Christians and alcohol; hurting the spread of the gospel...

[Trogdor the Burninator]

I know when I asked my ex mother and father-in-law why they didn't drank and they said they didn't want to cause others to stumble and I was always confused about that. They never explained it.

I suspect that they meant one of the following scenarios:-

• A person has a problem with alcoholism and if they were to drink while that person is around it might tempt them into drinking too much
• A new/weak Christians who takes an (incorrect) view that "drinking alcohol = sin" might be lead away from the church or fellowship by seeing Christians openly drinking.

Which I tend to agree with - I'd never knowingly drink around someone who had either of those issues, yet I don't have a problem with drinking on occasion

 

[brinny]

Christians and alcohol; hurting the spread of the gospel...

Re: spreading the gospel (post #'s 2, 4, 9, 10, 12:

*crickets*

 

[Servant68]

Christians and alcohol; hurting the spread of the gospel...

Re: spreading the gospel (post #'s 2, 4, 9, 10, 12:

*crickets*

Or ignoring obvious agenda-driven trolling attempts that add nothing to the context of the OP...

 

[brinny]

Or ignoring obvious agenda-driven trolling attempts that add nothing to the context of the OP...

Legitimate questions that have everything to do with sharing the gospel, which have not been addressed.

If sharing the gospel is not what is of interest, perhaps you could change the title of the thread to reflect that.

I would suggest that you not accuse me of "trolling".

Thank you kindly.

 

[Servant68]

I call it as I see it. You asked the question and I explained why it wasn't relevant and why I wouldn't answer it. Yet you continued to keep asking it. Again and again. That's what I consider trolling, or at least, rude.

 

[brinny]

I call it as I see it. You asked the question and I explained why it wasn't relevant and why I wouldn't answer it. Yet you continued to keep asking it. Again and again. That's what I consider trolling, or at least, rude.

I have not been rude. I've simply asked a question regarding the bottom line of this thread. The title of the thread is what caught my eye.

If you did not intend to discuss what is right in the title of your thread, perhaps it is a mis-leading title.

It is not rude or "trolling" to ask specifics when it comes to sharing the gospel, nor is it offensive. There are so many in need of His gospel, His good news, in this ever-darkening world.

This comes to mind:

"For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels." ~Luke 9:26

 

[blackribbon]

I would hope the answer is to educate a person on the Bible.

John 2:1-11 where Jesus turns water into wine as his first miracle at a celebration of a wedding shows that drinking alcohol isn't wrong in of itself.

Then talk about that Jesus uses wine to symbolize his blood in the last supper to show further evidence, including that he says wine will be in heaven Math 26:17-30.

27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the[a] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”

Then discuss that we are not to do anything in excess as stated by Gal 5: 19-21 which included drinking to the point of being drunk. This is where sin is found...drunkenness.

Even church leaders are allowed to drink, just not to excess (or drunkenness) as stated by 1 Tim 3:8
In the same way, deacons are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. (This does not say abstinence)

If this was a Christian, I would also point out that focusing on small issues like this is a distraction from actually serving God. The Bible does not condemn drinking alcohol in any place. Only drunkenness.

But we also must not intentional cause a fellow Christian whom believes that alcohol or any other food or beverage is sinful to consume by intentionally causing strife or confusion of faith.

1 Cor 10:31-33
31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 32 Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God— 33 even as I try to please everyone in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.

So basically, judge a Christian on the fruits of his/her life, not a long list of Christian "do" & "don't" rules.

 

[ThisIsMe123]

I'm sure there are a dozen better forums to post this in, but I don't want a deep theological debate and someone with a theology degree judging me and pointing out how well I don't know the Bible...

I view this forum more as a singles Bible study so I thought I'd share an observation.

I was visiting with my parents at their home. My brother came over with his new fiance and my sister was up visiting, so the whole family was together, which is rare.

My sister and I are the only ones who attend church. My parents say grace occasionally, but haven't gone to church in 30 years. My brother sporadically attended, but he and his fiance refuse to go to church anymore.

It's a touchy subject, faith is. So my sister and I try to gingerly bring it up around the family to encourage discussion.

Last night, my sister and I were talking about the churches we now attend and my dad mentioned that the last church my parent's attended had it written in their statement that ANY alcohol consumption was a sin since Jesus only drank unfermented grape juice. It actually said that.

Then my brother started sharing about one of his friends Christian parents who are absolutely militant about alcohol and being so ridiculous that the mother refused to even touch a bottle of wine while helping clean up after a wedding reception.

My brother, his fiance, and my dad all used the examples of Christians being so ridiculously uptight and embattled over the subject of alcohol as proof that churches are filled with ridiculous people that can't even read the Bible and see that Jesus and his disciples drank fermented wine. They all drink, as do my sister and I.

I have rarely seen my dad ever drink to the point of drunkenness, maybe twice in the 30 years I've observed him drinking. He's got a better track record than I do. Never seen mom intoxicated. My brother is a Detective, so he tries to practice moderation as well.

My point is that none of them are in violation of Biblical standards in relation to alcohol, yet they perceive they are being judged due to a large, vocal number of teetotaling Christians who not only harshly judge others who drink, but actually include it in their church doctrinal statement.

Just my random Bible study subject of the day...

BTW, my Bible study had a celebratory meeting last week and we had both sparkling cider and actual champagne. It was about half and half for those who had champagne and those who didn't.

Funny you mention this. I once attended a Christian singles group that had a few people militant about dating someone that even drink a single bottle of beer.

This one woman I was talking to said she had a crush on one of the members of the church band, he was a singer. After Bible study, everyone went to dinner afterwards at a restaurant.

He had as single beer.

That was a dealbreaker for her.

I told her, "Listen, if you like everything about the guy, but you're going to let THAT be a deal breaker, then expect to be single for a LONG time."

Some people just have a thing for self-sabotage.

 

[Servant68]

I am not acceptable to many Christian women because I have the occasional drink and use tobacco.

Doesn't matter how nice and respectful and considerate I am.

 

[Antig]

Nothing wrong with Alcohol. It's how much one shoves down ones neck is the issue!

 

[blackribbon]

If someone come from a background were alcoholics have ruined enough events and hurt her, then often these women want complete teetotalers to guarantee that they are not committing to submitting to a man who could at sometime become inebriated. I can see why they might rather risk being alone.

To marry a spouse who drinks to point of being drunk is to marry two different people....

 

[ThisIsMe123]

If someone come from a background were alcoholics have ruined enough events and hurt her, then often these women want complete teetotalers to guarantee that they are not committing to submitting to a man who could at sometime become inebriated. I can see why they might rather risk being alone.

To marry a spouse who drinks to point of being drunk is to marry two different people....

Right, the woman I spoke of mentioned she had an ex that was abusive alcoholic, but to assume a guy like Servant68 who has one on occasion can be a dealbreaker that'll succumb to the dark side?

 

[blackribbon]

Right, the woman I spoke of mentioned she had an ex that was abusive alcoholic, but to assume a guy like Servant68 who has one on occasion can be a dealbreaker that'll succumb to the dark side?

They limit themselves but I believe that it is a better option than constantly living in fear that they will find themselves trapped in another marriage with an alcoholic. There are plenty of men out there who do not drink at all. My advice is to stop worrying about the ones whom you don't meet their personal ideas and just let them keep have them. Chances are your match isn't really among them.

Same as a guy who doesn't want a 'fat chick'. He is allowed. He might be missing out on some great women but he probably would never be a match for her either because this would always bother him.

 

[Servant68]

They limit themselves but I believe that it is a better option than constantly living in fear that they will find themselves trapped in another marriage with an alcoholic.

Same as a guy who doesn't want a 'fat chick'. He is allowed. He might be missing out on some great women but he probably would never be a match for her either because this would always bother him.

I don't think that's a valid analogy.

One is based on a psychological fear of alcohol and the other is a physical characteristic preference.

A man not being attracted to obese women is not the same as woman refusing to date a man who drinks because she is afraid he'll "turn into" an abusive alcoholic.

My ex actually married a recovered alcoholic. He could stumble and fall back into it any day. If looking at the two of us from the perspective of the ex-wife of an abusive alcoholic, which is the better choice? The man who doesn't currently drink yet has a history of alcohol abuse or the guy that currently drinks but does not abuse it or people and never has?

But I get the point that both are deal breakers for certain people in starting relationships. Some are rational and some aren't.

 

[blackribbon]

I don't think that's a valid analogy.

One is based on a psychological fear of alcohol and the other is a physical characteristic preference.

A man not being attracted to obese women is not the same as woman refusing to date a man who drinks because she is afraid he'll "turn into" an abusive alcoholic.

My ex actually married a recovered alcoholic. He could stumble and fall back into it any day. If looking at the two of us from the perspective of the ex-wife of an abusive alcoholic, which is the better choice? The man who doesn't currently drink yet has a history of alcohol abuse or the guy that currently drinks but does not abuse it or people and never has?

But I get the point that both are deal breakers for certain people in starting relationships. Some are rational and some aren't.

There are plenty of men who don't want to marry a fat chick who will pass over a woman that they believe has the propensity to become fat too....fat mother or healthy appetite or whatever.

The woman not wanting to date someone who drinks, isn't afraid that they will become an alcoholic but rather that they will get drunk at some point. If you have lived with an alcoholic, drunk once or twice IS as bad and something that you don't want to risk. The state of being out of control and inebriated is usually what is unacceptable.

 

[ThisIsMe123]

There are plenty of men who don't want to marry a fat chick who will pass over a woman that they believe has the propensity to become fat too....fat mother or healthy appetite or whatever.

The woman not wanting to date someone who drinks, isn't afraid that they will become an alcoholic but rather that they will get drunk at some point. If you have lived with an alcoholic, drunk once or twice IS as bad and something that you don't want to risk. The state of being out of control and inebriated is usually what is unacceptable.

We're talking about a single drink with dinner here, not drunkenness.

 

[blackribbon]

We're talking about a single drink with dinner here, not drunkenness.

How does a person know how many drinks a person has drank if they are holding an alcoholic beverage in their hand. What you see is a person who is drinking. In medicine we are taught to assume twice the amount a person claims to drink.

If she can't tolerate being around drunks, she is safer to limit herself to non-drinkers.

 

[ThisIsMe123]

How does a person know how many drinks a person has drank if they are holding an alcoholic beverage in their hand. What you see is a person who is drinking. In medicine we are taught to assume twice the amount a person claims to drink.

If she can't tolerate being around drunks, she is safer to limit herself to non-drinkers.

Why are you so quick to label them "drunks"?

 

[sunlover1]

I'm sure there are a dozen better forums to post this in, but I don't want a deep theological debate and someone with a theology degree judging me and pointing out how well I don't know the Bible...

I view this forum more as a singles Bible study so I thought I'd share an observation.

I was visiting with my parents at their home. My brother came over with his new fiance and my sister was up visiting, so the whole family was together, which is rare.

My sister and I are the only ones who attend church. My parents say grace occasionally, but haven't gone to church in 30 years. My brother sporadically attended, but he and his fiance refuse to go to church anymore.

It's a touchy subject, faith is. So my sister and I try to gingerly bring it up around the family to encourage discussion.

Last night, my sister and I were talking about the churches we now attend and my dad mentioned that the last church my parent's attended had it written in their statement that ANY alcohol consumption was a sin since Jesus only drank unfermented grape juice. It actually said that.

Then my brother started sharing about one of his friends Christian parents who are absolutely militant about alcohol and being so ridiculous that the mother refused to even touch a bottle of wine while helping clean up after a wedding reception.

My brother, his fiance, and my dad all used the examples of Christians being so ridiculously uptight and embattled over the subject of alcohol as proof that churches are filled with ridiculous people that can't even read the Bible and see that Jesus and his disciples drank fermented wine. They all drink, as do my sister and I.

I have rarely seen my dad ever drink to the point of drunkenness, maybe twice in the 30 years I've observed him drinking. He's got a better track record than I do. Never seen mom intoxicated. My brother is a Detective, so he tries to practice moderation as well.

My point is that none of them are in violation of Biblical standards in relation to alcohol, yet they perceive they are being judged due to a large, vocal number of teetotaling Christians who not only harshly judge others who drink, but actually include it in their church doctrinal statement.

Just my random Bible study subject of the day...

BTW, my Bible study had a celebratory meeting last week and we had both sparkling cider and actual champagne. It was about half and half for those who had champagne and those who didn't.

IMO, it's the law group who hurt the spread of the gospel by trying to attain their own righteousness through abstinence of this or that or another thing.
Bewitched and trying to bewitch others too, like the foolish galatians did.
They give Christianity a bad name.
All things in moderation is biblical, but of course not all understand that right off the bat.
Letting God lead, since no one comes to the Father except the Spirit leads them anyhow.. it's not by might or power but by His Spirit...
So if GOD is leading someone to Himself, and using you as an instrument, He sure will let you know if the craft beer (IPA please) in your hand is a hindrance. Then you can act accordingly.
Bottom line is let God's Spirit lead us 24/7
I love a good beer. If I have it in the house, I'll have one every night. And i drink it while having fellowship with Father.
An aside: often when non Christians over indulge, they wax philosophical and like to talk about Jesus..

 

[Servant68]

IMO, it's the law group who hurt the spread of the gospel by trying to attain their own righteousness through abstinence of this or that or another thing.
Bewitched and trying to bewitch others too, like the foolish galatians did.
They give Christianity a bad name.
All things in moderation is biblical, but of course not all understand that right off the bat.
Letting God lead, since no one comes to the Father except the Spirit leads them anyhow.. it's not by might or power but by His Spirit...
So if GOD is leading someone to Himself, and using you as an instrument, He sure will let you know if the craft beer (IPA please) in your hand is a hindrance. Then you can act accordingly.
Bottom line is let God's Spirit lead us 24/7
I love a good beer. If I have it in the house, I'll have one every night. And i drink it while having fellowship with Father.
An aside: often when non Christians over indulge, they wax philosophical and like to talk about Jesus..

I agree with everything you said, except the part about IPAs...

Too hoppy for me; I like a good stout or amber ale.