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CHRISTIANOPHOBIA - anti Christian hatred.

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SuperMama

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Recognition of 'Christianophobia' sought
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From combined dispatches
PARIS — A Vatican diplomatic campaign is trying to have "Christianophobia" recognized as an evil that is equal to hatred of Jews and Muslims.
The discreet drive, which the Roman Catholic Church first mentioned publicly on Friday, seeks official recognition by the United Nations and other international organizations of discrimination against and persecution of Christians.
The Holy See is pressing the point despite two setbacks this year — when the European Union refused to refer to the continent's Christian heritage in its new constitution and when it turned down a new commissioner because he was a conservative Catholic. The campaign has had more success at the U.N. Human Rights Commission in Geneva, a body that was sharply criticized in a U.N. report last week. A panel named by Secretary-General Kofi Annan said the commission "suffers from a credibility deficit" after admitting countries such as Cuba, Libya and Sudan as members.
Nevertheless, when discussing religious bias, the body now speaks of "anti-Semitism, Islamophobia and Christianophobia" — terms that the General Assembly in New York is due to approve later this month.
This campaign has been so discreet that the term was hardly known until the Vatican's foreign minister, Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo, said on Friday that the Holy See had insisted that the United Nations include it along with anti-Semitism and Islamophobia.
"It should be recognized that the war against terrorism, even though necessary, had as one of its side effects the spread of 'Christianophobia' in vast areas of the globe," he told a U.S.-organized conference on religious freedom in Rome.
Objections have been raised, however, that it is unfair to single out some religions for protection while ignoring others, such as Buddhists, Hindus, Confucians or followers of traditional religions in Africa.
The State Department complained on those grounds when the Congress passed legislation in October requiring it to monitor and report specifically on anti-Semitism around the world.
"There is always a risk with these kinds of labels," said Peter Weiderud, international affairs director of the World Council of Churches (WCC), which also is based in Geneva and unites more than 340 Protestant and Orthodox churches around the globe.
Questions also have been raised about the coinage of a new word. In the United States, a major evangelical Protestant publisher and a prominent religious rights activist told Reuters news agency that they had never heard the term.
The Vatican has suggested the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, based in Vienna, Austria, include Christianophobia as an evil to be monitored, diplomats there say. But the OSCE annual session under way in Sofia, Bulgaria, is unlikely to fully back such a move.
"We don't want any more terms ending in 'phobia,' " a diplomat there said. "Once you single out something beyond racism and xenophobia, you have to list so many of them."
Doudou Diene, the U.N. special rapporteur on racism and xenophobia, said specifying certain religions was acceptable if the universal nature of religious discrimination also was noted.
He said the problem arose because some countries tried "to put a hierarchy among different forms of discrimination."
Vatican officials privately said they could not stand aside while Judaism and Islam got special attention at the United Nations, which demands regular status reports from member countries on issues officially recognized as problems of international concern.
Christian minorities are persecuted in predominantly Muslim nations. Suspected Christian converts from Islam are killed in nations such as Pakistan and Iraq and throughout the Middle East and South Asia.
Churches also have been bombed, and missionaries are targeted for assassination.
"I think there is Christianophobia out there, and it's not recognized," said Drew Christiansen, deputy editor of America magazine in New York. "Christians have a sense of being a privileged majority, so we don't see ourselves as victims."
But even he had to confess that he had not heard the term "Christianophobia" until the U.N. Human Rights Commission invited him to discuss the issue at a meeting last month.
http://washingtontimes.com/world/20041209-122008-5991r.htm

Have you seen really anti Christian behaviour. I have recently and didnt realise it was a new problem. Well new as in, the continuation of persecution. But as this is more than not interested, or not agreeing, or rejecting God. But actively squaring off with, baiting and trying to provoke Christians. Refering to them as stupid, bigots, mindless etc. I have felt the wrath of the gay community (I so do not want to debate gay issues). But this is a big deal and its getting worse. When some places refuse to let children say Merry Christmas to each other as school, promoting happy holidays instead - well its taking P.C. to the another level of extreme.
 

fejao

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SuperMama said:
http://washingtontimes.com/world/20041209-122008-5991r.htm

Have you seen really anti Christian behaviour. I have recently and didnt realise it was a new problem. Well new as in, the continuation of persecution. But as this is more than not interested, or not agreeing, or rejecting God. But actively squaring off with, baiting and trying to provoke Christians. Refering to them as stupid, bigots, mindless etc. I have felt the wrath of the gay community (I so do not want to debate gay issues). But this is a big deal and its getting worse. When some places refuse to let children say Merry Christmas to each other as school, promoting happy holidays instead - well its taking P.C. to the another level of extreme.
Well the Lord did say that we would be persecuted for him and I am sure we have all experienced some persecution as Christians. I do feel however that a lot of our persecution is not due to being Christians but due to being marred representations of Christ. We profess to be the living examples of Christ yet, us Christians portray a horrible broken image of the Lord. Our tv stations do not exude the love, kindness nor the meekness of the Lord but that of intolerance, look at me and sometimes blatant hate its no wonder we have persecution. You may not want to debate gay issues, therefore you should not have mentioned the subject knowing how hotly this issue is discussed here. The gay community has such an aversion to Christians and the church, not because of Christ but because of the horrible picture Christians paint of Christ to them, and bascially its our own fault not Christs, not your dogs but ours. If we were true images of Christ I am sure the gay community would embrase our lovley Jesus as a lot do, many would come back to their first love [Jesus]. However because we constantly tell gay people that they will never make the mark, that they are not worthy, that our Jesus cannot accept them until they are "like us", we sell them a lie. Our relationship with God is not dependent on trying harder, giving more, thats a lie. There are no mile markers in our Christian walk, because we cannot be more beloved, more redeemed, or more saved than we are right now [refering to Christians]. Sometimes we deserve the labels of bigots, pharasees, prejudiced. Our goal as in everything is to be an example of Jesus, I am sure the picture would be different to what it is just now, if we did truly look and act like him!


Fejao x
 
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ahab

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A very good post Supermama,



Of course the church hasn’t been squeeky clean in the past and many wars have been fought in the name of religion. A lot of Christianity has been spread by the sword in the past. But we see from Jesus that persecution is to be expected, in fact towards the end it will increase greatly.



Of course Satan is able to destroy lives without a religious connection, by famine and depression and all kinds of things.

However it is obvious from the secularisation of the media and politics in Europe (and take a look at ‘After the Ball’ and some of the tactics of the pro-gay lobby), that anti-religious feelings emerge more strongly.
It is also true that when we live as the world does we don’t get ‘attacked’ but when we live as Christians should we will get attacked. Of course we as Christians often fail to demonstrate the love of Jesus by faith in action, but we must consider that Jesus wasn’t crucified because of what He did, the healings, but because of what He taught and claimed. Many followed Him because of miracles but many turned away when they heard His teachings.
As to the you know what topic, we must also remember is that Jesus speaks for Himself in the scriptures and by the Holy Spirit. It isn’t the Church or Christians that are primarily painting a bad image to the gay community, it’s often the gay community who are managing to paint the picture for us. Jesus is inclusive of all people including adulterous heterosexuals and practicing homosexuals, its the adultery and the same-sex we are to overcome. There are many many celibate homosexuals in the church who are Christians, Christianity is therefore not anti homosexual, but may well be anti gay. However the scriptures do have all kinds of severe warnings in them and so does for example the Koran. The difficulty in Christianity is that the Bible doesn’t mention homosexuality but same sex acts, so in order to say homosexuality is a sin, homosexuality needs to be defined. Many heterosexuals also have to accept celibacy as they are unable to get married and many chose celibacy for the Kingdom just as homosexuals do. Much of the gay community however are not going to accept Jesus if they have to give up same-sex sex.

If our goal as in everything is to be an example of Jesus, then living holy lives is what we attempt rather than abandon .
 
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fejao

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Blessings to you my brother Ahab ! I am not going to even try to answer all the half truths in your post regarding homosexuals and Christianity, I am choosing to be an example of our Lord and show love. May God bless you super-abundantly my brother in Christ! May he rule in all your life.

Fejao x
 
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SuperMama

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There is no mention of the gay community in the origonal article. I wasnt aware that is was a hotly debated topic here, although comon sence said it was likely to be. I dont want to debate it coz it just gets people riled up and be unpleasant to each other. I only mentioned it as this was where I have had experiences of Christianophobia and had I not at least refered to it I was likely to be asked what I thought may have provoked the attack.

There are threads I am sure to agrue the merits or lack of re homosexuality. This thread is specifically about Christianophobia. This anti Christian hatred is new to me - although not at all new. Just seems to have a new name. I have of course experienced the people who dont want to hear, or disagree when you witness - but rarely have I met outright hostility towards Christians to the point where they are hunted for sport more or less. And it is only interesting in that it seems to becoming more prevelent and sanctioned by various govt's under legislation or proposed legislation.

My country in the past few weeks has been devided and hotly debating gay marriage - and we now have a type of gay marriage called a "Civil Union". While the law is passed it is a few months of coming into effect. But it has been this debate and lead up to the law change which saw lobby groups clash, talk back radio run red hot and newspapers contain endless letters to the editor on the matter which in turn has led to a new P.C. topic here called HATE SPEECH. The essence is that hate speech legislation may well prevent a pastor in his church teaching from the pulpit anything that may constitute hate in one groups eyes. He would be prosecutable for insighting hate even if he does not promote hate in anyway. And it is an encroachment upon freedom of speech.

Christianophobia + Political Correctness = Supression of Religious Freedom.

And I still contend this is not about gay matters per sey, (although it encompasses this).
 
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psalms 91

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while there is not outright persecution in this country YET i feel it is coming. yes it has increased lately and it will only get worse i am afraid. prophecy tells me that. jesus was persecuted so can we expect anything less. the important thing is where and how firm do we stand with the lord. there is a storm coming, will you pas through it or be destroyed by it.
 
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fejao

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ahab said:
As far as the gay issues are concerned it was mentioned in the second post. As far as anti-Christian feelings and rhetoric is concerned in the UK and Europe as opposed the USA, the gay community and the public in general are vehemently anti all Christians who stand on the scriptural truth.

So in the UK it is one of the main causes. :)
Ahab I dont mean to be rude, but you point out in my post that I did not support my point. However here you make some very bold and sweeping statements without any support.

May I add that one of the foremost gay youth group in the UK actually employed a gay christian so that they could reach and minister to gay Christian youth. They are also in the process of creating a resource that could be used nationwide to help lgbt Christians. They recently had a consulation with the public and their shareholders and one of their objectives of this year is to further develop this resource and have active dialogue with the church to help their lgbt youth, which was supported by the aforementioned meeting (doesnt sound like they are anti-christian). I myself went to this group to help reconcile being a Christian and gay, they did not push me in one direction but gave me information from all side of the debate, something that really impressed me, being that it was an lgbt organisation. (I have not posted any link cause its in contravention of forum rules).

Also I have never seen any leaflets in the gay pubs or clubs that are in anyway anti-Christian. All my gay friends know that I am a Christian and respect me a lot because of my beliefs and I am sure the Lord is using me to minister to their lives. Many of my friends ask me many questions about God and the church and being that many of my gay friends are Christians, I would not say they are anti-christian.

What I do see is a lot of misinformation and lies being spead by the church and blatant anti-homosexual retoric. However to thoes Christians who believe that homosexuality is wrong they see it as justifyed and correct to uphold the morals of the bible in application to homosexuality. They say that they "love the sinner but hate the sin". First of all, it is usually reserved for the "worst" sinners (i.e. serial killers and homos). Nobody uses it for people who commit minor infractions like pride, envy, gluttony, lust, anger, greed or laziness. It always reminds me of the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector. The Pharisee is lauding his many virtues, thanking God that he is not like other men -- robbers, evildoers, adulterers, etc... The other problem with this attitude is that the people on the receiving end of this "love" seldom perceive any love at all. What seems to happen more often than not is that this kind of love is always colored by disgust over the person's actions and reads as something entirely different from love.

Francis Schaeffer said that because man is man, he is to be loved at all costs. This is the core message of Jesus' teaching -- loving our neighbor. It is completely separate from any consideration of a person's sinfulness. Jesus was the perfect example of loving people without conditions. I simply don't see where He was concerned with making sure people understood that while he loved them as a person, he absolutely abhorred their wicked, depraved lifestyles. However it must be said that there are extreemist on each side of the fence, giving a bad name to a multitude this we must recognise.

Here are some quotes from famous Christian evangelist, who are regulars on our Christian tv stations, this is what is being broadcast to millions of people worldwide. Who says the church isnt giving itself a bad name.

Quotes

Jerry Falwell - "AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals."

"AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharoah's chariotters."

"Are you with me? In other words, because of the fact that American Airlines has been marketing to gay and lesbian vacationers, they are somehow doing some grave disservice to traditional values. I guess God flies Delta."

-----------------

Fred Phelps - Need I say more?

-----------------

Benny Hinn - "
Orlando Christian Center, Dec. 31st, 1989.​

"The Lord also tells me to tell you in the mid 90's, about '94-'95, no later than that, God will destroy the homosexual community of America. [audience applauds] But He will not destroy it - with what many minds have thought Him to be, He will destroy it with fire. And many will turn and be saved, and many will rebel and be destroyed."


-------------------

Pat Robertson/Jerry Falwell - "I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen'." (Blaming the aforementioned for the Sept, 11 attacks)
 
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tulc

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bill16652 said:
while there is not outright persecution in this country YET i feel it is coming. yes it has increased lately and it will only get worse i am afraid. prophecy tells me that. jesus was persecuted so can we expect anything less. the important thing is where and how firm do we stand with the lord. there is a storm coming, will you pas through it or be destroyed by it.
We are talking about America, right? On what do you base this? Seriously? What I see is a form of Christianity that is demanding we Christrians have special rights. That our beliefs should be the only ones heard or allowed to influance our country. I've been a commited Christian (well some think I should be commited but that's another thread :sorry: ) for well over 30 years now and I don't see Christians being persecuted here in America, not in the sense of real persecution. To claim otherwise is a slap at our sisters and brothers facing real persecution around the world. (IMHO)
tulc(persecuted for his face more then his faith) :cool:
 
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sanaa

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yes i agree with tulc . its not persecution. its just that christians shouldnt get any special priviliges over other religions and all beliefs and religions should be treated equally. if u cry about how minorities are treated in other countries then make sure that minorities are treated fair in ur own country and noone has special exclusive priviliges
 
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Isis-Astoroth

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Every religion is persecuted somewhere, suppressed somewhere. We shouldn't give in, and while we have the right to believe what we want, we don't have the right to stop anybody else from believing what they want. I don't think though that passing laws is going to help, it is just going to suppress the beliefs of others. I don't think this issue is one that can be resolved easily, if it can be resolved at all. People grow up with prejudices, some of which they never shake. While the UN may be giving other religions preference, it is not everywhere, and the actions of the people in UN countries may not reflect the actions of the UN itself.
 
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SuperMama

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I think you will find that the Vatican is concerned with naming the anti Christian attitudes which as fast becoming P.C. Rather than all Christiandom being concerned with naming it.

We know why it happens. The minute you stand up for God you will offend someone. The more you stand up for God the more you will offend. And the more strongly you oppose that which God comdemns the more strongly the defence of those who disagree with God.

Why would fixing persecution be the concern? The only way to fix it would be to alter standing up for God which would mean watering down his message and I am not about to betray God in this way. A great many Christians have accomadated this by altering God's text's, twisting scripture, playing down the consequences of defying, avoiding and ignoring God. This is done to appease the mass's (but justified by saying it 'reaches' the mass's) and does so at the expence of being true to God and your faith.

So we have very very liberal churches where anything goes with acceptance of sexual pervesion, mimicry of the world in terms of music, dress and popular behaviour - all so as to attract the world to services that offer little biblically to the new believer.

Not a road I would willingly walk.

So I sometimes offend people. But I would rather this than offend God.
 
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Antoninus Verus

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Why would fixing persecution be the concern?
Oh gee I dunno. Maybe so the problem can be fixed

The minute you stand up for God you will offend someone. The more you stand up for God the more you will offend. And the more strongly you oppose that which God comdemns the more strongly the defence of those who disagree with God.
I doubt thats true. Its where people want to put God. I will agree that the Pledge of Aliegence case is a touch over-board, but people are trying to use God to define our whole society. IE: Abortion, gay marraige, politics, censorship etc etc. And people dont want that. I dont want that. I think religion belongs in two places, three depending on your religion. 1. In your home 2. In your heart and 3. In your church (or temple or wherever). Once you take religion outside those areas, it makes people uncomfortable and angry.

Ive heard people complain "Why do we have In God We Trust on our money? It shouldnt be there!" I dont give a frog's fat ass WHATS on my money, if it buys stuff, it could have two elephants doing coke on it for all I care. Part of the problem is that its too easy for people to scrap and moan about things anymore. They get carried away and just dont know when to shut up about it.

And I seriously doubt theres a problem with anti-Christian discrimination or hatred. A couple of disgruntled sociopaths in Bumsville Idaho is probably as organized as it gets when it comes to anti-Christianity. People are so fast to yell out "DISCRIMINATION" these days. Pagans do it occasionally and it really chaps my ass when one of them sounds off about religious discrimination. When your boss fires you because of your religion or when you get evicted from your appartment/house because of your religion, when you loose your child to social servies (And yes this has happend) because of your religion, THATS discrimination. When someone spits in your face or burns your car up or shoots up your house or throws a rock at you while yelling "YOU WICKED (Insert religion here)" THATS hatred.
 
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SuperMama

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in home, in heart and in church is insufficient.

4) In your life - in your daily living. 5) In everything you do and how you conduct yourself.

God stands against abortion, gay marriage and the other so called victimless crimes. And yet people will vent their angst at me for saying so. Dont shoot the messenger, this wasnt my idea, I'm just passing it along cause He told me to. What you do with the information is your business as you have a free will.

I have also mentioned to folks the white witch in The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe turned creatures into stone. Dont beat me over the head for this matter - take it up with C.S.Lewis.
 
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tulc

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God stands against abortion, gay marriage and the other so called victimless crimes. And yet people will vent their angst at me for saying so. Dont shoot the messenger, this wasnt my idea, I'm just passing it along cause He told me to. What you do with the information is your business as you have a free will.
Well having it in your home is one thing, trying to put it into everyone elses home is another thing. That might be what others find offensive? (IMHO)
tulc( :) )
 
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