by God Himself. If you have entered into the true and ultimate Sabbath rest of God, and are now "in Christ," then the righteous requirement of the Law the commandment had always signified has been fulfilled for you. It is no longer about external physical observance of a day in order to point to the future coming of Christ, but its meaning and ultimate requirement is now completed and fulfilled.

The other elements of a sanctified life, which we learn by the Word of Truth, and some of which Bob so well pointed out, are now also possible in a way that was never possible before for people who were merely flesh under Law, because of the indwelling presence of Christ by the Spirit, and the regenerate life certainly has nothing to do with "easy believism," remaining "carnal," or only repeating a few words.

 

[klutedavid]

Hello Bob.

Noticed you said the following.

Adam and Eve lived before the fall - and kept Sabbath as their first day of rest.

The scripture does not say that Adam and Eve kept the Sabbath day. Why do you make this claim without any evidence?

The only people that received the legislation of Sabbath observance from God, were the Jews. No where in the scripture are Gentiles told by God, to observe the Sabbath day.

Ex 20:8-11 says to rest.

That is an instruction given to the nation of Israel. The text is very clear on this point. Israel had the letter of the law, i.e, the written law. The Gentiles were never given this written law.

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

Noticed you said the following.

The scripture does not say that Adam and Eve kept the Sabbath day. Why do you make this claim without any evidence?

God says in Ex 20:11 that the Genesis 2:1-4 facts "alone" establish the binding obligation of the Bible Sabbath.

Christ himself affirms this speaking of the making of mankind and the making of the Sabbath in Genesiis 1-2:3 - "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND - and not MANKIND made for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27 - speaking explicitly of the making of BOTH - as we see in Genesis 1-2:3.

As even your own pro-sunday Scholars will admit to this obvious Bible detail.

 

[BobRyan]

To see how even their own pro-sunday scholars admit to these bible basics about the OT Bible Sabbath applicable to all mankind - with the 'moral law of God" starting in Eden - we have many examples - including the "Baptist Confession of Faith" AND the "Westminster Confession of Faith". --

And we also have this

===================================


- D.L. Moody notices that some are inexplicably opposed to God's Bible Sabbath Commandment -

http://www.fbinstitute.com/moody/The_TenCommandments_Text.html

BY THE
DWIGHT L. MOODY
The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17
.
The Fourth Commandment


Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes;

------------------------------------------

 

[masmpg]

masmpg, you seem to have missed that I am most definitely talking about sanctification.

The Lord is the one who made real sanctification possible, "so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

And one certainly cannot make a dogmatic and apparently baseless and untenable leap of claiming the "Law" did not include the ten commandments.

And what is the requirement of the Law when it comes to the ten commandments?

In the case of adultery, that we do not commit adultery.

In the case of stealing, that we do not steal.

In the case or murder, that we do not murder.

Ultimately of course, that we love God and our fellow human being.

And so on...

Until you get to the command about seventh day Sabbath observance. The Sabbath was given as a shadow of Christ until Christ came to fulfill the meaning of the Sabbath and usher in the "rest" it represented.

And what is the requirement of the Law now with regard to the command about the Sabbath? Sabbath day observance? No. The requirement is that you enter into God's rest, into His Son the Christ, via grace, salvation and repentance given by God Himself. If you have entered into the true and ultimate Sabbath rest of God, and are now "in Christ," then the righteous requirement of the Law the commandment had always signified has been fulfilled for you. It is no longer about external physical observance of a day in order to point to the future coming of Christ, but its meaning and ultimate requirement is now completed and fulfilled.

The other elements of a sanctified life, which we learn by the Word of Truth, and some of which Bob so well pointed out, are now also possible in a way that was never possible before for people who were merely flesh under Law, because of the indwelling presence of Christ by the Spirit, and the regenerate life certainly has nothing to do with "easy believism," remaining "carnal," or only repeating a few words.

You might be referencing sanctification in your post but you are defining justification. Paul wrote mainly about justification, but I already wrote all this and it is obvious that you did not read my comment, because you are stating things that my comment biblically proved.

The law that Paul wrote about in Galatians 3:10 and Colossians 2:14-17 did not include the TEN commandments, read my comment. Study God's holy word the KJV bible without any bias and you will come to the same conclusion as I have, because the Holy Spirit will guide all who follow Him into the same truth.

The forth commandment never was referred to as a shadow, but the feast days were all considered sabbath dayS just as Paul wrote it in Colossians 2:16, please read Leviticus 23. Notice the sabbath days are plural, or are you using a counterfeit translation too?

Please show me where Jesus magically became the sabbath. We are to find rest in Him, but nowhere is Jesus referred to as our sabbath rest.

So what you are telling me is that you believe that it is possible to be a carnal Christian??? Not according to God's holy word the KJV bible. You can follow Bob all you want to but there are far too many truths left out of the cheap grace teaching that are deadly errors. You seem to have your mind made up, so why did you even ask this question in the first place?

 

[masmpg]

First off I would like to say that I receive zero benefit by writing the things the Holy Spirit has revealed to me and impressed me to write. The only thing I promote is that people study God's word and remove all preconceived opinions in the process, because no opinions will save anybody. If it is not "thus saith the Lord" we need to be very leary of it, especially if it has to do with salvation.

It was God through His Son Jesus that instituted HIS rest day not the SDA denomination, nor the jews. He instituted His rest day in eden where there were NO jews, nor SDAs. It was God through His dear Son Jesus that blessed the seventh day and made it holy, not me, not any denomination. To make fun of something God blessed and hallowed is very questionable. Could we make fun of something God blessed while we are saying "I love God with all my heart"? The sabbath is a serious matter as is everything that proceeds from God's holy word the KJV bible. Nowhere in the word of God are we told that the sabbath has gone anywhere. It takes much study to realize this. To put all God's laws into Colossians 2:14-17 shows a great lack of study and a great adherence to denominational tradition. Those who say that Jesus is our rest and use Hebrews 4 to prove it must study Hebrews four with much prayer. The book of Hebrews is the most complex book in the whole bible, for the simple reason that it was written to the Hebrews to get them to realize that Jesus was the final sacrifice. The Hebrews, or jews of our day have never accepted Jesus as their Lord and Saviour corporately, and never will. I would like to share one verse in Hebrews 4 that proves that the seventh day sabbath is still binding today as it was when God blessed the seventh day in eden. Hebrews:4:9: "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God." This "rest" is derived from the greek sabbatismos which comes from sabbaton which is the seventh day sabbath rest. This is the proof that the seventh day is still a rest day for God's people. Many will argue that the book of hebrews is for the jews only but the other references to the word rest applies to the heavenly Canaan we are to look forward to, not Jesus, which the Hebrews did not enter into because of unbelief, which is what most of Christianity is falling after the same example of.

I only try to encourage people to study these things out because even though the sabbath is not a test of Christianity to make fun of it, or to put down any denomination just because of it, and accuse them of things, well you decide. Can we be loving God and our neighbor as ourselves and do these things?

 

[klutedavid]

God says in Ex 20:11 that the Genesis 2:1-4 facts "alone" establish the binding obligation of the Bible Sabbath.

Christ himself affirms this speaking of the making of mankind and the making of the Sabbath in Genesiis 1-2:3 - "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND - and not MANKIND made for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27 - speaking explicitly of the making of BOTH - as we see in Genesis 1-2:3.

As even your own pro-sunday Scholars will admit to this obvious Bible detail.

Hello Bob.

The scripture does not say that Adam and Eve were under the law.

Why do you make this claim without any evidence?

God says in Ex 20:11 that the Genesis 2:1-4 facts "alone" establish the binding obligation of the Bible Sabbath.

Here is the verse you quoted as evidence, that Adam and Eve were under the law.

Exodus 20
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

This verse does not say that Adam and Eve were under the law.

This is the critical point, Adam and Eve need to be firstly under the law, in order to be bound by the sabbath law.

That's what the text (Exodus 20:11) represents, the law given to the nation of Israel.

Paul says that the law came at a later date, the law did not exist before this time.

Galatians 3:17
What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later.

It is impossible that Adam and Eve were under the law, because Paul states, the law came later. The only group of people that the Bible says were under the law, were the Jews. The Jews voluntarily accepted the law at Mt Sinai.

Paul in his letter to the Galatians, firmly tells the Galatians that they are not under the sabbath law.

Galatians 5
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Not under the law means, not under the sabbath law.

To place Adam and Eve under the law, you need the scripture that states, that God placed Adam and Eve under the law.

Your inference has been refuted.

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

Noticed you said the following.

The scripture does not say that Adam and Eve kept the Sabbath day. Why do you make this claim without any evidence?

God says in Ex 20:11 that the Genesis 2:1-4 facts "alone" establish the binding obligation of the Bible Sabbath.

Christ himself affirms this speaking of the making of mankind and the making of the Sabbath in Genesiis 1-2:3 - "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND - and not MANKIND made for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27 - speaking explicitly of the making of BOTH - as we see in Genesis 1-2:3.

As even your own pro-sunday Scholars will admit to this obvious Bible detail.

Hello Bob.

The scripture does not say that Adam and Eve were under the law.

As even your own pro-Sunday Scholars will admit - there is no support at all for the wild speculation and false doctrine that Adam and Eve were fine with taking God's name in vain and it would not be sin for them.

In fact let's do look at your own pro-Sunday scholars on such points as the LAW of God for Adam and Eve.

==========================
section 19 of the Westminster Confession of Faith

Westminster Confession of Faith Section 19

"Westminster Confession of Faith"

Chapter XIX
Of the Law of God​

I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which He bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables: the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.
III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, His graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;l and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties. All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament

IV. To them also, as a body politic, He gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.
VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned; yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives; so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin, together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of His obedience It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin: and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof: although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works. So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace

VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it; the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.
​

 

[ChristianMatchmaking]

Don't have time to try to address everything new above; however, since when did Adam and Eve ever have to work prior to the Fall and prior to the blessing and making of the seventh day Sabbath? Prior to the Fall, there is no indication they had to work and every indication they did not have to work at all and that there was nothing for them to "rest" from. Is that not so? And yet the Sabbath was made anyway.

And more importantly, does that not invalidate the large doctrinal leap some want to make with Exodus 28:11 merely because God references the Genesis reality there?

 

[BobRyan]

Don't have time to try to address everything new above; however, since when did Adam and Eve ever have to work prior to the Fall and prior to the blessing and making of the seventh day Sabbath? Prior to the Fall, there is no indication they had to work and every indication they did not have to work at all and that there was nothing for them to "rest" from. Is that not so? And yet the Sabbath was made anyway.

And more importantly, does that not invalidate the large doctrinal leap some want to make with Exodus 28:11 merely because God references the Genesis reality there?

You have imagined that Adam and Eve had no work -- no occupation ... nothing but goofing off all day. What is your proof? "you quoting you"???

And that you say is supposed to negate the Word of God in Ex 20:11 and Genesis 2:1-3?? Please be serious.

God says in Ex 20:11 that the Genesis 2:1-4 facts "alone" establish the binding obligation of the Bible Sabbath.

Christ himself affirms this speaking of the making of mankind and the making of the Sabbath in Genesiis 1-2:3 - "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND - and not MANKIND made for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27 - speaking explicitly of the making of BOTH - as we see in Genesis 1-2:3.

Genesis 2
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Exodus 20:8-11
8 - Remember the Sabbath day...
9 - SIX days you shall labor
10- the seventh day IS the Sabbath
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

That is legal code - and in legal code the reason for the Holy Bible Sabbath day - is given "FOR IN six days the Lord made... and rested the 7th day. THEREFORE the Lord BLESSEd the Sabbath AND Made it Holy"

 

[BobRyan]

Notice what Jesus said --- the "Commandment of God" -- the "Word of God" and "Moses said" -- in Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Certainly from their point of view they would never have accused themselves of diminishing the Ten Commandments in the least.

But what does Christ accuse them of doing?

1. Using their own traditions to nullify one of the Ten Commandments.
2. He calls the Ten Commandments "Moses says" -- and "the Word of God" and "the Commandment of God"
3. He argues that even though they do not claim to be setting aside one of the Commandments of God - they in fact are by observing the example he gives in the case of the 5th Commandment.
4. He argues that this is just one example of the many things they do with their traditions - in this way - nullifying the Word of God. Contradicting the Commandment of God - one of the TEN.
5. He states that it nullifies their worship.
6. Jesus is not defending their additions -- he is defending God's Commandments


And notice how Eph 6:2 uses that same Commandment - predicating it's affirmative on the basis of a still valid unit of TEN in which the command to honor Parents is the "FIRST commandment with a promise"!!

 

[masmpg]

Hello Bob.

The scripture does not say that Adam and Eve were under the law.

Why do you make this claim without any evidence?


Here is the verse you quoted as evidence, that Adam and Eve were under the law.

Exodus 20
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

This verse does not say that Adam and Eve were under the law.

This is the critical point, Adam and Eve need to be firstly under the law, in order to be bound by the sabbath law.

That's what the text (Exodus 20:11) represents, the law given to the nation of Israel.

Paul says that the law came at a later date, the law did not exist before this time.

Galatians 3:17
What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later.

It is impossible that Adam and Eve were under the law, because Paul states, the law came later. The only group of people that the Bible says were under the law, were the Jews. The Jews voluntarily accepted the law at Mt Sinai.

Paul in his letter to the Galatians, firmly tells the Galatians that they are not under the sabbath law.

Galatians 5
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Not under the law means, not under the sabbath law.

To place Adam and Eve under the law, you need the scripture that states, that God placed Adam and Eve under the law.

Your inference has been refuted.

Did you know that all who disobey God's law are "under the law"? Those who obey God's law are NOT "under the law".

 

[klutedavid]

Did you know that all who disobey God's law are "under the law"? Those who obey God's law are NOT "under the law".

Hello Masmpg.

The scripture says the Jews were under the law.